How much time between G2 and G3?

[Milla]

I've been working on a Geneforge timeline again and I have hit a snag. I have no idea how much time has passed between the games because I have read through the scripts and no character was helpful enough to give even an estimate of how long.

 

All I know is the rebels have been hiding on the Isle of Spears for 'years' and Litalia contacted Hodge 3 years before. Oh and Litalia was around the PC's age when she renounced the Shapers. This puts it anywhere from 4 years to over a decade.

 

I know there are people here than love timelines and working out things so could I have some input on how long you think it is?

 

Only other thing I can think of is to start reading the G4 scripts and hope someone refers way back to G2 with any number of years attached.

[Drayk Armitage]

Geneforge 1

 

- "When the Shapers were here, when I was created, these ruins were already ancient and already infested with ghosts. The Shapers had just begun to explore them and try to learn their secrets when this island was Barred."

 

- "Even though it was built several centuries ago... a Shaper training hall."

 

- "These thick books contain a detailed ledger of supplies which have passed through here. You find one interesting thing. The dates indicate that this area was abandoned almost exactly 200 years ago."

- "Then, about two hundred years ago, the island was Barred."

 

- "This was once cramped workers quarters. Oddly, they don't look as old as the other ruins you have seen. Your best guess is that this place was built and used about a century ago. That is long before the outsiders came to Sucia Island and long after it was Barred. It's clearly Shaper handiwork. Who could have built it?" (not sure what this is from, it appears elsewhere re some tunnels.)

 

- Goettsch came "months ago."

 

 

Geneforge 2

- Captain Takena has been here "a long time. Years and years. I have been here almost as long as the colony has."

 

- "Forces were sent to deal with the situation. Some people were taken off the island. Some were killed. And Barzahl and I were sent to help with the cleanup."

 

- "They were loyal Shapers. They killed Goettsch and took control of the island."

 

- Zakary and Barzahl came to Drypeak "about five years ago."

 

- Ellhrah died "two years ago."

 

- Zakary and Barzahl schismed and Zakary reported Barzahl's death "about a year ago."

 

- Drypeak Village troubles started "about six months ago."

 

 

Geneforge 3

 

- "Dhonal's Isle was the first of the Ashen Isles to be settled, over a century ago."

- Isle of Spears "was charted about a century ago when the Ashen Isles were first settled."

 

- "Lord Rahul and I came to this island thirty years ago."

- "Who is Khyryk? An apprentice of mine and Lady Anjali's long ago."

 

- "My part in this story began a decade ago, when I arrived on Gull Island." (Khyryk)

 

- PC came to the school "years ago."

 

- Hoge met Litalia three years ago."

 

- Efforts to undermine Agatha began "about a year ago."

 

- Gretchen "was thrown out of the school a few weeks ago."

 

- "Not long ago, the monsters appeared on this island, on several of the Ashen Isles, if not all of them. This happened here about the time your school was attacked."

 

- Agatha rebelled against a few weeks after that?

 

 

Geneforge 4

 

- "Rivergate Keep. This fort was built about two centuries ago."

 

- "Think of the drakons, who did not exist a few short decades ago."

 

- Kyshakk "Only started appearing on the battlefield about two years ago."

 

 

Geneforge 5

 

- PC found by Drypeak and taken to Rawal nearly three years ago.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Slartucker

- "This was once cramped workers quarters. Oddly, they don't look as old as the other ruins you have seen. Your best guess is that this place was built and used about a century ago. That is long before the outsiders came to Sucia Island and long after it was Barred. It's clearly Shaper handiwork. Who could have built it?" (not sure what this is from, it appears elsewhere re some tunnels.)

That's from Diarazad (and by extension the Shaper Crypt).

Dikiyoba.

[Milla]

Thanks, I already had most of that stuff noted but the Drakon comment is very interesting. So would you say 20-25 years between G2-G4; (Using Loading screens) around 9 between G3 to G4. I can live with 10-15 year difference between G2-G3.

 

Thoughts?

[Drayk Armitage]

That sounds about right. The largest gap probably is between G2 and G3 anyway, given that there needs to be enough time for Litalia and Ghaldring to do stuff.

 

Something I left off G5 is the wars with the natives. They were 200-300 years ago depending on what part of Western Terrestia. Interesting as among other things, it means Rivergate Keep in Dillame is younger.

[Milla]

Ok, now we have a time period.

 

I'll keep that in mind. In G2 it mentions crypts that predate the Shapers by centuries.

 

This brings up the already asked questioned (I remember there was a topic) How did the Shapers colonise/migrate? When leaving Sucia did they take the long route and end up on the further away continent because it seems like they were in power for longer than 2-3 centuries.

 

Is Sucia Island actually north of the Ashen Isles as some assume?

