Torment Singletons

[Slawbug]

How does one run a singleton in A5? Particularly in Torment?

 

Dodge-maxing already didn't work in A4 (and Essence Shield/Armor provide much less of a bonus in A5), armor-maxing didn't work in Nethergate and that was with Armor Use, and you can't rely on Daze or sneak attacks like in G3, or Parry like in G2.

 

Not being able to block damage consistently means you need to heal consistently, so you need priest spells. Of course you also need mage spells for haste and slow, unlock and dispel... However, I don't think there's any way you can rely on your limited spell points to dish out damage, not even for bosses. Since dodging is a joke and the enemies will all come to you, and you can't even get a natural 10 AP until practically the end of the game, I suppose you may as well go for pole weapons over archery. This also lets you go for Strength for better armor, and go Slith. The 2 level penalty sucks, but the bonus to poison and acid resistance actually looks pretty darn good.

 

Frankly I wonder if this is even doable at all. Tool Use? Mage Spells? Hah...

[Synergy]

I think the slith makes good sense for an attempt. I was able to armor my slith as much as my shield-carrying melee fighter during testing, with the right combination of gear eventually. In the first couple of chapters, the slith died a LOT more than anyone else, though, always feeling like the vulnerable member of the party.

 

However, I think it is likely that A5 will be the first SW game in which Jeff successfully has made it virtually impossible to run a tormented singleton through to the end. He stated as much as his intention, or at least was pleased that it appears to be the case. Randomizer will testify how brutal or unworkable it is, since he tried repeatedly already, and had to give up eventually. So many fights slow you down, and you have splitting Unstable Masses and the return of the feared Doomguard, etc. to contend with. At the very least, many encounters will have to be avoided. Arcane Lore and Nature Lore, and probably Tool Use would have to be sacrificed as well.

 

The person who pulls off a tormented singleton will be a real hero, and it will be entertaining to witness the efforts. Is anyone up to the challenge? I'm not even inclined to try, as much as I have seen all the game.

 

A tormented duo might be more feasible. I think you need at least one designated magician to make this game work.

 

-S-

[Randomizer]

Synergy is right since we discussed my failures during testing. I made it through the demo without too many reloads and haven't made it through chapter 2. My idea of exploiting parry to avoid damage got quashed when Jeff reduced parry from 5% to 3% so I couldn't rely on over 50% parry by chapter 2. A pure priest spell character has troubles with splitters and boss fights where slow helps.

 

I went with a divine touched natural mage nephil. You really need the faster rate of advancement to get all those skill points. Sacrifice arcane lore and nature lore until a trainer and limit tool use to 7 for the demo and don't start with it. You will finish the demo at 14th level or just shy of it depending on combat and quest order. You gain levels at twice the rate of a party of 4.

 

I tried divine touch elite warrior but you do need armor in the game and the strength to wear it unencumbered. Go with pole weapons since you need the higher damage in combat to keep from burning through spell energy.

 

The main trick is to retreat after killing a few to keep from using potions. There are some other exploits like use slow and daze on the unstable mass to reduce splits. It doesn't split on turns where it has no action. This burns a few energy potions. Another is retreat into passageways and doorways where only one will attack you.

 

The main problem is later in the game you face AP draining monsters. The draining slimes are back and Jeff added a crawler class that can do the same. Then there is a stun attack and the stunning blow battle discipline that cost you a round if hit. Even with skipping some of these encounters you still have one of the stunning attack summons facing Dorikas.

 

Daze and strong daze aren't always reliable and there are a limited number of mass madness scrolls which can be effective with reloads. Charm (control foes) didn't work enough to help later in the game.

 

I think that you have to go the high endurance/resistance route to limit damage that penetrates per round for torment. Even then swarms are killer. Summons aren't as effective except arcane summon near the end.

 

I'm slowly playing a torment duo game that might be possible for the whole game.

 

I forgot use javelins and steel javelins for the extra damage by increasing thrown missles. They work wonders and you can't sell them.

 

Buy extra levels of bolt of fire, acid spray, daze, smite, and repel spirit so you can one shot monsters. With spellcraft between 4 and 6 it makes it easier. Having to waste 2 attacks to kill a goblin is wasteful. Icy rain can wait until chapter 2 when it's cheaper and the targets group themselves closer together.

[Slawbug]

There are basically 4 concerns overall, I think.

 

1. Defense. You need enough defense to be able to stay alive without spending all your actions healing.

 

2. Offense. You need enough offense to be able to kill tough enemies without burning through loads of potions or items.

 

3. Coping skills. If there are any encounters that provide a particular problem for a singleton for any reason, you need a way to deal with them.

