Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Is it worth it to take the XP penalty for any of the (advantage) traits? I am going to be playing on hard for this game. I've always played under the assumption that xp penalties are a bad thing. What about the disadvantages are any of them worth bothering with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Traits make the game easier, and give you free points in various stats, making the level/SP reduction negligible at best. I usually go for DT on all of them, then EW, EW, PS, and NM on the warriors, priests and mages, respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Is your experience on hard or normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hard and Torment, but only for A5, seeing as A6 hasn't come out for windows yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 So for example a Slith starting with -20 XP penalty then adding another ~20 to equal -40 XP penalty works out OK? How exactly does the XP penalty work? I assumed it meant x% less XP per kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 No, it multiplies. Thus, a 20% slith with a -20% penalty would only have a -36% penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Quote: 20% slith What happened to the 80%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Having an exteme experience penalty works out just fine even on torment difficulty. Since Avernum 4 Jeff made it like Geneforge in that you get less experience for almost everything as your level gets higher. So having an experience penalty will mean a few less levels in the end, but you reach the less experience per monster slower. The difference between playing with the worst experience penalty and the best experience bonus for a party of 4 is probably about 4 or 5 levels. For the same traits a human gets 2 more levels than a nephil whp gets 2 more levels than a slith (10% XP penalty difference between each race). Now for those penalty traits, you get lots of nice skills that would cost more in skill points than those extra levels. The older games Avernum 1 to 3 did experience differently and bonus XP traits gave lots more extra levels to more than make up for the disadvantages to the characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: meAzuma Quote: 20% slith What happened to the 80%? I meant to say a 20% penalty slith. Fine, be picky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 The other thing to keep in mind is that you lose a few levels, but that by the late game the skill points you get from those levels don't go very far. Divinely Touched, on the other hand, keeps giving you increasing benefits. You get far more skill point savings from the trait than the value of the skill points you don't get to spend. —Alorael, who wonders if your characters can actually get into trouble if you select Good Constitution and Toughness. Those are truly worthless, non-scaling traits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 The problem isn't that they don't scale -- they give you percentage resistances, which effectively scale with your HP -- the problem is that the bonuses aren't big enough to justify taking them over another trait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Wow quite enlightening. I used to always take toughness and the other low XP penalty traits. My rational was to level all my characters out to around the sam XP penalty. Now I see that was a mistake. Thanks. Someone should put together a party creation guide, outlining what one should and should not do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: VCH Someone should put together a party creation guide, outlining what one should and should not do. Great start a flame war. You can't get us to agree on what one should and shouldn't do. Although Slarty is good at pointing out real stupid ideas in character builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Did you play Geneforge? Character creation an Avernum is different, and it's somewhat difficult to adjust to (for me at least). However, there is a much wider margin of error, so you should generally be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Randomizer Although Slarty is good at pointing out real stupid ideas in character builds. *beams* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Someone could at least make some suggestions about what core skills are and what traits do explicitly. I think there are some things that everyone can agree on. And those things would benefit the people that aren't into testing, micromanaging etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Trait effects! —Alorael, who can help with the simple traits. Strength + (melee/polearm) gives you the dice of damage. Dexterity + Bows gives you the dice of damage. Spellcraft + Magery + (mage/priest) gives you the bonus in the spells' formulas. Intelligence gives energy and Endurance gives health. For most other things, the answer is not so very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 VCH: It's in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Nullbuggery VCH: It's in the works. Excellent. Like I said it's not a question of what the best build is or isn't. It is a question of what the heck certain skills etc actually do beyond the brief explanation Jeff gives in game. I only ever play games once through, and I want to do everything, see everything and know what everything does. I'm sure others are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Actually, it's a really excellent suggestion to compile that all in one concise place. Not what I was thinking of but maybe I should do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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