Dear Potato

Write an email to Jeff saying this. It won't have an effect by itself, but if a lot of people do, Jeff might take notice.

Sometimes, something like that goes trhough my mind but... I don't want to sound like a jerk or a mad fan to Jeff. I really admire his work.

But maybe you are right; maybe writing a simple, concise email about this particular topic, with a conciliatory tone could ring some bells. And if more than one of his fans do the same, who knows?

Thanks for the advice.

Right now, after some tries and experience, my only real grip is the level cap. I find myself terribly bored when I see my char at lvl 15, remembering the tedious battles that are before me, without any reward as experience or new levels...

I'm pretty sure I would not buy Avadon 3 if level cap is present in this form.

Not really. If you play on a lower difficulty throughout the game, you may have to buy equipment upgrades less often and spend fewer consumable items to get through, which means you'll have more money and items available for the actual fight, giving you an advantage over someone who played on the higher difficulty setting for the whole game.

Certainly, but nonetheless it would be nice if some kind of clarification showed up. Something like 'Beat X monster in hard difficulty (note: difficulty setting must be set at game's start)'

I understand why level cap is appealing for developers, but as it is in Avadon (specially in Avadon 2) half part of the fun is out of the game, precisely when it's reaching its climax.

I really hope that for Avadon 3, Jeff seeks for a compromise with this. Personally, I wouldn't impose any kind of level cap, but since it seems to be here for staying, maybe it would be nice to spice up things after you reach that cap -for example, every level above 30, gives you a random +1 to attributes.

Randomizer, what do you mean by "penetrating damage"? I always assumed that the skill just shielded from damage directly, apart from the cool down decrease.

I guess the idea about Shamans is flexibility. You are a resourceful mage of sorts, but also a decent long range fighter.

I didn't know, though, that magic based damage is blocked by a lot of enemies. I never felt shamans were very useful apart from healing spells; I think they need to be focused as healers/summoners more (and, as I said earlier, maybe trying to turn summonings a bit like shaping)

As long as the boats aren't as sloppy and boring as in Geneforge 3, they are welcome.

This is one of these cases in which a achievement/medal can mislead you. Don't get me wrong, my bad for not exploring further, but the fact that the medal "rewards" you for founding two tokens lead me to the concviction that there were only two of them in all the game.

I'm impressed that someone could actually beat him; I found it impossible. And I played on normal.

(...)

 

In short: if it's true that the Pact as presently constituted is doomed, and will probably fall to some combination of revolution, invasion and civil war in the fairly near future no matter what anyone does, then working with the rebellion starts to make sense, both in terms of personal benefit and as damage control. And there's ample if not overwhelming evidence in-game to support the conclusion that the Pact is in fact doomed.

You know... during 2/3 of the game I had this feeling of impending doom for the pact, but as the plot unfolds, and you see the true extent of the rebellion -both wyldrim and tawon-, the farlanders threat turns to be less impressive than it seemed at first. They go from a mysterious and godlike smart bunch (Dheles) to a little band of overly dependent commandos. Despite Konstina's bragging and Dheles suposed brainpower, both are defeated or terribly scared.

I'm saying this because I think that given this set of events, what it truly seems to be killing the Pact are the internal affairs; if the scope of this "affairs" could be diminished, probably the pact and avadon would survive.

Then again, after playing Geneforge, seems clear that Jeff's intentions are similar to what the Shapers must endure during the saga.

Alberich: if Svorgald is what is left from Sholai people, what a sad outcome for them... I always perceived the Sholai as a refined society. And Svorgald, at least for what the codex says, it's more or less a dark version of Monkey Island pirate society.

And Shapers = Vahnatai, so the sequence is Avadon -> Geneforge -> Avernum. Right? Right.

Oooor, maybe the Shapers turned themselves into big machines with the help of tinkermages and all of them turned into the first reaper! Mass Effect is the sequel to Avadon!

Soooo, in fact, the sequence is Avernum -> Geneforge -> Avadon -> Mass Effect.

I also picture Nathalie locking herself up in some tower. Maybe she claimed the huge tower from Khemeria. At any rate... I was expecting to see something about the old companions. Greta and Alwan were nice surprises back then when I played the Geneforge saga.