 

4. Tool Use, Unlock, Dispel, etc.

 

Defense is probably doable at least for low numbers of enemies, but I'm not sure there's any way to deal with swarms effectively, or even single enemies with multiple strong attacks.

 

I think offense is doable, but I'm not sure. After reading Randomizer's notes, I wonder if it would make any sense to ignore physical attacks, go all out with spells and just make liberal use of running back to town (or the faster version used only at times you could go back to town, "imdrained"). Spell damage actually pumps faster than pole damage does, surprisingly, with Spellcraft and Magery cheaper than Strength and Blademaster; and you need to put something into spell skill either way for healing and utility spells.

 

The tutorial may actually be pretty deadly for such a character, but I'm tempted to try it. Sort of a Geneforge Agent style Avernum game.

[Randomizer]

A normal difficulty singleton probably can do 90+% of the game. Torment lowers the amount.

 

You start out low in spell energy for the area below Blackchasm Outpost. You finish up after kill Newsom and reaching the stairs at level 3. For this area you need some combat skills to compensate.

 

The unstable mass is the only fight that really needs a weapon over spells. With slow and daze you can minimize the splits so maybe you can do it your way.

 

Combat skills are really helpful to get shield breaker battle discipline for the boss monsters.

 

I think your method might work if you pick the right order for doing the demo. Picking when to increase tool use was always a problem since combat and spell skills are needed first. You can come back for loot later on since almost all the encounters can be done without TU.

 

The best way to deal with swarms is daze which is more effective if you are raising spellcraft. The other is choosing a position to minimize attacks on your character. Wait on increasing magery until Shankar's Tower in chapter 2 since you can buy it then.

 

Arcane lore and nature lore start with the trainers in chapters 2 and 3. Then you can raise them and go back for spellbooks and loot. Dispel barrier needs level 11 mage spells, but there aren't that many barriers in the early part of the game that can't be taken down with piercing crystals.

 

You need summoned creatures for shields for the AP drainers. The altar demon is a case where it's hard as a singleton.

[Slawbug]

I just did the basement with no combat skills. A human no less. DT, NM. 4 extra points into Mage Spells and 4 into Intelligence. Acid Spray, Acid Spray, Acid Spray. A single shot kills anything there, and three kill Newsom (whilst running away from him). I did have to use two energy potions, but that's okay -- very few areas stop me from "retreating to town" so I don't actually expect to need a ton of them outside of boss fights. Could have gotten by with just one energy potion use if I'd held off on Tool Use (I'm always too lazy to wait on that) until the level 2 and 3 points came in, and plugged more into Intelligence.

 

My character's name? Shanti, in her honor...

[Randomizer]

Energy potions go quickly for a singleton. The black wight and Dirty Desiree are easy examples for a singleton that take a few reloads.

 

You come down to a choice between energy potions/elixirs and knowledge brews later on in the game. Having high intelligence helps avoid that problem since as a singleton you'll have twice the spell points of a normal character.

 

Running with a human is risky since those damage battle disciplines all apply to spell damage too. Even if you don't add to combat skills after the start they add up quickly.

[Slawbug]

I figure as a singleton I can buy all the training, so that's 9 battle skill right there, 10 with the bonus point to poles. I was ignoring battle skill due to Spray Acid being such a prodigious damage source, but the disciplines might be worth it anyway when I need to branch out.

 

You may be right. The question is how many levels you get as a singleton. If a 4 member party nephil has 2 levels on a slith, and a singleton gets twice the xp, I assumed a 4 level difference, but I'm now realizing that's a very bad assumption, and it's likely to still be just 2. So perhaps a nephil is worth it for the battle skills. Probably so. Oh well; this time I can do the basement the right way and not use any energy potions. Although I will miss the Agent graphic.

[Randomizer]

A nephil gets to 3rd level by the end of the basement. You can then start tool use and get TU 4 by doing the rats and bats north of the outpost above and below ground. This gets you Dirty Dan's loot before fighting him.

 

Acid spray starts out great, but after a few encounters it isn't as helpful. Hasted bolt of fire works great for the slimes and they have some great loot. I could fight most things with bolt of fire or smite, but I relied more on a spear to do the damage in the early fights until I built up spell energy.

 

Figure 13th level and maybe 14th for the demo plus the one knowledge brew. Then in chapter 2 there are the Gladwell message knowledge brew and a knowledge brew and wisdom crystal in Shankar's Tower to buy. I never got past clearing the east half of the Northern Isles except that Mongobat.

