Delicious Vlish

I just cleared the vlish infested ruins and killed another unbound. Killed the dryak there. He posed more of a challenge than the unbound did. It is getting a little harder, finally. I have turned level 30, my skills are starting to mature a bit, but I am really nothing more than a healing battery for my goon squad. I do occasionally cast terror just to pretend I am being useful. And, by the way, what is the point? I am curious. I don't see how the sorceress can make a strong shaper. Am I missing something?

No I didn't. Until you reach high levels of shaping, there isn't a lick of difference between level 3 or level 5 of shaping skill. A sorceress can not devote to much to shaping or else she cuts off her nose to spite her face. It all averages out. Average overall ability. The servile's turtle mage status tilts the field in his favour.

I just took down my first unbound, at possibly the lowest level I've ever done so. Not even level 30 yet. And you know what? It was easy... On torment. G5 shaping feels like G1 shaping.

A sorceress couldn't do this. Sorry. Anyhoo... I went hunting in the swamp for some bandits. Dimwit and Numbskull, my two alphas, remain under my control for now. Eventually, I will have to control my creations, as I will need to maneuver them around fire tiles in the stoneworks. The bandits didn't know what hit them. Hasted plated bugs are scary. Really scary. It was over quickly. Then I went over to check out the local artilla infestation. I was busy mopping those up, when who should appear... An unbound! It was on like donkey kong! I was kinda busy fighting artillas when he appeared, but that was ok. I have enough beat-down in a can to go around. I mean, he was just begging for a fat lip. Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others! My bugs ran him down. Major advantage to battle creations, they can box in a foe, forcing them to use their melee attack. Unbound have a nasty ranged assault. But up close and personal? They are pussy cats. Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others! They boxed him in. And when they did, it was OVER. One unbound down, many, many more to go. You can see how much damage the alphas can do. His melee attacks were weak and ineffective, pathetic and sad. He had a hard time connecting against the plated bugs actually. I'm still being hunted by artillas. They are, at this point, a minor annoyance. I will deal with them later. It takes a long while, but the unbound goes down. He has a lot of hit points, and it takes a while to whittle him down to size. Delicious does about a 100 damage per hit. (maxed strength already) At this point, I am undecided what to do, but I am considering a full on assault of the unbound nest in the ruins. There is stuff in there I want. I wouldn't mind a glaahk to go with my bug collection. There are a few canisters I want. Several directions I could go. I might go wipe out the Trakovite safehaven. I think it can be done. The shadow road has some stuff I want too... Just not sure where to go at the moment.

I just destroyed Kaz. I razed it to the ground. It was... Easy. To easy. I created two corrupted thahds... I was oh so very wrong about charged creations being worthless... Corrupted thahds when summoned at a high level of battle shaping are like mini-rots. Absolutely stupid acid damage. They wrecked the servile barracks, going in there and pretty much cleaning the whole place out by their lonesome. One died of violence, the other was allowed to expire. I also picked up two battle alphas. I don't know what to say. The difference between a low level alpha summoned by a part time shaper and somebody who has a level 11 battle shaping... Alphas had over 300 hit points and consistently hit for about 60 to 80 damage in melee, a little less against physically resistant foes. They hit harder than the plated bugs. They also shrug off damage quite well. Not sure what I will do next. I might go unbound hunting...

Look at the picture. And look at the tiny dent of damage on the rot after a few rounds of sustained pummeling. Had this been normal or easy, that'd be a dead rot. Greta in that picture had already taken hundreds of points of damage, and it barely dented her. She's poisoned, covered in acid, and has been slammed with vlish bolts, ice bolts, and a few stings. Figure it out on your own.

