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Celtic Minstrel

Bladbase.exs errors

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It's well-known that there are some errors in the default bladbase – there's even a list of them around somewhere. (Though I can't remember where, and I'm pretty sure it was incomplete.)

 

So if anyone has an error in the bladbase to report, or any inconsistency with Exile 3's item, terrains, or monsters, this is a place to put it.

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Is there a list of what was fixed in that bladbase? And are we certain that no errors were missed?

 

This gives me an idea... it'd be nice to add a function to the editor to clear all items or monsters...

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As for the monster picture 160 causing the problems, it may actually start at the Dragon icon, #140. I have just run the unsigned char m_pict[200], unsigned char m_pic_index[200], unsigned char m_pic_index_x[200] and unsigned char m_pic_index_y[200] data structures through a spreadsheet. I can follow it up to here, 95 is a Vahnatai graphic slot.

Dragon 177 95 1 1

Hydra 178 160 2 2

Pyrohydra 179 160 2 2

Cryohydra 180 171 1 1

Baby Hydra 181 172 1 1

Pixie 182 173 1 1

Unicorn 183 174 1 1

Kobold 184 160 2 2

Centaur 185 3 1 1

Centaur Chief 186 5 1 1

Blood Beast 187 173 1 1

Unused 188 143 1 1

First number is the listing number from 0 thru 199, next is the slot number, then comes the width of the relevant graphic and finally is the height. 20 slots per graphic sheet, 10 sheets means 200 slots, some of which are empty.

Edit:

Some of this Scenario.cpp data array stuff seems not to make any difference if you alter it, like Cleric or Mage levels. It seems that the errors go away when you go edit a different monster then return to the first monster.

 

Corrected last three line of m_pict[200]:

160,164,166,168,170,61,74,160,183,182,

184,185,192,191,196,181,181,197,175,175,

175,175,175,175,175,175,175,175,175,175,

 

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I should add the links i used to find bug to fix.

 

First, Alcritas' Things that don't works : http://www.geocities.com/blyceum/DForum/023.html

 

ADoS previous link

 

Lew Titteron's Still More Things that Don't Works : http://www.geocities.com/blyceum/DForum/034.html

 

The first link has a load of things to fix in the official bladbase.exs (alien blade, knowledge brew, ...).

 

Hope it helps,

Chokboyz

Edited by Celtic Minstrel
Updated dead links

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Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

2. The Blood Beast is level zero. This should be fixed if you intend on using it in your scenario.
What level should the Blood Beast be, then?

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff
4. If you look in the graphics for the game, you will see that there are two different Alien Beast graphics. However, the graphic will be shown as a Mind Crystal in both the editor and the actual Blades of Exile. This can be worked around if you want to use the smaller alien beast graphic. Simply copy the graphic into the custom graphics file for your scenario, and the graphic can then be used.
This bug has been fixed in both versions. I also set the normal Alien Beast monster to use the formerly unavailable small Alien Beast graphic.

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff
13. There are two Brew of Lethe items, which are exactly the same, except one has a value of 500, while the other has a value of 50.
Presumably we should nuke one of them. What is the proper value for Brew of Lethe, and what should the other one be replaced with?


Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff
17. Monster #121, Black Shade, has the wrong graphic.
I gave it the normal Shade graphic. In truth, though, it doesn't matter much, since you can never see the graphic in-game.

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff
19. The Spiny Worm is a beast, when it should be a bug. Also, its Attack type#2,3 is Claws, even though it doesn’t have any claws.
I changed attack 2/3 to Stings – is that appropriate?

Originally Posted By: Lew Titteron
The Shield Mace is categorized as a shield, instead of a mace. As a result it becomes one of the game’s most powerful shields, and has no encumberment! It’s fairly cheap to boot! This item, like the Alien Blade, should be changed or removed.
I made it a 1-handed weapon – should it be 2-handed instead?