 

Edit - Looking at Synergy's singleton in normal, he reached 24th level in chapter 3 as a nephil. You probably will be just below 60th level by the end of the game. Running a nephil means that in chapter 3 you are already at 5 combat disciplines without doing anything. By the time you make the trainer in chapter 4 you should have 1 and 1/2 from Khora-Vysss and maybe 1 from levels. Either way the trainer will easily give you 6 before you run low on money so you will be at mighty blow, From there spending skill points pays off to get the last few battle disciplines. There is also the discipline knife in chapter 5 for 3 combat skills if you are relying mostly on magic.

[Mivayan]

Quote:

Originally written by Randomizer:
My idea of exploiting parry to avoid damage got quashed when Jeff reduced parry from 5% to 3% so I couldn't rely on over 50% parry by chapter 2. A pure priest spell character has troubles with splitters and boss fights where slow helps.

In Avernum 4, 10-12 points of parry (half from elite warrior) made my torment singleton feel immune to melee damage. A hit from an archer did 10x the damage a melee hit did. Is this part of parry changed?

I'll try the singleton after a full party... after the windows version arrives.

[Randomizer]

You get 2% armor from each point of parry so there is some advantage to having it for damage reduction. The damage avoidance isn't as great as in the earlier games. Dropping from 5% to 3% makes it less likely when you get it in the 10-12 range that it will help. It still does against melee and missle attacks and even a little against missle spells.

 

What parry doesn't help against are the area effect damages. Giant stomps, lightning aura, and rain of fire are the worst for a singleton that doesn't have a meat shield fighter to pin the monster. Poison and acid aren't that bad because endurance and the pathfinder skill in Muck can negate most of those damages.

[Slawbug]

Smooth Sailing!

 

My DT NM Nephil Torment singleton (Groul, in honor of Nephil's Gambit) is having a breeze. He got to level 4 quickly fighting weak enemies, then moved on to deal with the rest of chapter 1, one piece at a time. I waited on several tough fights, the giant and the altar demon, until after doing Hirickis and getting to chapter 2.

 

The reason: Shanker. Lightning Spray and the second Summon spells are great, and +3 to Spellcraft and Magery (plus an extra couple points from skill points) makes everything happy. Since then chapter 2 and the rest of chapter 1 have been ridiculously easy. Seriously, I've never had such a cake walk on Torment (with the exception of running seven broken Vlish in G3).

 

I'm also having a lot of fun, way more than with any of my past Torment or singleton playthroughs of any game. I think it's because every encounter is eminently doable but requires cycling through a variety of different tactics. There's also less rinse-and-repeat clicking than with my Torment party of four.

 

Things are actually so easy that I've been saving a bunch of a skill points (currently around 35) for later investment into trained skills, Endurance, or into Tool Use when needed, etc. I just don't need them.

 

Current stats, after most (but not quite all) of chapter 2:

 

(Skills I have actually put skill points into are marked with an asterisk; as this list includes item and special bonuses.)

 

Level 17

Skill points: 40

Health: 85 (augmented)

Spell Energy: 155

 

Str 4

Dex 2

Int 8 *

End 2

 

Melee 0

Pole 0

Bows 4

Throws 4

QA 1

 

Mage Spells 10 *

Priest Spells 3 *

Arcane Lore 0

Spellcraft 7 *

 

Hardiness 1

Defense 0

Tool Use 7 *

Nature Lore 0

First Aid 0

Luck 1

 

Blademaster 5

Gymnastics 2

Magery 9 *

Magical Eff 2

Sharpshooter 5

 

67% Armor

43% Fire

37% Cold

37% Energy

43% Stun

25% Mental

20% Poison

45% Acid

 

Equipment: Ratskin Shawl, Iron Bracer, Shield Ring, Shielding Knife, Swamp Boots, Leather Pants, Steel Shield, Tribal Symbol, Ruby Breastplate, Girdle of Might

 

The equipment is mainly optimized for highest armor value within my weight allowance.

 

Useful tactics:

Haste, Bless, with Bolt of Fire or Lightning Spray kills most regular enemies. For bosses, Minor Summons with buffs plus Slow makes things almost too easy. The Wights and Ghasts in particular are great with their stunning and slowing effects -- reminds me very much of the old Vlish army.

 

I am sure that in a chapter or two, things will be much harder, as I won't be getting any more sudden +8 bonuses to spellcasting skill, and my own summons may start to run out of steam.

[Randomizer]

Since you got the saved skill points, you might want to raise TU 10 to get the few missed locks and the minor XP from opening them. Raising endurance is also helpful since at this point you actually get some health from it and can reduce acid/poison damage.

