Paladin95

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Again, you just leave your creations standing at the docks at the end of G1. You don't absorb them and it doesn't effect any future shaping you do. Unless you become so much more powerful that the tied-up essence is negligible? Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Honestly, I think the essence tied up in creations and used in spells is more of a representation of mental fatigue than actual essence use. That said, I find this explanation more satisfactory on account of the various shapers you meet with around 200 hp but controlling a huge army of creations inconsistent with the essence they would have at that kind of level (i.e. G3 Shaper Diwaniya).

Pitchblack makes a valid point: that much progress on the whole is a results of the "trickle down" of luxury. That this creates a disparity in socio-economic classes does not make it immoral. In fact, because manipulation of others is the primary cause of said socio-economic disparity, we can reasonably conclude that it is the manipulated who get the short end of the stick materialistically. But if they are weak-minded and easily manipulated, they also lack the ability to decide for themselves if their level of material comfort is above that of the average human being. So long as they are led to be happy with what they have, they will be. Can a process really be immoral if it results in emotional satisfaction?

We live in a culture in which despotism is generally reviled and has been steadily declining for centuries. Clearly the ability to manipulate the weak-minded has lead not to the concentration of power (the type of immorality you reference with Hitler), but rather to the dissipation of power. This is so much the case that in civilized society as we know it the manipulated vs. the manipulator has become nearly the only distinction between human beings. Being very nearly the same, these people can be (and generally are) regarded as essentially equal in value. All other class distinctions (i.e. socio-economic) fit well along the lines of those who do manipulate others (the wealthy), those who are not often manipulated (the middle class), and those who are often manipulated (the poor). That these can sometimes be self-perpetuating is beside the point. Furthermore, the continually rising standard of living over the last ten-thousand years is evidence that the ability to manipulate others has in fact been used for the good of humanity rather than to damage it. I thus maintain that manipulation is not only inherently moral, but that it tends to be used for moral purposes. Any immoral uses of control are the exception, while benevolence (or at least mutual benefit) are the rule.

Originally Posted By: Slarty Awesome work Milla! Q4E If Drayks were barred by 4053, then that's about the latest date Sucia Island could have been barred. The time difference between G1 and G2 can't be too great, because Zakary and Barzahl hadn't been in Drypeak for more than a few years (see: "trapped" reference in conversation with herbalist in the city of Drypeak). Since the ending of G2 is the around birth of Gahldring, we can safely assume that at least two decades passed between the end of G2 and the start of G3. And we know that G3 is between 4119 and 4128. Given the "2nd Design" of the Rot, and assuming that the 1st design was the G2 version and the 2nd was the G3 version, I would date G3 to the year 4128, putting G4 at 4229-4231. Working backwards, that gives us something like: G1: 4053-4080 G2: 4073-4108 G3: 4128 G4: 4130 G5: Shortly thereafter? EDIT: Slarty's edit pushes G4 back at least another 3 years.

As the devil's advocate, I turn the argument that destruction of the individual is immoral. In an instrumentalist sense, the destruction of the individual is morally and ethically correct. The consensus appears to be that those who are most often manipulated are those who don't think and thereupon act. People who do not think make bad decisions which are a detriment to society. That they are manipulated is an act by which these bad decisions can be avoided, thus benefiting society.

I'm no computer programmer, so, please, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like a fairly easy idea to program if you keep the functions simple. All you would really need is the ability to generate NPC Serviles that will roam a specified area, similar to the NPC's that already exist. You can talk to them, and when you tell them to complete x task it will take z time to complete based on the number y of Serviles that are working on it. After that time is up, the item shows up on the map in the place you designated. It's not a whole lot different than how the school in G3 gets cleaned up as you progress through the game, except the prompts for the change to occur are caused by a talk node with a Servile instead of a plot element. EDIT: And being able to ride Drakons would be sweet, but I don't see a Drakon consenting to that, whether you control them or not. Maybe being able to shape some sort of horse-like creation to act as a ride and/or a pack animal?

Quote: I also think that A Shaper dose eventually want a home. Why not the ability to make bases? You know, Essence pools, Thorn bushes, your alchemy supplies? Things that you want safe? or Maybe you got so much Wiry moss, and you want to make a batch of Healing slaves? maybe you can throw in some home security Shaper style? Or you have a powerful creation but you want to make a different one for the Puzzle up ahead, You can put him into storage.[/QB] I've been contemplating making an account here for a while now, and this is an idea for the Geneforge series that I really feel needs to be developed further. I've played and loved all four of the previous Geneforge games (most to every possible ending) and have missed having your work actually recognized beyond just a gifted item here or there. Really, even though you could kill the people you're working for, you never actually have any real power. This kind of idea could be developed to suit both the solitude Shapers tend to enjoy and the raw power that comes with their status. Envision this, if you will: at some point in the game the PC becomes a truly powerful individual, and they are able to create Serviles in a designated area the will build for them. This could be an abandoned fort that you clear out and then claim as your own, a forest that you decide on, or any other area in the game that isn't already inhabited. You can then create Serviles as you would any other creation; however, these serviles cannot leave this area or do anything other than build. You can direct your Serviles to build a wall, tunnel, small bridge, shaping platform, or furniture, even. Each task would take the Serviles a certain amount of time to complete, and this amount of time would be the same if you sat around and watched or went off to do something and came back. As you grew stronger, were able to create more Serviles, etc. you would eventually create your own fortress, which parties you have angered can launch occasional assaults on. These assaults would damage the building and whatnot, leading you to need to reconstruct it. It is your home, more or less. Other ideas for what Serviles could construct would be alchemy vats, shaping vats, and a throne for you to sit on while you command your creations to repel attackers from afar. You could shape turrets, pylons, spinecores, and other stationary creations are permanent sentinels to fight while you're away, and have a Servile messenger who comes to tell you when you're fortress is under attack. It's not a center focus of the game, but it would add an extra and dinamic dimension to it that makes it much more interesting.