Anyone got both the iOS version and the PC version?

[rist]

How's it handle on iOS, comparatively?

[stubbieoz]

Game plays good on an iPad Pro 12.9” and an iPhone 8 Plus. No frame rate problems and tap controls are fine. The interface mainly works quite well on an iPad and iPhone.

Unfortunately I don’t have a smaller phone to see if there is an issue with smaller screens.

 

However, unfortunately I cannot recommend the game on iOS at all.

 

There are three reasons for this. They all concern information the player is given in battle. The first two are probably not a major thing but the third is.

 

1. The first is the fact that an enemies/characters name and distance from the active character show under your finger when you hold tap on them. You have to lift your device up to try and read under your finger to see what it says.

2. Second, enemies health bars get hidden by objects in the game. You are unable to see which enemy has the lowest health. This makes it difficult to prioritise which enemy to attack. You can get around this in the pc version by a right click, which leads to the most important omission,

3. The third is the fact that in the pc version you can right click an enemy and get details about it such as health/resistances/crit rating/etc. There is no such feedback in the mobile version. Basically this means that all tactical decisions you can make when attacking in the pc version is not available in the mobile version.

This breaks combat completely imho. 

 

I have emailed Jeff at the beginning of last week about this problem but at the time of posting here I have not heard back from him. I don’t know if it can be fixed by a patch or it simply cannot be done due to the new game engines limitation.

It is such a big thing for me that I am requesting a refund from Apple.

 

Whether it is a major problem for you is of coarse your decision. At least you have been warned.

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by stubbieoz
spelling

[Grimm]

On 12/13/2019 at 6:53 PM, stubbieoz said:

3. The third is the fact that in the pc version you can right click an enemy and get details about it such as health/resistances/crit rating/etc. There is no such feedback in the mobile version. Basically this means that all tactical decisions you can make when attacking in the pc version is not available in the mobile version.

This breaks combat completely imho. 

 

ehhhh, I got through most of the game before I even realized I could do that, and even when I did figure it out I rarely used it. It doesn't break combat so much as make it somewhat harder, and really is a feature lacking in most games. Getting exact precise stats on a weird creature never before seen by man the moment you run into it is unusual, even in games based around tactical combat. The tactical decisions still exist, you just don't have the tools to calculate exact percentages on how likely they are to succeed. Monster rarely have resistances high enough to completely negate a given tactic anyway. 

 

Your first point is a much bigger issue, imo.

[Randomizer]

Exile had a spell that would give monster information. It's mostly useful near the end on figuring out why the monsters keep evading and resisting some attacks.

[Lucidus]

Like Grimm, I disagree that #3 makes the game unplayable. None of Spiderweb's earlier Avernum games had this feature, and they were popular and lots of fun. You are entitled to your opinion, but I think asking for a refund because you would prefer different gameplay mechanics is a bit much.

[stubbieoz]

4 hours ago, Lucidus said:

Like Grimm, I disagree that #3 makes the game unplayable. None of Spiderweb's earlier Avernum games had this feature, and they were popular and lots of fun. You are entitled to your opinion, but I think asking for a refund because you would prefer different gameplay mechanics is a bit much.

 

Sorry but I believe you all missed the point I am trying to raise. You are unable to see an enemies health status at times in the iOS version.

The Steam version has #3 feature. The iOS version does not. At least in the Steam version if the enemies health bar is hidden you can still see its health by right clicking.

I wanted to warn the OP about the differences between the two versions, in case it happened to matter to them.

 

When an enemies health bar is hidden by objects and you have no feedback at all on whether a sticky stab with a dagger or a spine crushing with a lightning spell is called for, you break the tactical side of the combat. Especially in a game where mana is not replenished by potions or similar. In fact one of the “features” of this new engine as detailed in the advertising descriptions, is that you should only use spells when really necessary, as it is part of the new way combat works.

Not knowing an enemies health status is critical information. I originally tried playing on Veteran difficulty and it was nil impossible to win battles when the enemies hp bar was hidden, on iOS. This disability is not present in the Steam version.

 

You can tell me asking for a refund is a “bit much” if you wish. Of coarse I will disagree as I genuinely feel the iOS version is lacking a critical element of the game, and when I do get the refund I will consider if I want to buy the Steam version instead. The reason why I hesitate is because I don’t play games much on pc anymore.

