U CAN Touch This

[Slariton]

GAH!

 

I just tried testing it empirically, to be sure. My dodging Agent was hit 11 out of 100 times by Icy Crawlers, despite the engine claiming their hit rate was 1%.

 

This is consistent with what I've observed in general.

 

Unless anyone knows why this happens, and it has to do with something specific (e.g., Essence Shield) and not just a general limitation on dodge effectiveness in melee, I think we can officially lay the dodging Agent to rest. Sigh.

[Delicious Vlish]

Doesn't Ice Bolt have a bonus to hit? IIRC, 10%.

 

With a 1% chance to hit and the bonus to hit tacked on, 11%... Right?

 

I know some creations have bonuses to hit, like Cryoas.

[Grain of Salt]

When you take away everything that does fire or ice or magic damage, though, all you can really dodge is turrets and guards.

[Slariton]

I tested physical attacks only. Missiles can actually reach 0% hit rate onscreen, and the few times I've seen that happen this game (against weak Artilla) I never once saw a hit.

 

Ice Bolt doesn't get any kind of special bonus to hit. It has a base hit chance of 80%, compared to 70% for Searer, 60% for Firebolt and for melee attacks. However, those numbers are all taken into account when the game displays hit rates -- I'm sure of that.

 

Edit for clarity: the point is, the number displayed onscreen takes into account both attack bonus and dodge bonus. It goes down if you increase Dexterity, and it goes up if you face an enemy with a better attack.

[Slariton]

Well, I used cheat codes to run the same test with an extra 4 points of Dexterity, and I got hit 5 times out of 100, which doesn't make any sense. I used cheat codes to add another 2 points of Dex and I again got hit 5 times out of 100.

 

I don't know what exactly is going on, but I have to conclude that dodging is too unreliable to be a worthwhile defense.

[Student of Trinity]

Ya know, I have always felt that those displayed percentage chances were unreliable. Things that say they should be very rare nevertheless happen a lot, and conversely too. My observations were always anecdotal and emotionally biased, but maybe this one is finally a clear proof, since the chance of a real 1% chance coming off 11 times in a hundred is one in a few million, I believe.

[Retlaw May]

Actually, if you actually do it out statistically the chances of it happening are .00000000000000000000009334722% of that happening by pure chance (thank you AP stats).

[Slariton]

Yeah, I've noticed that too.

 

The thing that threw me is that the numbers seem to be accurate in A4. I guess the engines aren't quite as similar as they seem, after all.

[chibi kaie]

Sorry for butting in, but doesn't your character more or less work? Eleven percent is pretty low. Even if you do get hit, shouldn't you have plenty of time to heal? So maybe you'd never get your character to the point where absolutely nothing would ever hit him/her, but ... it sounds to me like you're pretty close. It certainly sounds like you'd have a good chance of pulling through a fight.

[Slariton]

Unfortunately, no. In Torment, enemies hit for a lot of damage. Until you have heavy armor, good Parry skill, and spell buffs like Augmentation and Essence Armor, it's pretty hard to survive more than one hit. So any time there are multiple enemies attacking me -- which, for an Agent with no creations who can't pump Mental Magic enough to use Daze effectively, is going to be all the time -- there is a decent chance that I will randomly get hit twice in a row and die without being able to do anything about it. That's way too much save-and-reload for my taste.

 

This is compounded by the fact that the limited supply of good missile ammo means that most things will survive (and attack me) for multiple turns.

 

The other thing is that I'm not even at visible 1% against all the enemies I meet. This may get better over time, like when I find the +3 luck boots... but it already costs a boatload to increase the relevant skills. I get about 3 or 4% increase in dodge capability per level up, and it's dropping. I'm at visible 40% against Brutal Thahds, for example, and they kill me in one hit. That's just not good enough.

[MagmaDragoon]

Quote:

Originally written by Vlishnu:
Well, I used cheat codes to run the same test with an extra 4 points of Dexterity, and I got hit 5 times out of 100, which doesn't make any sense. I used cheat codes to add another 2 points of Dex and I again got hit 5 times out of 100.

I don't know what exactly is going on, but I have to conclude that dodging is too unreliable to be a worthwhile defense.

Excuse me, but can you try to add some points at luck? I'm just curious...