Entering Penta, I ran into Greta. She is an insufferable pain in the neck, always preaching on this or that. There is an option where you refuse to let her by. I paused for a moment, considered that this is torment, and Greta is probably a tough nut to crack... I thought about it, and then I refused to let her by. FIGHT! DING DING! I used my only chaotic aura spores, used some speed spores, and we got busy. Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others! She summoned a rot. That was probably the worst thing that could happen... Right? WRONG! She summons more rots and an ur glaahk for kicks and giggles. Mind you, I'm low level. I've barely entered into the Mara areas. I just completed the Murkwood bandit quest. So how strong are battle creations exactly? I cast terror on the rots and I started to find out. Plated bugs and clawbugs are very different critters. Plated bugs make excellent shock troops. They can run down almost anything in a turn and give it a good poke. Clawbugs don't need to run something down, provided they get in one good sting. Greta is a runner. She likes to run away, summon a critter, and then cast searer. Which does poison damage, might I remind you, and clawbugs are pretty much immune to poison. So there are terrorised rots everywhere, servile guards, ornks, that learned fellow comes out of the building to see what the ruckus is, and it is utter and complete chaos. I burn off a few charges of my corruption baton. I am horribly outnumbered, and my creations are waking up the whole map randomly selecting targets. Greta is still running around willy nilly, casting and summoning, and it is pretty much the worst possible situation you could imagine. Absolute anarchy. The learned fellow, he has an area of effect attack that does like 150 to 200 damage per cast. Ouch! The cryoa bites it. It takes more damage than it has health. But the bugs, dang, it is like a scene in Starship Troopers. The bugs are winning! There are bugs all over the map, there is poison and acid everywhere, and things are dying. Rots are dying. The bugs are surviving. Greta finally dies. Serviles are dying. The rots are taking awhile because they have parry, but they are dying. There are some roamers that enter the fray. They are torn to pieces in very little time by a pair of plated bugs. I lose a clawbug somewhere near the end due to acid. I couldn't travel far enough to heal it. It was very, very far away. And finally, nothing moves. The learned fellow drops a key and a fantastic bit of armor, perfect for my shaper. The rogues are purged. Battle shaping is utterly deadly now. In fact, I'd say it is grossly overpowered compared to the other two branches. I'd even go as far to say that battle shaping might need a bit of nerfing... Except that it was weak for so long, so it deserves a moment in the sun, in the final game, as a final kick off. The fact that my bug swarm took out Greta, her summons, and an entire village of serviles, including the annoying servile vets, who kept healing everybody and everything, says quite a bit at how much things have changed.

Yes. Exactly that. No control over them. In previous games, it was suicidal to do on torment, well, mostly. Most creations were to fragile and didn't get into defensive positions or keep rank and file. Now, battle creations are absurdly beefy... There is no need for rank or file so far, no defensive stances, no well organised pack. Just swarm the enemy and they will die. At least in the early game. This is bound to change sooner or later, right? Edit: The cryoa (my second, the first died) has almost died a few times. It is to fragile. If I had pumped fire shaping more, it might be a bit more durable, but I have a strange feeling of doubt about that. I'd need to turn AI on to manage a cryoa pack.

I plan to raise fire and magic shaping through items and training. (Alwan) I have plated bugs. Plated bugs started over 300 hit points, level 30ish, and with the AI off, they are brutal disgusting horrifying creatures. Mixed with clawbugs, a lone cryoa, and a vlish named Delicious, (what else?) I have taken to calling my mob "Creeping Death." Never, ever, even with an Agent romping around at full power, have I ever had this easy of a time on torment. I am running around, essentially on auto-pilot, destroying anything and everything I've encountered so far. I am about to go and wipe out my first servile village. I don't know if it will be Penta or Kaz... I want access to battle alphas to see how they do. I've also got to clear out the Murkwood bandit bunch. Most of the time, I don't even need to cast blessing. Stuff is already dead, or near death by the time my turn rolls around. So there is no point at all in casting much of anything. My shaper mostly just stands there picking his nose. Antonia, the bandit in the inn, she went down under a swarm of clawbugs, a cryoa, and a roamer I made for kicks and giggles. The roamer is gone, replaced by a vlish. I think I am going to clear the shadow road the hard way... No necklace, just violence and lots of it. Scour the area clean of all rogues and filth. I want the battle alpha canister down there. End game plan is two rotter-thingamajigs, 2 war tralls, and 2 well pumped betas. One vlish most likely, and a spare slot for a situational creation, like an eyebeast or a cryodryak. I strongly suspect that my shaper will be along for the ride, and probably wont need to do much of anything other than observe and occasionally cast some kind of healing. I kinda wish that I had made a shock trooper. Would be nice to do something other than stand around, and pelting the enemy with thorns might be nice.