 

I don't think raising nature lore above the 5 for chapter 4 is helpful unless you want money. NL 8 only gets you the one wisdom crystal but lots of crystals in chapter 3.

 

I did all the hard ones before moving on to chapter 2 and that's a grind. You could go downstream to chapter 3 and visit Harkin's Landing for the priest spells up to mass curing and the other trainers depending upon your cash flow (resistance is expensive). Then take a pylon back to finish up chapter 2 since you need a second trip anyway to do the quest in the rapids.

 

You're ahead of schedule for the chapter 4 mage spell levels to get dispel barrier and prismatic shield.

[Slawbug]

Yes; the Mage Spells levels were added to make chapter 1 doable, and I will need all of them eventually to use all the mage spells (all of which I expect to need access to).

 

The Tool Use experience should make almost no difference in the long run particularly as it scales nonlinearly by average party level, so singletons get less xp than parties do. I am waiting till I get Nature Lore or Dispel Barrier to go back, to reduce the number of times I have to recheck all that empty land.

 

For Nature Lore, 3 points are available from training and another 4 from items relatively late in the game, although +2 is in the same chapter as the knowledge brewmaker. There is a fair amount of Mandrake and Graymold buried in caches, and Mandrake appears to (again) be the limiting reagent for knowledge brew. (I can't see any advantage to cratfing wisdom crystals instead, unless you run out of graymold.)

 

The following table summarizes the cost of reaching a certain level of NL, the level you get with the +3 and the +5, and the amount of skill point return for both levels of NL.

 

Code:

Invest  Lore    Lore +3  Return    Lore +5  Return    Lore +7  Return2	1       4        --        6        --        8        48       3       6        --        8        4         10       1216      5       8        4         10       12        12       1821      6       9        4         11       12        13       2426      7       10       12        12       18        14       4638      9       12       18        14       46        16       48

The key observation here is that ANY investment in nature lore is profitable once you have the full +7 bonus, but NO investment is profitable before then. (Except for the 38 point investment, which is a waste of points in the long run.)

 

The optimal investment is 7 points, for 26 skill points, and a return of 46 skill points. You can invest it at the time you get the explorer's ring (the first +2 item) and get most the investment back immediately. Immediately, of course, means after you spend 2 hours clicking through every single game map again.

 

I may have missed a detail in here somewhere, so feel free to correct me.

[Randomizer]

The only problem is Jeff made it required that nature lore be 5 to do the final battle in the Sentinel Workshop. It is possible to fight your way out of the southwest quadrant by avoiding all sentinel encounters until you reach the corner just before the road out. There you have to fight 4 sentinels and another 8 that later guard the road (these are easier to deal with because you can do 1 or 2 at a time). You might be able to go this route and then do the Anama Lands and the next few regions to get the Explorer Ring. Of course this means bypassing the weapons trainer too.

 

Endurance helps here to reduce acid damage and give the health to shrug off damage. You also need it for Lysstak in chapter 3 because it's a long scripted fight.

 

The upside is that the areas after Tranquility aren't that hard for a singleton. You can pick up the discipline knife for 3 combat skills, there are cheaper places to get spells, and once you reach Muck you can get knowledge brews made.

 

I found that mandrake is the limiting factor to making knowledge brews. The next is energetic herbs because because they are required for both knowledge brews, wisdom crystals, and energy potions/elixirs. Making wisdom crystals is a waste of time and money. Graymold becomes so plentiful at the end of the game that it's never a problem.

 

Clicking through all those caches is a pain. It's hard for a regular party to go back for that one cache that needed a higher NL.

[Slawbug]

You can train Nature Lore in chapter 3, though, so you only have to buy 2 points to deal with that battle. That's an investment of 5 skill points, which you'd want to spend that way eventually, anyhow. Not a big deal.

[Slawbug]

Not much new to report. One thing I did do is switch to the Bonding Knife, which I should have had equipped from the beginning. The Dex is totally irrelevant, and the Int is not a big loss. The real problem is the Strength loss which reduces the amount of armor I can wear. However, for an extra 4 points of Endurance, it's worth it. I dumped my shield, and added a few pounds of armor elsewhere. This change was mostly unnecessary but it was helpful against Hssrotis in the Fang Clan test, with those fire-breathing bats of his.

 

I didn't realize before that there were zero required encounters between Shanker and Harkin's Landing, so you can actually train Hardiness quite early.

