Learned Noremac

So...has anyone ever actually used these things to good effect? It seems like a cool idea, but it doesn't seem like the amount of damage they do makes them even remotely worth it. The explosion doesn't become super-powered in later games, does it? I essentially stopped trying with them after G1. I was surprised to hear that people found the unstable creations to be useful, so I was wondering if anyone found some way to make use of the other creation I always thought was useless. Incidentally, I mourn the loss of the Thahd Shade...the unstable mechanic is cool, to be sure, but the ability to make a creation immune to poison and mental effects (because it was "undead") was pretty damn awesome.

Since you've beaten the first two already, I guess this doesn't spoil anything, but the funniest thing I always find about the first 2 games is that if you aim to kill each and every single living character in the game and do nothing else, you are not only praised by the Shaper Council for your loyalty but you get pretty damn close to the canon ending for both games. I know destroying or not destroying the Geneforge in #2 affects the ending fairly significantly, but in G1 you actually don't need to destroy the Geneforge for the loyalist ending, so long as no one capable of using it is alive by the end of the game. I've actually tried it--it's pretty much the exact same loyalist ending except the Geneforge's destruction isn't mentioned.

I always hung on to it because it seems to be the only such item in the ENTIRE GAME, but yeah it's useless.

Hit rate is the only really annoying part of this game. I didn't like that I had to wait several levels to fight some guys that were otherwise a fair challenge but were almost unhittable.