I have me a shiny new shaper robe... I was feeling bold, so I created the max number of creations that I could, a mix of clawbugs and cryoas. I prepped my self, and then broke into Rawal's bedroom. It was a frantic battle, but I managed to kill the wingbolts. One clawbug managed to live out of the whole horde. Heavy losses, but great rewards. Shaper robe, magic crystals, and a corruption baton, which I am sure will be most useful later. I merged the runed onyx with my fyoraskin cloak. The game doesn't feel like torment at all.

You can cure mental effects and cryoas don't need spell energy.

I feel kinda boneheaded. While I did experiment some with shaping during the beta testing process, I didn't devote to shaping. And I should have. G5 really is a return to shaping. It is powerful again. I fired up an actual Shaper. (Not a Lifecrafter, a Shaper) I dumped him in torment. I had some trouble at first because I didn't raise fire shaping. I placed most of my points in mech and leadership to start, some in int, and then I began building up battle shaping to level 10. I got all sneaky and slunk off to the testing halls, where I weaseled my way through, and got my clawbug reward. What does level 10 battle shaping get you? Level 20ish clawbugs, with 170 health that do absolutely absurd damage for so early in the game. Since I was in test mode, I created them with the AI turned off. I wanted to see how well they could do on their own to carry me through. Were they strong enough on their own to deal with enemies? Yes. Indeedy. They were frighteningly effective. I went back to the very first area, where you start, because it repopulates, and there are fyoras there that will drop a chain mail, an icy crystal, and a fyora skin cloak. (At least every time I've been there I found a cloak) I had four bugs swarming through the area. They obliterated all foes in path, with no guidance from me. No blessing, no daze, no protection, nada. The bugs swarmed through the area, killing some things by swarming them. It was freaky. It was like playing on easy, set to auto-pilot. I brought my bug army to the promenade and let them go. They swarmed over the worms, thahds, and fyoras, killed the shrouded rogues, and they did so with an ease I have never seen in ANY geneforge game on torment. Mind you, I am not controlling the clawbugs at all. Not only are the bugs tough, but they are tough enough to compensate for the idiot AI. When I cast blessing, my swarm did phenomenal damage. I don't know if I would go through the whole game with no control over my creations, but it is certainly possible to play through the whole beginning of the game with no direct control. Creations now are STRONG... I do mean STRONG. I don't know about fire or magic creations, as I haven't delved into those to much, but the battle creations, in this case, the clawbugs (and a thahd I experimented with) are brutally effective. I can not recall a geneforge game where shaping felt so strong. Torment didn't even feel like torment. It felt like easy. I have never cleared the first few areas so quickly. A dedicated shaper build is worth investigating. I can only imagine what a second tier rotter-thingamajig upgrade would be like when created with, say, a level 20 battle shaping. Not just one, but a few.

Yes, they do. I said they are cheap to upgrade. And it is for this very reason. Well, upgrading strength too. You can get a beta nice and early and upgrade it a good bit in your travels, if you play your cards right.

No, actually. With protection cast, and some kind of armor spell, like essence armor or something, cast from the chaotic aura spores, even a lowly cryoa manages to have somewhat useful armor effects, but only if you crank dex. This is only useful if you are sentimental about keeping low tier creations around as pets through the endgame. It certainly isn't a power gaming strategy.

I found dex much needed. Not only for hit, but to keep from being squashed. Otherwise, every attack connects. Dex slows down the incoming damage rate. It is enough to be noticeable, also, it allows the cryoa to start his or her turn sooner.

If you have a cryoa, and you want to keep it, do your self a favour. Max out str, dex, and end. It doesn't cost very much to do so, and the effect is dramatic. It allows the cryoa to survive the endgame quite easily, the only real trouble is mental status effects, which they are quite weak against. A single vlish is also a great upgrade bargain.