Originally Posted By: Alcritas

* Inverted/Skewed Values — many things in the BOE editor have the wrong value to start off with. Crystal Wand and Prismatic Wand are inverted, Brew of Knowledge acts like a Weak Energy Potion. The Helm of Speed is set to power 0 (meaning no benefit). The SFX for Teleportal and Lightning Blast are switched. Many monsters are this way as well — Mauve Slimes start out the game as level 3 (summoning) creatures, quite a waste of a level 7 spell. Worgs and Wolves start out as friendly. One of the Unicorns begins the game as reptile. (Thanks to ‘A Short Term Effect’ for pointing this one out.)
* The Amulet of Life Saving starts out, in the Bladbase scenario, with a whopping zero charges.
Okay, so how many charges should the Amulet have, and what strength should the Helm of Speed have? Also, what is the correct ability (+strength) for the Brew of Knowledge?

To clarify... Crystal Wand should cast Dispel Undead and Prismatic Wand should cast Ravage Spirit? Should they have an ability strength > 0?

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
What level should the Blood Beast be, then?


Tarl Roger Kudrick attempted to reverse-engineer the methods used by Jeff to set a monster's level, and concluded that the Blood Beast should be level 24. I'd say it should be higher: about level 28-32 seems right.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
Presumably we should nuke one of them. What is the proper value for Brew of Lethe, and what should the other one be replaced with?


The Brew of Lethe is a harmful item (drains experience), so it should probably have a low value. 50 seems right.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Lew Titteron
The Shield Mace is categorized as a shield, instead of a mace. As a result it becomes one of the game’s most powerful shields, and has no encumberment! It’s fairly cheap to boot! This item, like the Alien Blade, should be changed or removed.
I made it a 1-handed weapon – should it be 2-handed instead?


No, 1-handed is fine. It's now just a mace that gives a reasonable defensive bonus.

Quote:
Okay, so how many charges should the Amulet have, and what strength should the Helm of Speed have? Also, what is the correct ability (+strength) for the Brew of Knowledge?


The Lifesaver Amulet doesn't actually need charges in order to function, so it can be left as is. The Helm of Speed's ability strength can probably be set to a low value like 2 or 4; if it's too high, the user will end up with a haste effect on them most of the time instead of just occasionally. Knowledge Brew should add skill points; I believe its ability strength should be 2, if it isn't already.

Quote:
To clarify... Crystal Wand should cast Dispel Undead and Prismatic Wand should cast Ravage Spirit? Should they have an ability strength > 0?


Yes and yes.

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Originally Posted By: Thuryl
Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
What level should the Blood Beast be, then?


Tarl Roger Kudrick attempted to reverse-engineer the methods used by Jeff to set a monster's level, and concluded that the Blood Beast should be level 24. I'd say it should be higher: about level 28-32 seems right.
I'll just average it and go with level 30.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
Presumably we should nuke one of them. What is the proper value for Brew of Lethe, and what should the other one be replaced with?


The Brew of Lethe is a harmful item (drains experience), so it should probably have a low value. 50 seems right.
Okay, so what should be done with the other one? Replace it with something? If so, what? Or simply clear it? (Note: this question is addressed to anyone, not just Thuryl.)

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Quote:
Okay, so how many charges should the Amulet have, and what strength should the Helm of Speed have? Also, what is the correct ability (+strength) for the Brew of Knowledge?


The Lifesaver Amulet doesn't actually need charges in order to function, so it can be left as is.
What? I though the Lifesaving ability deducts a charge when it saves one's life?

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
The Helm of Speed's ability strength can probably be set to a low value like 2 or 4; if it's too high, the user will end up with a haste effect on them most of the time instead of just occasionally.
Okay, once again I'll average and go with 3.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
Knowledge Brew should add skill points; I believe its ability strength should be 2, if it isn't already.
So its strength is already fine, it just needed the ability changed.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl
Quote:
To clarify... Crystal Wand should cast Dispel Undead and Prismatic Wand should cast Ravage Spirit? Should they have an ability strength > 0?


Yes and yes.
Then what should that ability strength be? Because both are currently at 0.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
What? I though the Lifesaving ability deducts a charge when it saves one's life?


Nope. Lifesaving items are always destroyed when used, regardless of how many charges they have.

Quote:
Then what should that ability strength be? Because both are currently at 0.