[Delicious Vlish]

Torment duo quite possible, at least so far. Nephil with DT and EW. Tool use. Heavy combat investment. Primary function is to be a distraction and damage magnet, a job he does remarkably well. Archery very powerful. Has a few levels of priest skill, will have more with items.

 

Slith mage / priest. Why? The extra hit points have made a big difference! Low str means a shield is to heavy anyway. There are poles with things like quick action and what not. I get a free investment in pole weapons that grows over time, giving me free special attacks. I took NM / PS as special abilities, and, with the right robe, I'll get a free level to both mage and priest skills, reducing my investment costs.

 

I am currently tiptoeing though Solberg's lands.

[Randomizer]

Quote:

Originally written by Elastikon:
This change was mostly unnecessary but it was helpful against Hssrotis in the Fang Clan test, with those fire-breathing bats of his.

Daze is essential here to keep the bats from fighting and sometime keep Hssrotis in place while you clear the area and recharge spell energy. You don't want to deal with those nastier bats and him at the same time.

Quote:

I didn't realize before that there were zero required encounters between Shanker and Harkin's Landing, so you can actually train Hardiness quite early.

The clover boots and jeweled wand are nice in the rapid area, plus it's hard to carry all the good stuff as a singleton. You have to make a second trip to do one quest so it easier to clear part of the area each trip downstream.

[Slawbug]

Yes, Hssrotis was a real pain. Lightning Spray + Firebolt (or Lightning + a summoned creature attack) would take out the three weaker sets of bats, but I did use Daze (often twice in the same turn) on the fiery bats.

[Bryce]

Has anyone done a singleton on hard? I'm trying that now. (Slith DT+NM)

[Randomizer]

Synergy ran a singleton with just priest spells on normal through the first 3 chapters. I don't know if he continued into chapter 4.

 

Slarty has made it into chapter 3 on torment. I'm starting a new one (nephil elite warrior divine touch) on torment.

[Slawbug]

Why EW?

[Randomizer]

Kind of curious if the damage reduction from parry plus the occasional actual parry can allow a singleton to survive. I know in the later part of the game that parry is the only thing that helps versus AP draining monsters in long fights. In theory the damage reduction from parry is only slightly less than using better armor from natural mage.

 

The extra levels of blademaster allow me to occasionally use a weapon without weapon skills.

 

This is pretty much just an experiment until I get back to running a duo.

[Slawbug]

The problem with Parry is that you can't even get it to 50% effectiveness against melee. You could, in theory, but even getting 20 Parry just grants you 45% effectiveness. 10 gives you 30%. Not so hot.

 

NM also gives 40+ skill pts worth of mage skill if you plan to use all spells. Less otherwise. Parry costs even more I suppose, and the Blademaster is another nice bonus for fatigue reduction.

[Bryce]

Well, whoever said that singletons are mostly about spray acid was right. A lot of the singleton game reduces to finding places to hide while the boss dies from acid. (Which is actually interesting, I don't mean it in a highly negative way. Although it is less varied than normal combat, it's still fun.)

 

*I suspect that we will be limited to two castings of spray acid per battle in A6, since that's a "simple and direct solution" to it being too good )

 

So far so good, though. Haven't had anything really frustrating happen although I do run back to town quite a bit to recharge energy. HP restoring items are very common but SP restoring items are quite rare, at least in comparison. Still, if I'm conservative with them (run back to town rather than use one, whenever practical) I don't think it will be a problem.

[Slawbug]

Hey Random -- does Parry reduce all sorts of damage, or just physical damage? If it reduces all sorts, then I think EW is a better deal after all (and I may have to end up switching my traits).

[Slawbug]

Inevitably, impatient me answered my own question. The results of my test:

 

Average damage (no armor or defense whatsoever) from the tested physical attack: 48.0

For the same character with 10 Parry (counting only hits that are not parried): 38.2

 

Same thing vs Lightning Spray: 56.8

10 Parry vs Lightning Spray: 39.7

 

So indeed, Parry is quite good, and seems to compare to Hardiness in value. That settles the EW question solidly, as even a flat 10% reduction from 5 Parry beats the better armor you might use with NM. The skill points you save on Mage Spells compare at least partially to the skill points you save on Strength. And finally, the extra Blademaster (for fatigue reduction) is an excellent bonus.

 

I'm converting Groul now, using the editor. I don't count this as a cheat, particularly, since both traits have the same xp penalty and I didn't get any advantage out of using NM for the first bit.

[Randomizer]

Having fought Hrickis with both sets of traits and a few others, I couldn't tell the difference with or without parry. Using the editor is more efficient. I thought parry was just against physical. If you make it to chapter 7, there are blessed breastplates that don't encumber for base 34% armor plus magery +2 or extra energy resistance.