[Drayk Armitage]

No. We know exactly where Sucia Island is because the G1 ending mentions that it is actually not too far from a city by the name of Dillame. So it's east of Terrestia.

[Dikiyoba]

Heustess actually says he has been waiting for "thousands of years", but that's a sketchy claim because he admits he doesn't really know how long it's been.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Drayk Armitage]

That's an excellent point. It opens up the possibility that the years given in the creation info sheets represent actual years since some date near the beginning of the Shaper empire.

 

Wow, that's a long time.

[Milla]

Over four Millennia? that really is a long time Pushes the timeline way back. I wonder where they started counting the years? When they alighted on the mainland? Their first successful conquering?

 

That also shows that tribes still living on Sucia were fairly recent as was the conquering of Terrestia.

Quote:

No. We know exactly where Sucia Island is because the G1 ending mentions that it is actually not too far from a city by the name of Dillame. So it's east of Terrestia.

 

That's my point if the Shaper Empire is a few milennia old and Terrestia was only conquered in the last couple of centuries, how come they started their empire on the other continent if they were off shore of the site of Dillame.

[pitchblack]

Because there is no canonical timeline and Jeff does as he pleases to make the games interesting! This isn't a book series, people.

 

Edit: I do not, however, have any objection to you making a timeline. Just felt that I has to point that out.

[Paladin95]

Quote:

>~2000 years before G1:
-A Sucia Island tribe discovers how to alter and create living things using magic.
-Declares war on other tribes to build empire.
-During this war Heustess is accidentally effectively made immortal. Becomes self-proclaimed guardian of his home.
-Due to to reckless shaping that created many diseases and monsters. Most of the tribe perished. The rest fled the island to the mainland to eventually become the Shapers.
2000-500 years before G1:
The other inhabitants of the island eventually die out.

Changing those dates to reflect something like 4000 years doesn't introduce any contradictions.

Maybe the surviving tribesman migrated west before eventually founding the society that became the Shapers and only later began settling the eastern world again. This is all rationalizations, of course, but it's as likely as anything.

[Acky]

Post g4, Jeff "forgot" about the second Continent.

[Shaper Erika]

Originally Posted By: pitchblack

Because there is no canonical timeline and Jeff does as he pleases to make the games interesting! This isn't a book series, people.

Edit: I do not, however, have any objection to you making a timeline. Just felt that I has to point that out.

What sort of nonsense is that? One expects a bit of internal consistency in any work of literature.

[Shaper Erika]

Originally Posted By: Milla

Over four Millennia? that really is a long time Pushes the timeline way back. I wonder where they started counting the years? When they alighted on the mainland? Their first successful conquering?

That also shows that tribes still living on Sucia were fairly recent as was the conquering of Terrestia.

Quote:

No. We know exactly where Sucia Island is because the G1 ending mentions that it is actually not too far from a city by the name of Dillame. So it's east of Terrestia.

That's my point if the Shaper Empire is a few milennia old and Terrestia was only conquered in the last couple of centuries, how come they started their empire on the other continent if they were off shore of the site of Dillame.

Hang on a sec, let's clarify something, as I haven't played Geneforge 5 yet.

What *is* the second continent? Is Western Terrestia the second continent?

[Lilith]

There is no second continent. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.

[Shaper Erika]

Why couldn't Western Terrestia be the second continent? South America and North America are separate continents.

[Lilith]

I guess it could be, but they're honestly more like Europe and Asia than North America and South America.

[Milla]

G3 says Terrestia (Not East or West) is one of two continents. Speaking of G5, is NW part of Terrestia in the game?

[Alorael at Large]

Yes. G4 and G5 give a fairly complete map of Terretia between them.

 

—Alorael, who at least sees how a landmass as big as Eurasia could be two continents. Terrestia's not that big. It would be more like arbitrarily calling Eastern Europe and Western Europe separate continents.

[Drayk Armitage]

Where does this infamous "second continent" reference occur? Is it in one of the endings? Batch find of the scripts for all five games turned up nothing.

[Lilith]

Terrestia is described at one point as the more recently settled of the two continents controlled by the Shapers. I forget which game it's in, but I think it might be in the intro, or at least early on.

[Acky]

The first one, actually. It says your going to help settle some new land with other shapers, learn what you can, and then go back east to the shaper "homeland". We know that Sucia Island is right off the coast of Teresita because you get two in-game texts. The first one is in the old shaper crypts in the southern part of the island, you see the land where you were supposed to go(Terrestia), along with a burning Sholai ship. In any of the endings, when your going back you get a text that says something like this:

 

Originally Posted By: Geneforge 1 ending

It turns out that you were not that far from the mainland at all. Sucia Island is only about fifty miles away. Fifty miles and two centuries

[Drayk Armitage]

I finally pulled all the intro and ending texts from G1-4 and put them in a file. The second continent is referenced twice, in the beginning and end of G3, but only in G3.