Maybe we can expect Nathalie as one of the optional super-hard battles in Avadon 3? That would be cool, and, also, a good excuse for justifying her presence. Nathalie makes a tower of horrors and uses Yannick as his mad-commander...mmm, the more I picture, the more I like it

Also, one thing I didn't mention earlier: I can count up to two allusions to Geneforge saga in Avadon -one place, don't remember where, that some weird goo turns to monsters, and the text says something about forbbiden magic that creates life. And, well, when Yannick speaks about the potential magic that the countless past civilizations could gather, he says something like "It's even possible that the old magic could create life!".

Also, it's possible that I'm seeing much more than what it is really there...but the faint allusions turn the idea of Geneforge being some kind of prequel for Avadon too attractive.

Seeing a lot of final impressions and reviews at the forum lately and, since I've recently completed the game myself, I thought it would be cool to create a thread for posting the final impressions/reviews in one place without spoiler restraining. So, post your own if you feel in the mood

Let's start then; as always, I would like to say that I'm not exactly english fluent, so my apologies if this text becomes a grammar mess. I'll do my best.

Avadon 1 was my first spiderweb game. Despite some flaws, I became bewitched by the game, loving it as one of the best viodegame surprises I had in years. After some fiascos with Bioware, it was very refreshing to experience an incredibly well written game with an oldschool vibe so well implemented. So, after that, I wanted to experience more of Jeff's universe, and bought Avernum Eftp and the Geneforge saga. More or less, I loved them all (altough I must admit Avernum's rpg style is not exactly my cup of tea; I'm more inclined to Avadon or Geneforge). When Avadon 2 was finally in GoG, I purchased without blinking -my expectations were pretty high.

So, before trying to summarize my impressions, I'm going to say that I loved Avadon 2 as much as the first one. Without doubt, I've become a Spiderweb fan, and I will be around here looking for new games as long as it exist. So, despite the complains and criticism that I'm going to present, I really, really liked the game.

The Good things

• The plot general idea and cadence are better than in the first one; some nice twists here and there, and also better presentation in almost every aspect. The reverted image of Redbeard in the sequel is a fresh surprise after the godlike aspect Avadon1 inserted. Also, how your character rises from a low scout to a legendary Hand feels much better than the "Miranda plaything" it turns to be in Avadon 1. The Corruption and Tawon parts were specially interesting.
  
• As always, boss battles were amazing. Despite some annoying scripts, they were always fun and challenging in the best sense. The four optional bosses were way better than Zephirine, Belloch and Mr.Redbeard-souljars inferno. The final moments with that wind infernal were specially satisfying.
  
• Great characters; the cast of companions is both interesting and creative. How the relations with them could turn to be...well; I never expected that outcome with Yannick turned into some kind of deranged chaotic wizard. Also, their personal quests, despite ones being better than others, always put some strong moral choice that made me think and rethink the decision. Yhosiria quest, for example, it puts on the table not only your loyalty to Avadon, but also a sense of survival that is very interestingly resolved at the epilogue.
  
• Tinkermages are very welcomed. Completely unexpected for me, also. I find them original and very, very fun to play. It also adds some flesh to Dharam, probably the less developed country in lore terms in Avadon 1. The idea of engineering crossbow turrets in the tide of battle is bold, but it results in a very creative and interesting tactic approach.
  
• The sense of urge, that feeling of Avadon being in critical times, with new active parties directly present, like the Hanvar council envoys, trying to hinder the black fortress... all the ambience felt very natural and a logical consequence of the first Avadon; that remind me of Genforge games, since despite this pesimistic feeling about the "lawful" forces, you can actually align with them and make the difference; in that regard, the epilogue does a great work giving the feeling that our choices mattered.
  
• The confrontation with Miranda, following her through The Corruption. One of the most irritating aspects from Avadon 1 ending was the inability to confront her to the end. So, that fight at the core was very satisfying. It also concurs with one of the most interesting plot parts, where the "grey" morals that usually decorate Spiderweb's games reaches an intense conundrum.
  

The not so good things

• As always, the absence of OST. It really hurts everything. I would really, really, really love to see a Spiderweb game with OST some day.
  
• Despite the fact that the corruption and its expanse in plot terms were welcomed, I cannot stop thinking that it has been a lost opportunity. The core part, with the different visions that turn to be ¿false? illusions, and conclude with the exact same text lines (something about discovering corruption's origin) felt a bit disappointing. I understand that the ambivalence was at play here... but I somewhat feel it could have been much more exploited.
  
• Silke was welcomed; I think that all in all, the romance experiment was well developed and handled...until you reach the climatic point. I understand why Silke is only romanceable if you become a traitor, but I didn't liked it. I would have appreciatted the chance to have a romance while being loyal to Avadon.
  
