Tenderfoot Thahd DarkXen Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Hello, I've been playing Geneforge 5 for awhile now and I was wondering what the max stat limit is for the characters. It would be helpful if someone will let me know. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: DarkXen Hello, I've been playing Geneforge 5 for awhile now and I was wondering what the max stat limit is for the characters. It would be helpful if someone will let me know. Thank you. If you're referring to the maximum possible value a stat can have, I believe it's 30. However, there is a "soft cap" at 10 where you start to get diminishing returns on your investment, and another at 20. If you're referring to level, the hardcoded limit is 61, but you'll probably only reach 50-55 by the endgame, depending on the class you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius If you're referring to the maximum possible value a stat can have, I believe it's 30. However, there is a "soft cap" at 10 where you start to get diminishing returns on your investment, and another at 20. That's only true for Geneforge 1. In Geneforge 5, stats can go up to 40 (although you probably won't actually get any above the mid-20s), and most stats don't have that kind of soft cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Vempele Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 You can't raise a skill above 31 but you can get bonuses from items. So the maximum Intelligence is 37 and there's no point raising any other stat anywhere near that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 The "soft cap" comes into play every 10 levels, not just at 10 and 20, but its effects are a bit inconsistent between 30 and 40, likely because 20 is an even number when going up from 10 by 2's, but 30 is not an even number when going up from 20 by 3's. I think the limit was still 30 for a while after G1, although I'm not 100% sure of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd DarkXen Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 What does "soft cap" mean? What does it do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Every skill point you buy from 1 to 10 gives you +1 in the ability. Every OTHER skill point you buy from 11 to 20 gives you +1 in the ability. Thus you only get the effects on 12, 14, 16, etc. Every THIRD skill point you buy from 21 to 30 gives you +1 in the ability, thus you get the effect on 23, 26, and 29. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 It's not an absolute cap on the skill, but it reduces the value of continuing to invest. —Alorael, who doesn't think soft cap is a particularly accurate description. There are diminishing returns, and rate of return on your skill point investment goes down every ten points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 It's traditionally been referred to as the 10-cap. Typically it applies to some but not all skills. I think cap is a fair descriptor, though, because it is usually not worth investing beyond 10 (or whatever will get you to 10, with items) in skills with the 10-cap. Parry is the only major exception I can think of, where investing beyond 10 can be useful despite the existence of a 10-cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S It's traditionally been referred to as the 10-cap. Typically it applies to some but not all skills. I think cap is a fair descriptor, though, because it is usually not worth investing beyond 10 (or whatever will get you to 10, with items) in skills with the 10-cap. Parry is the only major exception I can think of, where investing beyond 10 can be useful despite the existence of a 10-cap. Intelligence, Mental Magic, Spellcraft, and Mechanics are all worth pumping past 10 in at least one game, if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Yes. Most games don't have diminishing returns. G1 did, some skills maybe in later games. By G4 and G5, capping started much later if it was included at all. —Alorael, who thinks that's part of the games being larger. G1, like most firsts in series, is relatively short and has a relatively low level cap. Capping other things isn't so punishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S It's traditionally been referred to as the 10-cap. Typically it applies to some but not all skills. I think cap is a fair descriptor, though, because it is usually not worth investing beyond 10 (or whatever will get you to 10, with items) in skills with the 10-cap. Parry is the only major exception I can think of, where investing beyond 10 can be useful despite the existence of a 10-cap. Intelligence, Mental Magic, Spellcraft, and Mechanics are all worth pumping past 10 in at least one game, if not more. Those are all skills that have never had a 10-cap. The 10-cap mostly applies to defensive skills and in some but not all Geneforge games, to shaping skills. The 10-cap is never applied to bonus dice from skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Those are all skills that have never had a 10-cap. The 10-cap mostly applies to defensive skills and in some but not all Geneforge games, to shaping skills. The 10-cap is never applied to bonus dice from skills. Wait, really? I was under the impression that the increase in essence and energy was applied every 2 levels after 10 for points invested in INT, and likewise for damage dies in Magical attacks. Are you sure that's the case that it only applies to defensive skills? I was pretty certain it applied to all bonuses from skills, offensive or defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius Wait, really? I was under the impression that the increase in essence and energy was applied every 2 levels after 10 for points invested in INT, and likewise for damage dies in Magical attacks. Are you sure that's the case that it only applies to defensive skills? I was pretty certain it applied to all bonuses from skills, offensive or defensive. sorry bro, your impression came from nowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Dantius Wait, really? I was under the impression that the increase in essence and energy was applied every 2 levels after 10 for points invested in INT, and likewise for damage dies in Magical attacks. Are you sure that's the case that it only applies to defensive skills? I was pretty certain it applied to all bonuses from skills, offensive or defensive. sorry bro, your impression came from nowhere . Looks like I'll have to do another playthrough now that I know it's not wasting points to go from 10 to 14 in a skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Absolutely certain. Essence and energy increases come directly from formulas and take the raw Intelligence score. Damage dice always just add ability scores, they never reduce for 10-caps. When the 10-cap applies has varied slightly from game to game, but I tested thoroughly for it in A6, which can provide a good example. In A6 the 10-cap applies only to: - Quick Action - Lethal Blow - Dexterity (evasion bonus only) - Magical Efficiency - Luck (armor/resistance bonuses and evasion bonus only) - Defense - Gymnastics (evasion bonus only? not sure if it applies to initiative bonus; probably not) - Riposte (but NOT Parry: instead Parry had the 50% cap in this game) It may have applied to more things in earlier games, but never to bonus dice for attacks. The main shift I remember was G5 removing it from shaping skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Vempele Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 37 Int on a level 48 Lifecrafter = 1823 essence = 10 + 37 * (48 + 1), as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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