Beats the hell out of me. Test a few values and see what works.

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Here are some uncorrected errors in the present bladbase.exs :

  • Worgs and Wolves start out as friendly
  • The black Unicorns begin the game as reptile (is it a beast ? magical beast ?)
  • The default Bladbase Scale Necklace summons Empties (working Empties). Should summon Giant Lizards ?
  • Naga, has paralysis touch, is this correct?
  • Mauve slime designated as summon type 3 monster, should be type 1 ?
  • Gold unicorn, has paralysis touch, is this correct?
  • Item #220, the Helm of Speed, has the speed ability, but in all the other Exile games it had the occasional haste ability.
  • Protection items (rings) have an ability strength set to 0 (and even no ability set, should it be protection ?).
  • Amber Periapt has an ability strength (poison protection) set to 0. Should it be 4 like the basic necklace ?
  • Although the Ogrish Guantlets and the Giantish Guantlets (Items #227 &

    228) have different ability strenghts, they still effect your characters in

    the same way. The only difference between them is that the Giantish

    Guantlets cost more. The Giant Strength ability (Along with several other abilities like Skill) is not effected at all by its ability strength, instead, its item level is its ability strength.

Any comment on how to best correct them (or if they should be left alone) is welcome ...

If you find (or think of) another error don't hesitate to mention it (some errors above were present in the file of the second post).

 

Chokboyz

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Just checking – is this in the "Blades of Exile Base" in the repository?

 

Worgs and Wolves should be Hostile A by default, I think.

 

I'm not sure whether Black Unicorns should be a beast or magical creature; I personally think Beast would do.

 

I'm pretty sure the Scale Necklace should summon Giant Lizards.

 

I'm not sure about the Naga, but paralysis touch doesn't seem right.

 

Mauves slime should not be a level 3 summon. Making it a level 1 summon seems fine. Does anyone know if it's summonable by Weak Summoning in Exile III?

 

I highly doubt that paralysis touch is correct for the Gold Unicorn; unfortunately we have nothing to compare it to. On the other hand, I think it's probably safe to assume that it has the same ability as the Naga (whatever that is).

 

I think the Helm of Speed should be changed.

 

I'm not sure about protection rings. I'm not even sure they're broken – don't they use the Protection field which is also used for shields?

 

Amber Periapt shouldn't have 0 ability strength, but I'm not sure what it should be. 4 seems reasonable, but a little higher might make sense too.

 

As for the Ogrish/Giantish Gauntlets, I think that's a game bug rather than a bladbase bug.

 

 

All bladbase errors should be corrected as soon as it is confirmed that they really are errors. There is no chance of compatibility problems by changing the bladbase.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
Just checking – is this in the "Blades of Exile Base" in the repository?

Yes, most (if not all) of them are ...

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
Does anyone know if it's summonable by Weak Summoning in Exile III

I haven't been able to summon a mauve slime using any summon spell (excluding capture soul/simulacrum of course). But i kinda remember summoning mauve slimes while playing Exile III, so i'm not totally sure ...

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
I'm not even sure they're broken – don't they use the Protection field which is also used for shields

Yes, they do. Like you, i'm wondering if they possess the Protection ability at all ...

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
As for the Ogrish/Giantish Gauntlets, I think that's a game bug rather than a bladbase bug.

Should we fix that ? (then again, all scenarios using those items would need to be fixed ...)

I agree with you on the rest of the errors. smile

Chokboyz

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I think the Giant Strength bug should be fixed in the new format, but it would break old scenarios.

 

Rings of Protection have never had abilities except the flat Protection field, dating all the way back to E1.

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So, rings of protection don't get the protection ability – they just use the protection field, meaning they block damage in much the same way as a shield.

 

How would fixing the Giant Strength bug break old scenarios? It doesn't seem that way to me.

 

I also remember summoning Mauve Slimes in Exile III.

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
How would fixing the Giant Strength bug break old scenarios?