• The level cap kills one of the most fun parts about rpgs. I didn't liked it in Avadon 1, and I don't like it in Avadon 2. Even worse in this sequel, since it is attainable much earlier than before. More or less, I was at level 30 at Konstina's final quest. I think Jeff should look for some kind of alternative for this; just stoping the player progression really hinders the experience. I understand the benefits for doing it from a developer's eye... but for players it just feels weird, adding monotony to what it should be the climatic parts.
  
• The absence of older Hands from Avadon 1 feels... weird. Just a vague mention from Miranda, and complete silence from everyone else. I'm not saying that future Avadon games should become a cameo party, but it would be a nice surprise to know what happened to some of the characters, not that they just vanished from Avadon's universe.
  
• I understand why Redbeard is going to a secondary role for future Avadon games... but I really think he still has a lot of potential to become one of these legendary videogame characters. I really hope Jeff does not completely abandon him. One of the few things that I don't liked from the epilogue is Redbeard's fate... he just disappears or dies?
  
• Trash mobs are way too abudant. This gets specially irritating since the level cap is reached way too soon, too, and these fights become terribly monotonous.
  

For the moment, that is all I can remember. I would add more things later, since I have the feeling I'm forgetting something important .

You can enter combat mode earlier, then move into the combat area.

That's even more tedious.

The problem would be solved if summoned beasts were controllable outside battles.

Thanks! I'll update the installation then.

6 - What's the matter with the Sorcerer?

The same that happens with other classes: their skill trees don't have any new addtion; I was expecting new spells, that's all; so, one of my wishes is that new spells are present in the future third installment. I'm aware this is somewhat... aggresive with game's balance, but after playing Geneforge games, it was always nice to see new spells for almost every new entry.

Also, I like classic spellcasters as the soreceress.

7 - This has been mentioned many times, and affects every character.

Well, then better for me. More people complaining means I'm not alone in my idiocy

9 - Not sure what you mean.

Summoned beasts in Avadon are uncontrollable outside battles -this makes tactical approaches to some battles a bit tedious; it's a annoying to summon a Drake before the battle starts only to see it run far away from the group's position.

10 - These exist and are called specializations.

I'm afraid I haven't explained myself clearly, or you have misunderstood me. What I'm refering to is the max level cap and what this makes to character progression: you just hit the level max cap and with that, growing your PC ceases to be fun (in fact, it ceases entirely); hence, I suggest or wish an alternative: that reaching high levels do not end with the max level cap alone, but with some extra bonuses for dedicated players that achieve this point in the character progression. Maybe something like... for every 1000 exp points you earn after the max level, you gain an extra bonus relevant for your class choice.

Mmm, the GoG update just puts a new installation executable.

If I reinstall the game, the savegames would be compatible?

My wishlist top:

1 - Actual OST. My main and most annoying problem with all Jeff's games. If not a complete soundtrack, something that fleshes out battles. A good piece of music could do wonders for boss battles.

2 - Non-combat skills aside from lockpick; specially something like leadership from Geneforge, diplomacy, or anything in that line.

3 - The aforementioned toggle for windows - i opens inventory and ALSO closes it. That would ber very very welcomed.

4 - Also mentioned before: bigger fonts for every text; letters that match resolutions.

5 - Less trash mobs. Don't get me wrong: I think they are justified... it's just that I wish there were less hordes of them.

6 - Upgraded skill abilities/spells for Sorceress. I know that this implies lot of changes for every other classes... but hey, those are my wishes

7 - Magic missiles from Soreceress/shamans showing true range when hovering the cursor at enemies; as it is now, it's a matter of guessing if the character is at the right distance for shooting.

8 - Unique crafting/blessing stones that grant special bonuses for equipment.

9 - Summoned beasts as companions a la Geneforge, not just timed allies that have a hard time following up the group (also, that summonings and turrets are counted as different entities for the summoned creatures cap).

10 - Special bonuses for characters that reach a certain level, instead of just throwing a level cap.

I wasn't expecting being in the minority! I really like the new design over the older one.

The old guardian looks like a mix between a templar and a spanish folclorical dancer. It's just weird! The new one seems more like a warrior, despite the weird moustache face!

Well, I have had some time to actually spend with Avadon 2, and here are some of my first thoughts:

-So far, the story is intriguing. Nice touch Silke, and the beggining as a mere "pact soldier". It adds a different perspective. I'm guessing things will escalate sortly, though.