If you're crazy enough to try this, some things you need to know: First of all, make sure to use the strategy thread. It has lists of trainers, potion recipes, maps, a lot of stuff that will help fill in the blanks here. Potion Farming In battle, your only way of healing will be the use of potions. This means several things: -You can't afford to wait until Level 8 to sell things. You'll need to buy potions early on, and buy some Cave Lore from Vemeers as early as possible. The upshot of this is that you don't NEED 4 people to take Negotiator--I got through with 2 people and was able to train in everything I wanted and then some. -There are two early game sources of Healing Herbs you need access to. One is in the Gremlin Grove between Fort Avernum and Silvar, and cannot be accessed until you get Almarian Wine. You can find some Almarian Wine in the NE room of the Nephil Castle for the Stolen Necklace quest, on the ground floor. Get this as soon as you're strong enough. The other patch is northwest of Fort Duvno, surrounded by some water--you'll find it pretty easily. -By the mid-late game, you'll want access to all of the herb patches, and you will want to do a "farming run" every now and then. You can check a map to find them all, but basically do this: Warp to Cotra, walk to the Healing patch NE of Fort Duvno, then to the Gremlin Grove for more Healing Herbs. Walk south towards Mertis, then move through the network of tunnels to the east of it and you'll find Spiritual Herbs. Keep moving south until you hit the Tower of Magi, then move west along the road. One of the paths on the northern part of this road has Energetic Herbs -- get them. Then walk into Almaria and warp. If it's late game, go to Bargha. If it's mid game, go to Cotra. Second Part If midgame: Go to Cotra, get in a boat, go west a bit and then north as far as you can. On the land mass with the Hidden Aranea Lair and the chapel where you can learn Return Life, you can score some healing herbs at the very top of the land mass. Then, get back in your boat and go to Freehold of Kyass for the nearby Graymold patch(it's off on some islands). From there, walk west to the Mandrake Root patch, and then you're done. Leave your boat by Cotra to save time for the next run. If lategame: Go to Bargha, walk east and get the Mandrake Root patch, keep going east to Freehold, use the Orb of Thralni to jump to the Graymold patch, then use the orb again to jump east to the next landmass. Walk a bit east and then go north as far as you can for the Healing Herbs, and then you're done. -For healing out of battle, aside from walking outdoors, you have two options, and I suggest you exercise both. In Bargha, Ethridge can train you in First Aid. 2 points for each character, while costly, will give you a decent amount of health after each fight. Secondly, before you complete the Sss-Thss quest, you can receive free food in Fort Remote by talking to the cook there. You want to get an enormous store of kebabs and have each character hold them in their quick use slot. If you are playing on a computer, NEVER speak to Mick and simply type 1 repeatedly to skip through the conversation quickly. If playing on iPad, DO talk to Mick, then try to position the screen such that the cook herself is positioned exactly where the "2" conversation option appears, and just poke in the same spot until you get food, then hit the checkmark, and repeat. In either case, it doesn't take TOO long to get a few hundred kebabs once you get a decent rhythm going. Also, pick up all food you can find regardless--you probably want to sell meat and fish, but the valueless food and bandages are worth keeping. Make sure to get all your kebabs for the rest of the game BEFORE killing Sss-Thss. Stat Training -With 2 characters having Negotiator, I was able to afford all of the stats I'd ever need, and then some. That should be sufficient for you, too. -Prioritize defensive stats--you can't heal easily, so damage reduction is very important. Also, get each character to 15 in their base weapon stat so that they can use Adrenaline Rush as soon as possible. -Because you have no way of curing mental effects, each character should buy 2 levels of Arcane Lore. You can get them from Erika at 800 gold each. -Each character should buy 2 Levels of Resistance, Hardiness, and Parry. Melee characters should wait until they have got 10 Hardiness and 10 Parry before going to the trainer(this way the stat can be raised to 12). Archers can buy the stats whenever. -Most of your stats can be bought cheapest in Freehold after completing all the Freehold quests, but you may not be able to wait that long, nor will you you need to for some stats. If Hrarr trains the skill, hold off as long as possible on training it. Check the strategy thread for a list of trainers to get a sense of what's available where. Party Makeup Since you aren't using magic, these are all the options possible for party building. ALL characters should be as tanky as possible, either through evasion or endurance. You will most likely invest more in Endurance for melee fighters than you usually do. Dual Wielding Swordsman: Definitely viable. You'll likely have multiples--there are enough DECENT swords for 3, or even possibly 4 dual wielders. Keep in mind that Demonslayer's resistances make it a very viable endgame sword for this type of playthrough--survivability is key. Sword/Shield Wielder: More viable than on a normal playthrough. You can't heal, so the armor bonus could be nice to have. The only real issue is that swords tend to offer better bonuses than shields, though there are a few with good abilities. Pole Weapons User: Viable. The damage output is less than a dual wielder, but you can get "Smite" and combine it with a quicksilver item to get two attacks per turn. Other melee fighters CANNOT AFFORD TO USE QUICKSILVER ITEMS--the damage increase is not worth the amount of armor you lose. Since Smite has no negative effects, you only need a single one for the spear wielder, which is nice. Ninja/Mixed Melee and Missile Fighter: The versatility of this type of character would actually be very much welcomed--you can't always hit who you want with melee fighters. If you do it, make sure to max out Parry, Hardiness, AND Gymnastics, so that you become hard to hit AND tanky. You will, however, lose a bit in terms of Endurance and damage output, so Cold and Acid foes will be a problem. Might be worth a shot, hard to say. Archer(Bow User): Definitely viable. Invest heavily in DEX and decently in END, and max out Gymnastics. This will make your character almost impossible to hit in most encounters, and ensure that you can't be one-hit-KO'd so you can heal. I reccomend equipping just ONE quicksilver item--this means that if Gymastics kicks in AT ALL, you get 2 attacks. The Archery skill tree is very easy to fully max out, so I also reccomend investing 5 points in Luck to increase your defense, and archers are the best characters to invest in Tool Use for the same reason. Keep in mind that DEX does not help evade Cold or Acid attacks, so you need some endurance to survive those. You absolutely need at least one archer for Steelward foes, as well. (More on that later) Flinger(Thrown Weapon User): Not viable. Thrown weapons outdamage bows but there are a limited supply of them, so they should not be your primary form of attack. In addition, no thrown weapon offers any special bonus, while there are several bows that do. General Strategy -Save all of the following items: The Bow of Storms, The Flaming Sword, and any armor or weapon that provides a decent bonus to Mind Effect Resistance. The bow and the sword are crucial to fighting Steelward foes--such fights are rare, but you won't get through them without having one character use each weapon. For this reason, you ABSOLUTELY need an Archer. The Mind Effect items are for fights where mental effects are a big deal--change your equipment to increase Mental Resistance when fighting foes that use lots of mind affecting moves. -Save your Return Life Scrolls as much as possible. I was able to make it through the game without ever buying any, but keep in mind that the game does have a limited supply of them. -You will notice very quickly that your party stands a decent chance at winning a fight even when 1 or 2 characters die--this is because you essentially have 4 stand-alone characters, and not a synergystic "machine" that can't function without all of its parts. For this reason, it is acceptable to even NOT HEAL a character who is close to death if victory is in sight(since doing so will cost you a non-renewable resource). Just run back to town afterwards. -Save your Piercing Crystals. You can't open every barrier, but you can open up everything you NEED. If you end up using all of them, and there aren't any more to buy, you can buy out the Slith Merchants near the Waterfall Warren of everything they have, and they will restock. You can do this with any merchant, so if you really end up needing Return Life Scrolls you can do that too. -By praying at The Castle's altar, you get a Ward of Elements at Level 1. Where possible, get this before fighting anything major, though note that some areas will require you to enter a town and lose the ward. For those areas, you can gain the spellward through items. Steelward is available at a spring in the northern isles, but you only get a few uses of it, so really, you're just using items for that one. Ward of Thoughts can be found in the Honeycomb, but again, it has only a few uses. In any case, Thoughts is not an especially effective ward, so I suggest going for one that reduces damage instead, EVEN WHEN FIGHTING MIND-AFFECTERS. Your saved Mind-Res armor, as well as your points of Arcane Lore, will have a much more noticable impact. -FOCUS FIRE. This is a good idea anyway, but it is absolutely CRUCIAL to this playthrough. Your goal in any fight needs to be to reduce the number of guys damaging you as quickly as possible. For this reason, getting all 4 characters to have Adrenaline Rush should be done as soon as possible. Hope that helps, and I REALLY hope none of you are silly enough to actually try this out. It's a BIG headache, believe me. Also, while it MIGHT be doable on Torment, I really don't suggest trying it--if it is possible, you will probably have to spend way too much time grinding for potions. On Hard, the only time I needed to grind was for some of the game winning quests in order to replenish my supplies.

