Skill Bug *Bad*

[Euphoria]

I have run into a fairly minor, but annoying bug, that affects skill point cost, and therefore how many skill levels you can buy from trainers.

 

First off, I do not know what is triggering this bug; partly this is due to my playing style. I try to maximize my skills by not investing in any skill that can be bought at a trainer till after I visit the trainer. So, I am not aware of the issue till I visit a trainer, and find I can only buy 2 levels instead of three.

 

What happens is this. I get to the trainer (this has happened 2 times my my current game, each with a different skill, on different characters), and find that one of my characters somehow has a skill cost as though they had invested in the skill 1 time. It occurred first with spell craft on my slot # 3 character. Spellcraft begins with a cost of 3 skill points. When character 3 bought 1 point of spellcraft at Shanker his SC cost went to 4, while the other characters bought 2 levels before it went to 4 (btw, this suggest that the trainer level limit is based on skill cost, not skill level). Somehow, this character had the cost bumped up by 1 level, even though the character did not gain an actual level in the skill. This happened early in the game. I do not know exactly when or where in the demo area this happened. It was a minor issue, I used the editor to give that character the level he was due, and just accepted that the skill would cost slightly more for that character if I decided to invest in that skill on that character in the future (yeah, that character happened to be a spellcaster, great).

 

The next time I ran into this issue was at Captain Dixon in the Tranquility area. My slot #1 fighter could only buy 2 levels of pole arms!!! The same thing occurred as with the SC skill. His skill cost was somehow moved up by 1 level, even though he had not been give the level in the skill. I began re-loading saves to find how far back this happened to the character, and discovered that it went all the way back to a save in the demo section.

 

So...something in the DEMO section is doing this for both SC, and Pole arms. I am not sure if any other skills have been affected (partly because many I still have not unlocked).

 

I just wanted to see if this has happened with anyone else? Also, just want to give people a heads up to look for this, and also hope that Jeff might look into this and give it the appropriate fix it needs.

[Zummi]

Maybe you already bought a stat..I mean at the Custom Character building part..I made my mage/priest have 5 Arcane Lore..and by the time I reached Shanker..she wouldn't train it in Arcane Lore..

 

I think it's the game system and not a bug..

[Euphoria]

no, not the game system, yes a bug. I did not buy anything in those stats...those stats were at lvl 0. I am very aware of what I did, and did not invest my skill points in. How else would you explain a character only being able to train upto lvl 2 in a skill at a trainer? (note, train UPTO lvl 2, not train 2 lvls) How else would you be able to explain the cost for training the next level being 1 point higher than all the other characters with the skill at the same level, all characters having recieved the same exact bonuses, trainer training, investment, or lack thereof. All things being equal, the cost to train at the same level should be the same.

 

Also, if you read my initial post I make it clear that I do not invest skill points in any skill that can be bought from a trainer till AFTER I visit said trainer. Therefore, your explanation is impossible Azuma. If circumstances were otherwise I would not be wondering why I can't train 3 lvls at a trainer, and would not bother wasting my time, or any of your time, posting a false bug report.

[Ephesos]

Calm down, email Jeff.

[Euphoria]

I am very calm...just reporting bugs. This is the A5 forum, and seems an entirely appropriate place to post bug discoveries. Especially to discover if other players are encountering them as well. If Jeff doesn't read these forums...oh well.

[Spidweb]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but this seems to be working correctly. The cost in skill points for a skill should go up by one _every_other_ level you buy. Skills bought in shops DO count for this.

 

So if you buy one level of a skill in a shop, you might not drive the skill point cost up. If you buy the skill up to 1, the cost won't go up. If you buy it up to 2, the cost in skill points will go up by 1.

 

If you buy two levels, it definitely will cause the cost to go up by one.

 

Let me know if I have misunderstood what you're saying.

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Micawber]

Did all PCs have the same character type? Note that priest, sorcerer and hedge wizard all start off with one point in spellcraft already so the skill cost there is sunk.

[Euphoria]

Jeff,

 

First, I appreciate that you do in fact read the posts here, and care to understand, contrary to what a few other members here have posted.

 

Second, you are not understanding me correctly. I do understand that buying skills from trainers causes the cost to increase, and I also understand that the cost increase is after every 2 levels.

 

Let me try to rephrase what is occurring, so as to make this bug more clear.

 

For clarity sake, and to make things simpler, assume all character in my party are identical... which they just so happen to have been.

 

The saved game file I am looking at...my party is currently in Shaker's Tower. It is fairly early in the game. I will write out the info just for melee and pole, as this is one of the bugged skills, and illustrates the issue perfectly. All 4 of my characters are:

 

Melee lvl 0 cost 4

Pole lvl 0 cost 4

 

Ok, so given this situation it is obvious that I have not put any skill points into these 2 skills, nor have I visited a trainer. They are at the default of level 0. Simple enough.