 

I'm almost done with chapter 1 having only the unstable mass, the altar demon, and the golem to finish. I'm finding that spray acid is more useful than I thought since in the past I just raised spellcraft to one shot monsters with bolt of fire, smite, or repel spirit. Using summoned creatures as delaying obstacles allows me to retreat while waiting for Marrowbones to weaken to terrorized state so I could finish him off without closing.

 

Edit - I finished Chapter 1 with the following stats:

values in parentheses are with items - bonding knife, numble sandals, girdle of intelligence, tribal charm

 

Level 14 - 6 skill points

Health (95), Spell Energy 131 (131)

 

Strength 3 (2)

Dexterity 2 (2)

Intelligence 8 (8)

Endurance 3 (7)

 

Melee weapons 0

Pole weapons 0

Bows 5

Thrown weapons 7

Quick Action 0

 

Mage spells 6

Priest spells 4

Arcane Lore 0

Spellcraft 1

 

Hardiness 1

Defense 0

Tool use 7

Nature Lore 0

First Aid 0

Luck 2

 

Parry 3

Blademaster 7

Anatomy 1 (piercing gloves)

Gymnastics 2

Magery 4

Sharpshooter 4

 

I went with some missle skills so I could have battle disciplines of well aimed blow and shield breaker to speed up combat. It also makes all those javelins useful earlier in the game where I can do real damage with them.

 

I forgot to mention to Slarty, the weapons trainer in chapter 4 requires you to kill a monster that causes you to lose a round when it hits or at least severely drains AP. Have fun with that.

[Randomizer]

Update now that I'm stuck fighting the Prime Sentinel. Torment isn't fun. Compared to A4 where I could finish each chapter without too much trouble, here I have to skip parts of the expert area and come back. So the Fang Clan test waited until after reaching Harkin's Landing. Khora-Vysss' Slith chief and horror are still out there.

 

Lysstakk was a pain without the rat because of low nature lore. Now facing the Prime Sentinel it's worse. At NL 3 I lose the servants as fast as I convert them. NL 6 is slightly better, but not enough to keep them around and going after the Prime instead of each other. I'm going to have to replay the game to get NL 8 or more to finish this area. I tried a lot of different tactics and none work well enough with the NL level. A party of 4 usually has NL of 10 to 12 by this point.

 

Tiacourna's West Tower quest used up 2 invulnerability potions to survive the death curse. This is the difference between hard and torment. Also minor summon ghasts kept one charged sentinel out of the fight with stuns to speed up the test.

 

Level 30 - 0 skill points

Health 243 with bonding knife, Spell Energy 352

 

Strength 3 (1) bonding knife and symbiotic cloak

Dexterity 2 (0)

Intelligence 8 (11) intelligence girdle to help raise

Endurance 6 (10)

 

Melee weapons 0

Pole weapons 0

Bows 7

Thrown weapons 9

Quick Action 0 (1)

 

Mage spells 10

Priest spells 7

Arcane Lore 3 bought

Spellcraft 9 bought 3

 

Hardiness 4 bought 3

Defense 0

Tool use 8

Nature Lore 6

First Aid 3

Luck 5

 

Parry 5

Blademaster 13

Gymnastics 4

Magery 12

Resistance 3 bought

Magical efficiency 1

Sharpshooter 8

[Randomizer]

Since I have it out right now, I'm about to go into the Giant's Spire for the first time. I had to skip the Chasm Bat's, Whirling Thrasher, under Muck, Lake of Trials west and center island tests, and still haven't gone north into Soultaker's Pit and Gladwell's Keep.

 

I just finished the Swamp Monster quest but need to claim my reward so that should push me up a level. Edit - still 100 XP shy.

 

It's a bit of a grind, but I figured out how to do Shafrir's Tower, but I'm too weak to open the gate to get Solberg's calipers. Need to get my girdle of might.