Surely scenarios designers would have been aware of the glitch and used the item level field to specify the item ability strengh. Fixing it would requires checking every item affected in every scenario, to see if the ability strength needs to put back in the correct field ... Or maybe no one used those items wink

A few corrections done to the Bladbase.exs :
  • Wolves and Worgs are Hostile A by default.
  • The Scale Necklace now summons a Giant Lizard (like in Exile III ...)
  • Mauves slime are now a type 1 summon.
  • For consistency, the Helm of Speed now gives Occasional Haste.
  • Amber Periapt now have an Ability Strengh of 4.
Protection items and Nagas have been left untouched as there was no error after all.

Remaining open questions :
  • Should Black Unicorns be Beast ? Magical Beast ?
  • Should Gold Unicorns keeps their paralysis touch ?
I wonder if there's a way to see items properties in the Exile III files (hexediting ?) ... That would give us mostly correct default values.

Chokboyz

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I don't think anyone was aware of the Giant Strength bug until now; Giant Strength items in scenarios were pretty uncommon, and I don't think anyone examined the behaviour of the ability very closely. Changing the behaviour might create an overpowered or underpowered item in some scenario somewhere, but I don't think it's a big deal.

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A bug I remember pretty well: When you manage to gain cash above the limit, simply by selling stuff or gaining a lot cash at once, it changes into negative cash, which uses every newly gained cash to put you into the positives again.

 

 

Another one: Monsters which have 0 - 50 armor and are "Invulnerable" can be still damaged when you either have an extremely high damage attack (I think) or another monster with a rather high dice compared to sides attack. Of course, a high dice attack is made to be armor piercing or the like due to a higher chance to hit, but it shouldn't pierce invulnerability. The invulnerability effect that can be used on player does not have this weakness if I remember right.

 

This does not work with anything else than melee combat, but the (totally forgot the name) electrical secondary attack that can be used on weapons on-hit can also deal damage to Invulnerable enemies last I checked.

 

 

 

Now about the bladbase.exs (Classic Windows 1.0 Repository Version)

 

About the post 2 posts about this one, I believe Worgs were supposed to be automatically Hostile A.

 

Also, why does the Brew of Lethe has a deletion note next to it? It appeared as a regular item at least in Exile 3 and thus has not really a reason for deletion.

 

If it's due to the second Brew of Lethe further down the list, we should replace the first item with another instead of just deleting it. My suggestion would be a modificated Skribbane Herb.

 

 

Some REALLY minor errors in bladbase.exs:

 

Name Changes:

Item #225 to Platinum Bar

Item #326 to Gold Necklace

Item #332 to Silver Necklace

Item #333 to Uranium Bar

Item #334 to Gold Bar

 

Item #194, Ebony Lizard usually summoned Basilisks, not Giant Lizards, methinks.

Item #274, Lightning Rods has an ability value of 20 instead of 10 as maximum.

 

All hammer weapons (Bronze Hammer, Iron Hammer...) are displayed as maces in the Bladbase file, yet were changed to the new "blacksmith hammer" icon in all three standard scenarios.

 

 

Monster #83, Drake uses the Bear Picture.

Monster #186, I believe the Dark Wyrm had a certain powerful darkness breath but does not have it anymore.

Monster #189, Unused has a Slith Warrior Picture instead of the standard unused picture.

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Originally Posted By: Crynsos
A bug I remember pretty well: When you manage to gain cash above the limit, simply by selling stuff or gaining a lot cash at once, it changes into negative cash, which uses every newly gained cash to put you into the positives again.

Already fixed some times ago smile

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Another one: Monsters which have 0 - 50 armor and are "Invulnerable" can be still damaged when you either have an extremely high damage attack (I think) or another monster with a rather high dice compared to sides attack. Of course, a high dice attack is made to be armor piercing or the like due to a higher chance to hit, but it shouldn't pierce invulnerability. The invulnerability effect that can be used on player does not have this weakness if I remember right.

This does not work with anything else than melee combat, but the (totally forgot the name) electrical secondary attack that can be used on weapons on-hit can also deal damage to Invulnerable enemies last I checked.