I should note that there's a bit of a difficulty spike near the mid game of this one...it levels off a bit as your characters reach their end game levels, then spikes up again for the game-winning quests.

I WON! I'll post pics if people want--there's nothing interesting but they do prove it. But yeah, I did it! At the first bottleneck, I just used a Speed Burst scroll and had everyone try to take out as many guys as they could, as quickly as possible. Once there was enough room, everyone drank their Battle Frenzy potions and we just barely outran the chasing mob. At the Garzahd fight, it was focus fire until he flees. At this point, the team was sort of split and had been swarmed by the mob, but I was able to get Charlotte(spear fighter) into the next hallway. I got her to just near the throne room while deliberately letting everyone die. Once they were all dead, I used a Return Life scroll to bring everyone back. (Last time, I'd made the mistake of reviving everyone IN the throne room--bad idea. You need a round for healing.) I managed to get everyone healed and into the throne room just ahead of the approaching mob. At that point, Invulnerability started coming out and I switched to an Elemental Ward. This, combined with some Armor potions and Battle Frenzy potions meant I was able to break the shield with ease. Once the shield popped, I had everyone switch to bows, and thankfully Hawthorne is weak enough that 2 shots from untrained archers are enough to kill him. So that's that. The game can be beaten on Hard Mode without ever casting a spell.