 

Perhaps I am too hostile about this omission from the iOS version. Could be coming from the fact that the detailed email and screenshot about this concern of mine I sent to Jeff has not resulted in at the very least an acknowledgement of my email.

 

Or perhaps it’s just because I am sick to the back teeth of mobile games being dumbed down or having features removed for a more “casual” gamer.

 

Whatever the reason, I believe the iOS version should have the same gameplay/interface feedback, that the Steam version has. Just asking that things be fair is all.

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by stubbieoz
spelling, once again.

[osnola]

1 hour ago, stubbieoz said:

 

Sorry but I believe you all missed the point I am trying to raise. You are unable to see an enemies health status at times in the iOS version.

Does this happen more often in the iOS version than in the desktop version ? If yes, this would probably annoy me a lot. If not, I have finished this game in normal without knowing how to right-click and it was quite feasible ; since then, I have finished the game with greater complexity, I sometimes use the right-click on enemies: either to look at their starting characteristics (to plan a battle) or to guess if a enemy which is bleeding, ... will die or not on his next turn, but hardly never because I do not see an enemies health status.

 

1 hour ago, stubbieoz said:

Especially in a game where mana is not replenished by potions or similar.

I am not sure I understand this part, ie. if you have build enough apothecary shops, you can ask to convert the healing potions in energy potions which is really useful when you play a singleton (ie. in the last part of the game, my pack is almost full of energy potions)...

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by osnola

[Grimm]

7 hours ago, stubbieoz said:

 

Sorry but I believe you all missed the point I am trying to raise. You are unable to see an enemies health status at times in the iOS version.

The Steam version has #3 feature. The iOS version does not. At least in the Steam version if the enemies health bar is hidden you can still see its health by right clicking.

I wanted to warn the OP about the differences between the two versions, in case it happened to matter to them.

 

When an enemies health bar is hidden by objects and you have no feedback at all on whether a sticky stab with a dagger or a spine crushing with a lightning spell is called for, you break the tactical side of the combat. Especially in a game where mana is not replenished by potions or similar. In fact one of the “features” of this new engine as detailed in the advertising descriptions, is that you should only use spells when really necessary, as it is part of the new way combat works.

Not knowing an enemies health status is critical information. I originally tried playing on Veteran difficulty and it was nil impossible to win battles when the enemies hp bar was hidden, on iOS. This disability is not present in the Steam version.

 

You can tell me asking for a refund is a “bit much” if you wish. Of coarse I will disagree as I genuinely feel the iOS version is lacking a critical element of the game, and when I do get the refund I will consider if I want to buy the Steam version instead. The reason why I hesitate is because I don’t play games much on pc anymore.

 

Perhaps I am too hostile about this omission from the iOS version. Could be coming from the fact that the detailed email and screenshot about this concern of mine I sent to Jeff has not resulted in at the very least an acknowledgement of my email.

 

Or perhaps it’s just because I am sick to the back teeth of mobile games being dumbed down or having features removed for a more “casual” gamer.

 

Whatever the reason, I believe the iOS version should have the same gameplay/interface feedback, that the Steam version has. Just asking that things be fair is all.

 

 

I think you're expecting a bit too much if you want a quick, personalized response. We're getting into the holiday season, and hes been working hard on bugfixes for a while now. It's a mom and pop company, they dont have secretaries to do intake for them. 

 

Also, I dont think the iOS version is lacking features because its dumbed down: its because with a purely touchscreen based interaction, you have less to work with, and programming all the types of interactions you can do with a mouse and keyboard into a touch screen is genuinely difficult. Imagine trying to program a street fighter game for a controller with only one button. 

 

If the game is miserable for you and you dont enjoy playing, get a refund. But I do think your expectations are a bit off kilter and what you consider game breaking isnt going to generalize for most people.

 

Seriously, I'm really confused about why you think tactics is broken. Some games straight up don't give you the information you think is critical, even health. It's annoying sometimes, sure, and I'd rather play on PC, but I'm not seeing how it's broken.

[stubbieoz]

2 hours ago, Grimm said:

 

I think you're expecting a bit too much if you want a quick, personalized response. We're getting into the holiday season, and hes been working hard on bugfixes for a while now. It's a mom and pop company, they dont have secretaries to do intake for them. 