 

I going to give stats without items:

 

Level 38 - 15 skill points

Health 166, Spell Energy 362

 

Strength 3

Dexterity 2

Intelligence 9

Endurance 6

 

Melee weapons 3 bought 3

Pole weapons 3 bought 3

Bows 9 bought 2

Thrown weapons 10

Quick Action 1

 

Mage spells 11

Priest spells 12

Arcane Lore 3 bought 3

Spellcraft 8 bought 3

 

Hardiness 3 bought 3

Defense 0

Tool use 10

Nature Lore 12 bought 3

First Aid 3

Luck 3 bought 2

 

Parry 7

Blademaster 16

Anatomy 3 bought 3

Gymnastics 4

Magery 14 bought 3

Resistance 4 bought 3

Magical efficiency 1

Sharpshooter 10

 

Currently wear:

Girdle of Intelligence +2 intelligence

Symbiotic Cloak +2 intelligence, -1 strength, -1 dexterity

Warmaster Helm

Enchanter's Robe +1 mage spells, +1 priest spells, +2 spellcraft

Clarity Talisman +1 mage spells, +1 hardiness

Suede Gloves +2 resistance, +2 spellcraft

Warrior's Vambraces

Radiant Boots

Farsight Longbow

usually Discipline Knife

Mica band for poison and acid resistance

Nullity shield

 

Spoilers -

 

The Howling Depths isn't bad with adrenaline rush and daze. Just try to avoid most fights until you trigger the message about pursuit ending. Go after Tholmen's bunch, recharge and go back and take out whatever's left. Mickelbur was gone, but I got enough.

 

Moref is easy with an invulnerability potion to help keep damage down while you hunt for him among the unstable servants.

 

Mindwarp chitrach is even easier as long a summoned creature keeps it away so its area of effect spells don't hurt you.

 

Chitrach queen is easy by surrounding yourself with dazed chitrachs and concentrating on her.

[Randomizer]

Took out the whirling trasher at a cost of 2 assault crystals, an invulnerability potion and elixir. Turned in Solberg's calipers, and did Highground's Giant Diplomacy quest where the only pain was the Painmaster. Now I had a Magus vest and raised AL up to 10 and got dispel barrier at Highground. Cleared magical barriers and read spellbooks as I looted.

 

Just finished Morbo under Muck using 2 mass madness scrolls and 2 energy elixirs. I'm going to try again to see if I can do better. I was really charming.

 

Made level 40. After I clear the rest of below Muck it's on to Thalants. At level 48 I will have all the battle disciplines without needing equipment.

[Randomizer]

I completed the Vahnatai Lands including passing under Kherebass except for the Hraithe Lord and Pit of Abominations. Doubled back to finish the Lake of Trials west test and just killed Gladwell. So it on to Soultaker's Pit

 

I going to give stats without items (item modified values):

 

Level 44 - 12 skill points

Health 228 (327 with augmentation and bonding knife), Spell Energy 416 (551)

 

Strength 3 (1)

Dexterity 2 (0)

Intelligence 9 (12)

Endurance 6 (10)

 

Melee weapons 4 bought 3, Vahnatai ghost trainer 1

Pole weapons 4 bought 3, spellbook 1

Bows 10 bought 2

Thrown weapons 12 spellbook 1

Quick Action 1

 

Mage spells 14 (16)

Priest spells 15 (16)

Arcane Lore 11 (15 when wearing silk woven cord and magus vest) bought 3

Spellcraft 8 (11) bought 3

 

Hardiness 3 (4) bought 3

Defense 0

Tool use 11

Nature Lore 12 bought 3

First Aid 3

Luck 3 bought 2

 

Parry 8

Blademaster 19

Anatomy 3 bought 3

Gymnastics 8 bought 3

Magery 17 (17) bought 3

Resistance 4 (6) bought 3

Magical efficiency 5 (5) bought 3

Lethal blow 3 bought 3

Riposte 1

Sharpshooter 13

 

Currently wear:

Girdle of Intelligence +2 intelligence

Symbiotic Cloak +2 intelligence, -1 strength, -1 dexterity

Warmaster Helm

Magus Vest +1 mage spells, +1 priest spells, +1 spellcraft, +2 AL

Clarity Talisman +1 mage spells, +1 hardiness

Suede Gloves +2 resistance, +2 spellcraft

Warrior's Vambraces

Gazerskin sandals

Farsight Longbow

Bonding knife

Blessed Armor Ring

Nullity shield

 

Gladwell was a pain using 7 energy elixirs but what really bugged me was getting a talisman of might and gloves of the hammer to raise my strength to open the backdoor gate. Torum, Lord of Bats kept terrorizing me so it took a few tries. Otherwise it hasn't been bad.

[Randomizer]

Since the last post I easily did Soultaker's Pit with the quickghasts being the only pain with their AP drain. Went down river to Melanchion's Keep for a few easy XP quests and to get knowledge brews. Then back to clean up the Vahnatai Lands.

 

The Hraithe Lord was easier than I expected except for needing energy potions to recharge after spell energy drains. Go into hasted fight mode to reach that narrow northwest tunnel. Use arcane summon to get a decent monster to block the tunnel and repeat as it moves to attack the Hraithe Lord. This will keep it from moving to attack you. Then it's just keep attacking and bring some wands so you don't use too many potions.