Lerman's Pass isn't all that difficult. I've done it before visiting the Stoneworks. Sure, it has a few rough moments, but if you are careful, and playing the right class, you'll be ok. I wouldn't want to do this with a sorceress or a shaper type. I will say that. To fragile. The Servile class should have a fairly good chance at doing it. A well buffed well stocked warrior (or maybe a shock trooper) type should be OK as well. You'd need to be a good driver of your toon though, and know how to hold your breath when you are in over your head. The key is ducking past as much of the combat as possible, avoiding worms, avoiding everything, and getting to the oozing sword. After that, hit and run tactics, as well as as much mental magic you can muster to sow chaos and confusion in the ranks. Terror is most useful. As for fighting the eye tyrant it self, I have no advice other than good luck. It can be done. Just don't be stupid and you'll be fine. (All though the argument could be made that taking on an eye tyrant so early on in the game is kinda dense)

Plated bugs and clawbugs are very different. Both are great when mixed together for a big buggy swarm.

Except that clawbugs pack vicious poison that continues to do damage over many rounds...

Clawbug / zergling style rush dominates the early game. Why even bother with cryoas?

Banish affliction. Regeneration aura running constantly helps with poison and acid.

Back on subject... Why play a melee servile? Why use missiles? Edit. Bugger, having trouble getting pictures to display. Quickpost this image to Myspace, Digg, Facebook, and others! Normal difficulty. (For kicks and giggles, and because I am testing something out right now) Dexterity is 10, with items, a shield and some sandals adding to my dex. Missile weapon skill is 5 at the moment, and no where near as high as it could be. Venom batons against an un-armored foe have a wide range of damage. At this point, even though I am relatively unskilled, I have a damage range of about 60 to 90. In the shot above, you can see what I did when I shot the poor mage fellow. You can also see what my clawbug, Mr. Pinchy, is doing. When I raise my missile skill a bit more, I'll be able to clear 100 damage a shot with a puny venom baton, before physical resists and or armor. The poison damage is long and lingering against many foes. In my inventory, I have an acid baton too. In time, I'll be able to clear about 150ish average damage with it. (With some shots clearing 200) Take note, I am not blessed in this shot. This is intentional. I wanted to show the damage output as it was. With blessing, the damage goes up considerably. Missile weapons are powerful, and are great even with out a ton of investment. It is a good way to conserve essence and spell energy to extend your jaunts out into the boonies. Any well balanced melee character, or even well balanced spell caster will benefit from having a back up plan involving missiles. As always submission batons and reaper batons rock the house.

G5 has come down to finding the right character to wear the clothes. End results are all to similar... The servile remains exceptionally strong, but the shock trooper might just be the strongest.

What he lacks in permanency he makes up for in durability. I like the sorceress... Don't get me wrong. I like her a lot actually. But she isn't the class I had hoped for her to be based on the missing slot in G4. If you play as a strong shaper sort, not enough essence to pound enemies with spells. If you play as a strong agent or spellcaster type, and rely on items to shape with, then you really are no different than an agent / infiltrator / servile type. It is in my opinion that the sorceress spreads her self to thin in achieving power. Every point she spends in shaping, she robs power from her magical abilities. If she shapes from items and boosts her magic to effective levels, her creations are little more than decoys, distractions, or a mop up crew. The shock trooper can get all of the best creations early enough, have more essence, get more energy, and can cast spells. If you want strong creations, as is your point Slarty, then you want a class with strong shaping ability, rather than the piddling average. A sorceress raising a shaping ability to 10 (and no waiting for items, remember, as you stated) would hamstring her self to the point of disability. Take away all the items and high powered goodies, and then we have a different argument. I'd probably say the sorceress is a good bit stronger than the servile, and possibly the perfect class. Items are the deal breaker, just as they were in G4. In G4, the servile was so freakishly overpowered that it was just obscene. I made the same argument in G4. The items break the game. Which is why the shock trooper has a new lease on life and is incredibly dangerous.

A Servile can shape just as well as the Sorceress can. Really. It is a matter of waiting for the right items. A Servile is a good bit more durable though.