 

Now, when I train, Using Skill Points, my slot # 1 character *lets call this guy A for short* this is what happens:

 

Melee lvl 1 cost 5 <---BUGGED

Pole lvl 1 cost 4

 

then

 

Melee lvl 2 cost 5

Pole lvl 2 cost 5

 

then

 

Melee lvl 3 cost 6

Pole lvl 3 cost 5

 

This is what happens for my other 3 characters when I train these same skills with Skill Points:

 

Melee lvl 1 cost 4

Pole lvl 1 cost 4

 

then

 

Melee lvl 2 cost 5

Pole lvl 2 cost 5

 

then

 

Melee lvl 3 cost 5

Pole lvl 3 cost 5

 

When I instead take these characters to a trainer to gain the 1st 3 lvls via $$$ the same exact progressions occur as noted above. Only one of the characters has the bugged costs. This is also exactly how the Spellcraft skill is bugged *except on a different character slot...slot #3 to be specific*, adjusting for the fact that SC begins as cost 3.

 

The ringer is, when I load my earliest save file of this game, which is right after the start...these skills are NOT bugged like this!! Something in the demo area, or the N. Isles upto Shanker's Tower is causing this, though I do not know what is the cause.

 

Is this more clear?

 

EDIT: Just to spell it out for people, so they don't ask ridiculous questions, I will also hash out the spellcraft issue. No, none of my characters has any skill levels in SC to begin with, thus, it looks like this to begin with:

 

Spellcraft lvl 0 cost 3

 

For the bugged character it then goes:

 

SC lvl 1 cost 4

SC lvl 2 cost 4

SC lvl 3 cost 5

 

Whereas, for the normal characters it goes:

 

SC lvl 1 cost 3

SC lvl 2 cost 4

SC lvl 3 cost 4

 

The net effect of this bug, is that, since trainers look at the cost as the determining factor in limiting how many times you can train with the, the bugged characters can only train 2 times at a trainer in the bugged skill, not 3. Also, they must pay more skill points for the same skill level, and over time that adds up to many wasted skill points. I consider this to be a bad bug.

[-=microphage=-]

Quote:

Originally written by Euphoria:
I am very calm...just reporting bugs. This is the A5 forum, and seems an entirely appropriate place to post bug discoveries. Especially to discover if other players are encountering them as well. If Jeff doesn't read these forums...oh well.

At the risk of appearing ignorant*, try to detail the alleged bug as much as possible. Then post the problem in the Tech Support forum. You'll find bug reports there as well as other useful info.

Start a new game, look at the stats and traits on entire party. Stats and traits vary in cost and level per character. Human sorcerer already knows 1st 5 mage spells, priest knows 1st 5 priest spells. Soldiers and scouts don't have any. Interestingly enough a soldier that you buy 2 mage spell points for still has 0 spells in traits. Buy 1 mage point for priest and he automatically gets 1st 2 mage spells. Buy 1 priest point for mage and he automatically gets 1st 3 priest spells. Also if a character happens to be missing (dead) when a stat changes it may cause a difference. (Remember the "cheat" to keep the artifacts in the Fang Clan Missing Loot post? http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=23;hardset=4 5;start_point=25 ) Maybe this could account for what you are seeing with trainers.

This is consistent with all your various skills and character types.

If you go to a trainer there are Learn, Improve, and Improve. I'm guessing that you are saying that it either allows you Learn and 1 Improve, or 2 Improves. 2 Improves from 0 and no Learn may be a problem. You also get spell and skill points as quest rewards and from reading books. Coins and trainer level may be a factor, as well as if you've modded some scripts. You can only improve 2 times with a given trainer.

Restore any altered scripts to original and see if bug occurs before posting in Tech Support or emailing spidweb. (Spiderweb Software doesn't support any mod introduced bugs.) You can use a saved game. It just won't reflect any modded abilities or items.

*Ignorant is teachable, stupid is chronic possibly terminal.

Edit: I took too long while working on this post and was behind 3 posts! Maybe there is still something helpful for someone and since I only type with 2 fingers I'll leave it.

[Spidweb]

"First, I appreciate that you do in fact read the posts here, and care to understand, contrary to what a few other members here have posted."

 

The other members were correct. I only saw this thread because a beta testers E-mailed me to bring it to my attention. Sadly, I don't have the time to patrol the myriad threads on this board.

 

I'd suggest E-mailing me a compressed saved game with the corrupted data, so I can see what happened. Save the game to the upper left save slot and compress and E-mail the folder Save0 (the Avernum 5 saved game folder is in the My Documents folder).

 

I'd also recommend uninstalling, redownloading, and reinstalling. This fixes a surprising amount of bizarre behavior. (Although, of course, it won't fix saved games that have already been corrupted.)

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Men are from Slars]

Are those characters wearing any equipment that reduces the skills in question? I'm pretty sure that's how other Spidweb games have handled equipment penalties -- I remember that with some of the stronger charms in Geneforge 3.

[Euphoria]

Nope, that is them nude.