-As always, battles are addictive and well planned (if not excessive in some parts). Little bosses and tough enemies posed a real threat even in normal; so far, I feel the game harder than the first one.

-Impressive artwork and cool little additions to overall graphics. Splendid music at the menu -It's a sad thing, as I said days ago, that the game has no OST. Also, I liked that the codex almost always brings some new info to it, even with older entries, that reflect events in Avadon 1.

-As much as I like the gameplay flow, I somewhat miss alternatives to battle, sometimes. Something like the Leadership in Geneforge. Or maybe puzzles.

-I was expecting some form of novelty for skill trees. I played as a Sorceress, and I was a bit disappointed to see the exact same skills again. Although, the not-so-thight dependant skills are very welcome, along with the tinkermage and the turrets/mines!

-And finally, not sure if I should post this here -maybe there is a thread for bugs and I haven't noticed it- but my Soreceress lets aout a man cry when she dies; it's... baffling.

Soooo, all in all, I'm loving the game

Fine for torment? Or should I go for hard

You can try to play on Torment and see if you are confortable with it; at any point in the game, you can switch to lower difficulties without restarting.

Is the setting below torment challenging? Most rpg's I find are fleshed out enough to allow many different builds to work even on the hardest setting, but if I need to use specific builds for torment in Avadon i'd rather just play the next lowest setting, or not play at all if my options are either challenge with specific builds or no challenge but freedom to go with your own build.

 

Also, so if I play on iPad, I will likely be missing alot of these secret door switches? I didn't see this mentioned in iPad reviews I checked out, will this be a pain for me? What does missing these switches mean gameplay wise?

Then, by all means, I suggest you to play in Hard difficulty (one step before Torment, that does not allow, in my opinion, the "build freedom" you are after).

In the hard difficulty setting things get tougher and tougher as game develops, but you can beat every battle, even the secondary-extremely-demanding ones with every build you can imagine. I recently played in Hard with two sorceress and one shaman, trying to make builds different from usual; the game was challenging, but never impossible. Keep in mind, though, that the first two missions are relatively easy. But, from that point, things start to get messy.

Secret switches are basically bonus prizes and extra objects. In a few cases, detecting the switches is necessary for completing secondary quests. Right now, though, I'm not sure if any part of the main quest requires to see them...

Glad to see more people liking the writing But also sad because I always feel I'm the only one missing an OST when talking about spiderweb games

This is feature, not a bug Jeff said somewhere he doesn't like music in his games, so I had no such expectations. If silence is really painful to you, you can always play some music in the background - I believe there were even threads in those very forums dedicated to music people choose while playing Spiderweb games.

Well, romances were not present directly in any spiderweb before so... why not music?

I know that Jeff said somewhere, some day, that its occurrence was very unlikely, but, since it remains as my main problem with his games, I always keep the faith that someday, he will put optional music.

And yes, I myself created a thread in wich I asked about music to hear while playing Geneforge. I do it most of the time when playing any spiderweb game; unfortunatelly, it's a poor substitute. What makes music a great part of videogaming is that the themes merge perfeclty with the gameplay flow. That's very tiring to do manually while playing, and frankly makes the experience more irritating than anything. But, of course, I'm only talking for myself.

Potato - the flip side of Jeff's writing is that usually the text is optional; you can complete the game with minimal attention to the storyline. This sometimes gives the player an illusion of choice without any real choice, as in Avadon one, where whatever choices you make throughout the game, the ending is largely the same regardless.

I see that point; but I don't understand why this has anything to do with writing. More than a writing problem, it seems a gameplay issue to me. There are good ways to write videogames without real choice and good ways to write games with real choice.

Anyway, I think it's just a very subjective topic.

Well, I'm very excited about Avadon 2, and I purchased it the minute I saw it at GoG. Avadon was my first Spiderweb game and I somewhat feel that Lyneaeus is some kind of second home for me

The new features, along with the polished interface seems great; all in all, I'm sure I'm going to enjoy the game.

The only grip for me is that, as always, I was expecting a change in background music or a subtle OST. By far, is the most annoying and worst element in Jeff's games for me. To the point that I can't stand long games sessions. The background sounds and silences get on my nerves.

By the way, I don't really understand why some people criticizes so hardly Jeff's writing; maybe it's because I'm not english fluent, but that aspect is precisely why I love spiderweb games so much. I mean... I think spiderweb games have very good writing; much better than the vast majority of high budget games out there. And certainly Avadon was not an exception to that.