Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twelve Ways to Yesterday Facepalm, if you'll excuse my Slarty-speak. That last post also didn't need to be made. —Alorael, who thinks maybe this thread has played out. That would not be a terrible thing. DON'T LOCK IT! please? I still had some points to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Threads don't get locked unless it's necessary. We prefer that threads die a natural death. Dikiyoba isn't quite sure how you've managed to go so long without figuring some of this stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Oh hey, while we're on the subject of LotR, I'll just drop this article I found linked to by my favorite blog ever. Discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Threads don't get locked unless it's necessary. We prefer that threads die a natural death. Dikiyoba isn't quite sure how you've managed to go so long without figuring some of this stuff out. Avoiding education is my best trait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius Oh hey, while we're on the subject of LotR, I'll just drop this article I found linked to by my favorite blog ever.Discuss Personally I have always detested arguments like the D&D and Harry Potter lead to the Devil, etc., etc. What such arguments all overlook is that fiction is harmless SO LONG AS IT REMAINS FICTION. If you start harping on the succubi in the Nine Hells, then people will get sucked into the "dark side" of whatever fiction they are involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Real Satanism, as practiced by demons, is basically sociopathic. If people are falling for this it may be due to failings in the Church. Negative and unspiritual ministry&. It is not due to any fiction whatsoever. If people were properly spiritually mature they would not be harmed by any fiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Precisely my point. If people were mature enough to see fiction as fiction, things would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't know any demons, but there are people who really call themselves Satanists. A weird guy named LaVey started the movement, sometime in the 1960's I think. Honestly, their religion isn't that bad, though it isn't particularly admirable, either. You can Google the term to find their history and philosophy. None of it is especially shocking or disturbing. LaVeyan Satanism doesn't seem to encourage working for others. It's basically just brazen selfishness and hedonism, openly declared, though it does include a few strict prohibitions, notably one against harming children. It has nothing whatever to do with worshiping the Christian devil; to the LaVeyan Satanists, 'Satan' is just a metaphor. A Satanist neighbor would probably help you out if you were in trouble, but only if they liked you, because then they would feel like it. They would feel no obligation to help you just because you were a neighbor. You could be pretty sure they weren't going to bother you if you didn't bother them, but it would be a bad idea to get them mad at you. Like a lot of people who don't call themselves Satanists, really. Which I think is one of their points, that they're not worse than other people, but just more honest. As a Christian myself, I sometimes wonder whether, if Jesus were retelling the parable of the Good Samaritan today, he might make it about a Good Satanist instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 LaVey is indulging in Hollywood Satanism Lite. He is morally neutral, like a lot of people. This is a basically human philosophy that has nothing to do with the real thing: demonic Satanism as practiced by Satan himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity As a Christian myself, I sometimes wonder whether, if Jesus were retelling the parable of the Good Samaritan today, he might make it about a Good Satanist instead. Perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Well, Anton LaVey has been dead for a dozen years now, so it's not clear what he's indulging in at the moment. Nor would I presume to speculate about the philosophical convictions of any actual demons that might exist. Though for what it's worth, the Epistle of James states that demons are theists. Martin Luther famously called it 'an Epistle of straw' for its emphasis on works over faith, but I've always liked James. As far as I can tell this discussion is fine so far, but we should remember that these boards are really a marketing platform for Spiderweb Software, and not a public service. Anything that gets controversial enough to discourage potential customers will have to go somewhere else than here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Point taken. But we're here to enjoy a discussion, and if it wanders, you have to remember that that is what discussions do. Exception: debate clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Fflewddur Fflam, Drinker of Ale Personally I have always detested arguments like the D&D and Harry Potter lead to the Devil, etc., etc. What such arguments all overlook is that fiction is harmless SO LONG AS IT REMAINS FICTION. If you start harping on the succubi in the Nine Hells, then people will get sucked into the "dark side" of whatever fiction they are involved in. Um, did you read that article? It had nothing about Satan or the Devil or anything religious at all, whatsoever, in it. It was not arguing that LotR is leading our kids to sex, drugs, and rock and roll (Or rap or hip-hop or whatever the hell it is people think kids shouldn't be doing to these days. Violent video games?). It was arguing that the book is anti-industrialist Romantic-era propaganda that is stealthily undermining our society. Are you listening? This is important, so I'll bold it. You should care about this because it is still going on, and people need to be able to recognize propaganda when they see it. Remember the huge success of Avatar? Two, pushing three billion dollars, and it was essentially a piece of hackjob propaganda railing against industrialization, and I'll bet you that 90% of the people who saw the movie missed this because they weren't looking for it. Same deal with Star Wars- although SW was more in favor of political aristocracy as opposed to just anti-progress, though we do get a good deal of that in the prequels. And people, yourself and myself included, are still affected by propaganda, almost regardless of how smart or educated or affluent you are. If you think that for whatever reason you're special and immune, then, well, I've got a Reich to sell you, and you will be buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 I said nothing about Satanism, I was talking about misinterpretation of otherwise harmless fiction. I just gave particularly strong examples is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius Two, pushing three billion dollars, and it was essentially a piece of hackjob propaganda railing against industrialization, and I'll bet you that 90% of the people who saw the movie missed this because they weren't looking for it. Isn't this a couple of hundred years too late? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I agree that Tolkien's Luddite worldview was ridiculous. Nothing less than a thousand years old can ever be any good. Sheesh. And yet, as an old friend of mine (who died young of cancer) once convinced me, The Lord of the Rings is an astonishingly subtle book. I rather suspect it turned out more sophisticated than Tolkien himself realized. (For instance, practically every single character who learns that Frodo has the Ring reacts immediately with a nasty little speech about what a badass they are, and how lucky little Frodo is that they're a good guy. This may well have been just ham-fisted melodrama on Tolkien's part. There's no comment in the text at any point to suggest that this reaction is due to the Ring's character-warping influence. But it works nonetheless, or even better for not being pointed out: everyone who sees the Ring, no matter how noble, shows an ugly streak for a moment. Maybe if Tolkien had been a slightly better writer, he might not have done this as well.) Anyway, despite all the apparent authorial preaching about ancient glories, the fact is that in LOTR the ancient ways are not so much tragically doomed as pathetically sterile. Despite a lot of atmosphere and declamation about how great the old days were, the plot of LOTR runs much more the opposite way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Traditionalism runs strong in Middle Earth, it's true. And yes, that reflects the way Tolkien saw the world. But he was referring, as you pointed out, to the cultured points of the old days; he was not celebrating the old act of dumping chamber-pots out the window into a busy street, was he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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