 

 

A fair point, but let me explain the expectation.

I emailed this shortly after I emailed Jeff about the iOS version not being optimised for the iPad Pro 12.9” 3rd Generation.

When a game is not optimised for that iPad you get a 6mm black band around the whole screen and the time/date/wi-fi battery charge icons are all showing.

The reason this is important for me? Because in every other Spiderweb game on iOS, this issue happens with the latest iPad Pro’s. And in their case the icons are sideways. It is rather distracting and you probably need to see it to understand why. Jeff has told me that he cannot find a way to fix it.

 

I specifically emailed Jeff, before I purchased the game, asking if the new engine would still have this problem. He said no, it was fixed.

When I bought the game it was not fixed at all.

I emailed Jeff and received a reply within 2 days saying that he would immediately put out a patch, which happened.

I guess I was just expecting the same courtesy this time.

 

Anyway enough.

I’m over all this.

I just wanted to warn the OP that the two versions are not exactly the same.

The amount of importance they put on knowing an enemies health status is up to them.

At least they have that information.

 

[stubbieoz]

8 hours ago, osnola said:

 

I am not sure I understand this part, ie. if you have build enough apothecary shops, you can ask to convert the healing potions in energy potions which is really useful when you play a singleton (ie. in the last part of the game, my pack is almost full of energy potions)...

 

 

You are correct that you do get mana potions later in the game as explained in the help section.

But just to clarify why I find this to be part of the missing enemy health status problem I have.

 

It takes some time to get enough apothecary shops built. In the earlier part of the game you have no way until then to replenish mana, except the game giving you a small replenish after each successful battle.

In the meantime experience is only gained in this game by killing dungeon bosses and completing quests. If you fail completing a dungeon you have to restart it but the enemies respawn and are tougher. The idea being that Jeff wants you to be more careful when it comes to using mana and spells rather than just power running through battles. A nice idea and I appreciate the added tactical component. 

However without knowing how much health an enemy has left it leaves you guessing whether to use a spell or not. 

Oh sure if a dungeon run goes all belly up you can just go back and load a previous save or even start using cheat codes. It is a single player game so thats all fine.

I just personally prefer to win combat though good strategy.

 

Anyway as I said above, I’m over all this.

It is an insignificant problem for others.

 

I have had my say and feel better for it. 

Thank you all for your points of view. 

 

[osnola]

Just two comments:

16 hours ago, stubbieoz said:

In the meantime experience is only gained in this game by killing dungeon bosses and completing quests. If you fail completing a dungeon you have to restart it but the enemies respawn and are tougher. 

I'm not sure I agree with this part; of course, if you can't finish a dungeon and you level up, the enemies' level will almost always increase, so if you can't buy new weapons, new armor, yes the enemies will be fundamentally harder. But if you don't level up, the enemies keep exactly the same characteristics (*). So in my first game, I almost always took a first stage that consisted only of mapping most of the dungeon and killing the first groups of enemies; then I came back with some strategy to try to kill the boss. In the latest games, I still do a lot of dungeons (about ~50%) in several stages, simply because some enemies don't reappear when they are killed or because it is possible to avoid a group before killing the boss (and I want to check all the chests).

 

The ennemies scaling is also interesting because it clearly changes my games, ie. as I want to at be level 19 when I do Tower of Nisse (to fight enemies at level 18), I skip some quests and a few easy dungeons just to avoid gaining too much experience. Of course, I complete these remaining dungeons before the end; for instance, in the last game, I completed Neil's Manse and Barb's Bastion only when I was at level 20 (as not to leave any pockets of resistance :-~).

 

(*) I just checked with a saved game: I killed the first group of enemies, I left the dungeon, I came back, the respawn group (and the following group) have the same characteristics as before.

 

16 hours ago, stubbieoz said:

Oh sure if a dungeon run goes all belly up you can just go back and load a previous save or even start using cheat codes. It is a single player game so thats all fine.

I just personally prefer to win combat though good strategy.

With a full party, even in torment, except Tower of Nisse and Dragon's Lair (which are very tough), I save very often but I don't often need to recharge the last backup. With a singleton, I need to reload more often ( in normal, maybe on average one reload for two dungeons ; in veteran, much more, on average maybe one reload per dungeon)...

Edited December 16, 2019 by osnola