Geneforge 1 Spoilers ahoy: G1 has answers to most of this, I think. It mentions that making a new type of creation essentially involves taking an existing creation or animal and bombarding it with different types of shaping magic, to see what it does--even the ancestors of the Shapers used it offensively, to shape their enemies. The big breakthrough is that being able to see and eventually understand the DNA "scrolls" means the process won't be random. I seem to recall that the Geneforge is said to contain the genetic recipe for the "perfect being". Presumably this is based on humanity, but it's at least concievable here that the design for this superman could have been "from scratch". At the very least, it doesn't seem that Shapers could simply design their own creations from the ground up WITHOUT the Sucia Island knowledge. So some rebel creations might be entirely "new" in this sense; maybe not the conventional creations, but the alluded to viruses and diseases and so forth could be.

I have the latest iPad version...maybe he didn't update it there? Yeah, I kill very few people overall--except in that first corridor where they block you, the only other guys I'll kill are the ones directly blocking me. Otherwise I just Battle Frenzy to outrun them. Also, unless I'm mistaken, you can't cure fatigue in this game. Not like Avadon. So I use the Adrenaline Rush when I can to get some extra attacks(shame I can't use it to move...), but curing potions won't do much except get rid of the endless amount of ensaring and immobile that these dudes inflict(which is why I've brought a few for each character.)

Alright, so, I've attempted Hawthorne a few times, and been unsuccessful. It takes an eternity, but I've identified three main trouble spots: -About 2 seconds in, there is a forced bottleneck where you essentially have to kill almost everyone. Doable, but takes a long time without AoE attacks. -Garzahd battle. Annoying, but doable. The main problem is the sheer volume of cronies he has, so even when he's gone, it is very difficult to actually get out afterwards. The hallway afterwards is narrow so guys can pretty easily become trapped. -Hawthorne himself. I've gotten here on each attempt, but because of the Garzahd battle, I can never get everyone in here consistently. I'm not precisely sure which step triggers it, but the group tends to get cut off when about 8 or so guys instantly spawn in the end hallway and surround everyone. I try to get someone into Garzahd's room, wait for everyone to die, and then use a Return Life scroll, but you have to have a full round of no actions if you are revived, and it only revives at like 25% health. My feeling is that if I could get all 4 in here, it would be a breeze. I've got invulunerability and battle frenzy potions, and with only 2 guys was able to get the golems down to whichever phase comes after "terror", but then I got knocked back into a corner and couldn't hit the golems anymore. My strategy has basically been to use Battle Frenzy to push my way through groups whenever possible, and save Invulnerability for the Hawthorne fight. Without an AoE attack, I only kill guys when they are actually forming a "wall" preventing me from moving. I've considered using Battle Disciplines with knockback, but because of a slight bug enemies are essentially immune to ensarement and immobilization unless you inflict it for at least 2 turns. Any advice? I'm thinking I may try focusing on keeping the group tight in the final hallway to make sure that everyone is past the proper point before the 8 guys instantly spawn. But otherwise, anyone have any ideas?