I think this has already been debated : the "invulnerability" trait is really a "super armor" (after all it's first name was Rentar-Ihnro) : physical damages are divided by 10 and magical damages are divided by 100 (if i remember correctly). There may be a suggestion to actually implement a true invulnerability trait but, besides a name change, this one will remains untouched (backward compatibility). If i remember well, that is.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
About the post 2 posts about this one, I believe Worgs were supposed to be automatically Hostile A.

They are.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Also, why does the Brew of Lethe has a deletion note next to it? It appeared as a regular item at least in Exile 3 and thus has not really a reason for deletion.

If it's due to the second Brew of Lethe further down the list, we should replace the first item with another instead of just deleting it. My suggestion would be a modificated Skribbane Herb.

Another already debated issue, look for older posts and see Celtic Minstrel for it is its work.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Some REALLY minor errors in bladbase.exs:

Name Changes:
Item #225 to Platinum Bar
Item #326 to Gold Necklace
Item #332 to Silver Necklace
Item #333 to Uranium Bar
Item #334 to Gold Bar

For sake of consistency ... done.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Item #194, Ebony Lizard usually summoned Basilisks, not Giant Lizards, methinks.

Just checked in Exile 3 and it was summoning Giant Lizards wink

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Item #274, Lightning Rods has an ability value of 20 instead of 10 as maximum.

True. We changed the exploding arrows but forgot the lightning rods. (Temporary ?) put the strengh to 5.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
All hammer weapons (Bronze Hammer, Iron Hammer...) are displayed as maces in the Bladbase file, yet were changed to the new "blacksmith hammer" icon in all three standard scenarios.

Let's see what others have to say about that before changing it smile

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Monster #83, Drake uses the Bear Picture.

Fixed.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Monster #186, I believe the Dark Wyrm had a certain powerful darkness breath but does not have it anymore.

Hum, not sure about that ... Anyone out there ?

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Monster #189, Unused has a Slith Warrior Picture instead of the standard unused picture.

Fixed.

Thanks !
Chokboyz

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Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Also, why does the Brew of Lethe has a deletion note next to it? It appeared as a regular item at least in Exile 3 and thus has not really a reason for deletion.
Did we end up deciding to rename the weaker one to something like "Potion of Lethe" or "Draining Potion"? Someone (either Thuryl or ADoS) presented a good argument for that, if I recall correctly.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
This does not work with anything else than melee combat, but the (totally forgot the name) electrical secondary attack that can be used on weapons on-hit can also deal damage to Invulnerable enemies last I checked.
Assassination?

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Name Changes:
Item #225 to Platinum Bar
Item #326 to Gold Necklace
Item #332 to Silver Necklace
Item #333 to Uranium Bar
Item #334 to Gold Bar
Just changing capitalization? Why?

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
All hammer weapons (Bronze Hammer, Iron Hammer...) are displayed as maces in the Bladbase file, yet were changed to the new "blacksmith hammer" icon in all three standard scenarios.
That's debatable. The "blacksmith hammer" icon doesn't seem particularly suitable as a weapon, to me at least.

Originally Posted By: Crynsos

Monster #186, I believe the Dark Wyrm had a certain powerful darkness breath but does not have it anymore.
Well, I'd assume there's a reason for Darkness being one of the Breath options. This seems likely to be the reason. Would it be possible for someone to check if E3 Dark Wyrms breathe darkness? Perhaps by entering E3 with a god party and going as directly as possible to the relevant dungeon?

Originally Posted By: Crynsos
Monster #189, Unused has a Slith Warrior Picture instead of the standard unused picture.
...This really doesn't matter.

The eventual release will probably remove the Unused ones anyway (thought they would stay around in existing scenarios).

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Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel
Originally Posted By: Crynsos
This does not work with anything else than melee combat, but the (totally forgot the name) electrical secondary attack that can be used on weapons on-hit can also deal damage to Invulnerable enemies last I checked.
Assassination?


Pretty sure he means the Flaming Weapon and Lightning abilities, which do full damage even to invulnerable enemies. This probably can be considered a bug, although it's pretty fun to exploit it when running through a scenario containing invincible monsters with a god-party.

Quote:
Just changing capitalization? Why?


Consistency with other items.

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