 

I think the real issue is the G4-5 were unable to represent the gigantic world described in the earlier games. According to the G3 ending, Poryphra housed 50,000 people! That hardly seems possible in G4. The Geneforge map system, like Ultima's before it, was just not designed to represent entire civilizations and continents.

[Drayk Armitage]

More info:

 

Geneforge 1

- Dillame is 50 miles from Sucia Island

- "There are a dozen Shapers there, working to tame this wild coast, populate it with friendly fauna, and make it safe for settlement."

- When transporting you from Dillame to the Shaper Council, they use a boat.

- Time between G1 and force sent to Sucia Island = time to get to Dillame by boat, time to get to Shaper Council by boat, "a few weeks" before being interrogated, then they send Agents to Sucia and word comes back after "a few weeks" = likely about 2 months between G1 and force being sent

 

Trajkov likes serviles

- "Trajkov is true to his word to the serviles. Surprisingly enough, he took a liking to the loyal and intelligent creatures. They are given full freedom and rights, elevated to the status of full humans."

- "Ellhrah, as always, insisted on independence and on his people being treated as equals. He need not have worried. Though the Takers hated the Awakened, Trajkov admired their spirit."

- "Trajkov was a man of his word. After he conquered the lands of the Shapers, he rewarded the Takers for their assistance."

 

 

Geneforge 2

- Both G1 and G2 state the PC is about to begin his "apprenticeship" - but in G1 it's a five year post at a remote colony while in G2 it appears to be just one mission with Shanti.

- Travel time from Drypeak to Shaper Council on foot is several weeks

- 9 people on council

 

 

Geneforge 3

- "And then, finally, you can see the mainland and Poryphra, the city you have been aiming for. And you see, instantly, that when the rebels spoke of destruction on the mainland, they were not just boasting.

Terrestia is the less settled of the two Shaper continents. Poryphra was one of the larger cities there. Over fifty thousand humans lived there, with many serviles and other creations. And it has been destroyed."

- "Diwaniya was allowed to continue to rule this remote island. While he would normally be punished for his ineptitude by being sent to an even more miserable place, it turned out that none existed." (hah!)

 

- Greta on Gull Island: "At first, it didn’t seem like things would be that way. But an outsider, a trainee who had failed to become an Agent, came there unbidden and befriended the serviles.

Since she was not actually a Shaper, they took her in, and eventually found her counsel to be useful. It was her calm words that helped the serviles and drayks work together and settle their growing differences."

 

 

Geneforge 4

- "The rebellion has been going for seven years. Three years ago, you left your village to receive training."

- "Your band is led by Greta, an officer in the rebellion. You have heard tales of her, how she has fought the Shapers since the beginning of the war"

 

The last two are important, as they address the time between G3 and G4. The time is 7 years at most, and probably not less; if the war had started someplace other than the Ashen Isles, the Ashen Isles would not likely have been quarantined, right?

[Milla]

Oooh this is good new information. I didn't know how to extract the beginnings and endings.

If the war began on the Ashen Isles the only thing that makes sense to me is that the Rebellion attacked eastern Terrestia at the same time as the Ashen Isles.

 

And taking out the biggest concentration of Shapers for hundreds of miles would make a great case for where the war definitively started. As well as the new and improved Drakon Geneforge.

[Drayk Armitage]

Same time is probably correct. Esp as the G3 ending makes it clear that war has already hit Terrestia. I guess the quarantine was set when there had only been isolated attacks, such as on the school.

 

It's kind of funny how many things had to happen for the drakons to get the geneforge.

 

First Danette and Corata had to make the geneforge, as apparently nobody else wanted it.

Defniel had to abandon, but not absorb, Rhakkus.

Trajkov had to come and shoot down Goettsch.

Goettsch had to cheat Trajkov and steal the Geneforge notes.

Rhakkus had to read Goettsch's notes.

A shaper had to report Sucia Isle to the council so that Zakary and Barzahl could be sent.

Barzahl had to transport Rhakkus away and augment him so that he could shape.

 

Of course other things were necessary as well, such as the help of other drayks and the takers, but all the items above were pretty much non-negotiable links in this chain of events. What an unlikely course of events...

[Txgangsta]

The 2nd continent has always been called the Sholai lands as far as i can remember.

[Drayk Armitage]

Actually, no, when the second continent is mentioned, it is mentioned as a Shaper continent; while the "Sholai lands" have never been referred to as any kind of continent (or described at all).

[Txgangsta]

Really? well i guess i havent been paying very good attention.

[Milla]

From what I recall the Sholai come from a single country across the western ocean and it's either really cold or hit at doesn't have much natural resources.