 

The Pit of Abominations was just a grind of 11 energy elixirs to recharge all the way to fight Gashlah the Lich. I kept charming his creations until he burned away. The doomguard was way easier than during beta testing.

 

Now it's time for the tribute quests and to get Bellichick's release.

[Randomizer]

Game over --

 

I finished with both endings while the board was down. It wasn't even that hard at the end. In the process I destroyed the Fang Clan testing area village, Harkin's Landing, Ahonaria, Thalants (just to see what would drop), Melanchion's Keep (grabbed the dragon's egg), and part of Solberg's Tower. I sold the dragon's egg to Solberg for the Robe of the Magi and then killed him to see him drop a Robe of the Magi and a Symbiotic Cloak.

 

It's possible to do everything and kill them.

 

Killing the Black Horror got me +1 in strenght, dexterity, and intelligence, so these stats are from before that.

 

The key at the end was parry. Skipping ahead to Dorikas' Fortress I trained with Tholem for a lot of skills. With 12 parry I could hold off the Haakai so it impaled itself on my spines while moving around the chamber and smiting him. The Black Horror and Melanchion required equipment (answering gloves, radiant soulblade, flowing silk cloak) to raise parry to 18 where I learned about the 50% parry cap. This is the way to deal with AP drainers.

 

I finished at level 49 for Dorikas and 50 just before reaching Redmark for the Darkside Loyalist ending.

 

I going to give stats without items (item modified values):

 

Traits - Elite Warrior, Divine Touch

 

Level 48 - 2 skill points

Health (351 with augmentation), Spell Energy 574 (697)

 

Strength 4

Dexterity 3

Intelligence 12 (14)

Endurance 10

 

Melee weapons 4 bought 3, Vahnatai ghost trainer 1

Pole weapons 4 bought 3, spellbook 1

Bows 11 bought 2

Thrown weapons 13 spellbook 1

Quick Action 4 bought 3

 

Mage spells 16 (17)

Priest spells 17

Arcane Lore 13 (18 when wearing silk woven cord, and crystalline aegis and magus vest) bought 3

Spellcraft 8 (11) bought 3

 

Hardiness 3 (4) bought 3

Defense 0

Tool use 13

Nature Lore 12 bought 3 (16 with swamp gloves and explorer's ring)

First Aid 3

Luck 5 bought 2

 

Quick Strike 3 bought 3

Parry 12 bought 3

Blademaster 24 bought 3

Anatomy 3 bought 3

Gymnastics 8 bought 3

Magery 19 bought 3

Resistance 5 bought 3

Magical efficiency 5 bought 3

Lethal blow 3 bought 3

Riposte 4 bought 3

Sharpshooter 13

 

Items were swapped as needed runed plate or mecuric plate, crystalline aegis or quicksilver bulwark, ratskin shawl and frozen blade to compensate for the -20% to hit of mecuric plate since I don't have natural mage trait.

 

[mishtatef]

I've just completed the game on Torment as a singleton -

there's no quest which is undoable, although the Black Horror was lengthy and used a lot of energy elixirs.

 

It's essential to end the conflict frequently in the middle of some fights - otherwise you just get repeatedly stunned.

Whereas if you try to end the conflict, and it says wait till the end of the round, and then you zap someone, they zap you and then the conflict ends, you get a free go to summon a friend, heal or speed yourself etc, and you're not paralysed.

 

For the really tough fights, I found the only way was to speed oneself, cast an area of effect spell near the opponent and then end conflict on your 2nd go. Then you restart and repeat, inflicting damage without the opponent ever having a go at you. Feels like cheating, but using

their stupidity (Where did that fire come from? I can't see anything) is I suppose legitimate.

 

Other tough fights were Lysstak the beast, but I lured him

3 times into the vicinity of the lift, took it down leaving him stranded and then shot arrows at him. He really ought to get a range weapon. Oh and the doomguard

near the Lich took forever, but I lured him onto the ledge

at the back of his room, where only two of them could hit me at a time, and they have very limited room in which to

multiply, so you never have more than 8 of them around.

They'd also benefit from a sling or something.

 

I expected the flight from the Anama region to be very tough, but again stopping the conflict made it not too hard to run away. When you stop the conflict you get a free step away from your hundreds of pursuers, which means you can get your full compliment of actions and you can outrun them. A few invulnerability potions helped.

 

So everything's doable. Whether it's worth it, depends I suppose on how obsessive you are...

 

Anyway, a great game.

 

Jonathan