Stop the Underworld, I Want to Get Off! http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ao036a&s=6 A fair warning, this was not as exciting as my Grah-Hoth battle. But anyway, I love all the build up to this area--it's as though they expect you to just happen to be wandering around in here and stumble upon the exit, so they throw a bunch of hints about corpses that were probably on the surface recently, etc. So, we're all set to fight some weird giants and stumble around in the dark. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=5ponbk&s=6 I actually didn't even realize the fight in the illusory surface room was avoidable. Normally, I'd fight it anyway, but this is a long enough dungeon as it is, so whatever. I hit the secret switch and move on, saying my password and so on. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ilzy3k&s=6 It's times like this I wish I did this party with 2 archers. For mindless giants, they've actually positioned themselves fairly strategically--without a ranged attack, your characters have to run all the way around to go up the stairs. Still, all these guys can dish out is physical damage, and the party is well equipped to deal with it. No big problems so far; not even using up too many potions. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=rgxoqc&s=6 Am I the only one who both loves and hates these "dark" dungeons? They add a nice bit of variety, but GAH I can never wait for them to be over. This is the real challenge--I'm not sure I can do this without being able to spray AoE attacks all over the place. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=a4mxxz&s=6 The first few waves of baddies are fine, and I don't even spend that long stumbling around looking for the wheels. However, things start to go south right about here. Mental effects, even with the Arcane Lore, are always a problem. This, combined with their high powered elemental attacks, makes Gazers and Eyebeasts my most hated enemy in this runthrough. I've hoarded all the decent armour that give bonuses to Mental Resistance, but I never know beforehand what I'm gonna face, so I never switch to it in time. Thankfully, it looks like Brauner might be too far away to hurt anyone. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=35mha9j&s=6 We manage to survive, but at the cost of one of our members. As I mentioned, the party is pretty functional even with a member down. But, I really don't want to fight the boss without a full party, and I REALLY don't want to walk all the way back to town. So, despite the fact that they're limited, I burn a Return Life Scroll. I've never even purchased any at any point, so I'll likely manage. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=54wx7q&s=6 He doesn't look like much, but that there is the boss. The toughest lich I've fought so far has been Drath, so let's see if this joker can top him. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ajnn7l&s=6 This is one of the reasons I love the dark dungeons. I'm focusing on the Lich, and every now and then one of these giants rushes out of the shadows and takes a swing. I'm never sure exactly how many opponents I'm facing, so it's nice and suspenseful. Eventually, the Lich inflicts Death Curse on someone, but unlike the Hakkai Lord, his take 13 or so turns to kick in. While I understand that this is because I've got no means of curing the effect, it ends up being purely psychological. There's no way the fight would last 13 turns after he does it anyway, win or lose. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=rm47b7&s=6 Ding dong, the lich is dead! Hooray! Mercifully, his defenders vanish after he dies, so I don't have to worry about fighting the Ironward ones. As I've said before, such enemies actually aren't that hard to kill, but my archer is nearly dead, and without her I'd have only one character that inflicts magical damage. We stumble through the darkness and find... http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=24x451v&s=6 The surface! Again, apologies for a rather bland runthrough. It was exhausting, but not especially difficult in comparison to Grah-Hoth. So, now that's done. After doing this, but before posting, I also killed the Queen Aranea(in the second lair) and Thantria, just for kicks. Neither fight was especially challenging or interesting, so I won't detail them here. With pretty much every useful stat now trained, Hawthorne is next on my list, and my last task for this playthrough. I'm not sure if I can manage this one without Blink and AoE attacks, but we'll see.

Grah-Hoth VS. The Magically Challenged Cavemen, First Attempt http://tinypic.com/v...pic=2e1gnkh&s=6 Well, we're all set to go grab that sparkling little ruby sitting in the middle of that magic circle that definitely isn't a trap. We certainly shouldn't prepare ourselves to fight the king of all demons before grabbing it. No sir. The party consists of, in order, Leo, Brauner, Charlotte, and Diana. Brauner's got Demonslayer. And why yes, he is black, I hadn't noticed. I certainly didn't put him in the party solely so I could deflect all accusations of racism with "Why, some of my best video game characters are black!" Ahem. http://tinypic.com/v...?pic=1ijw8w&s=6 My plan is to get Diana to hit that switch so she can hang around the in the hallway and run away once the fight is over, but there's so many damn skeletons that it's taking a few turns. Otherwise, though, a pretty promising start to the fight. I'm well stocked on Invulnerability Potions, so I have Charlotte take a swig. http://tinypic.com/v...pic=23m3dah&s=6 Brauner is sort of obscured by the pole, by the way. But this is looking...dare I say it? Rather easy. Somehow Grah-Hoth only notices about now, or maybe later, that I've got Demonslayer. Being stabbed with it numerous times, you think he'd have been able to tell much eariler. Also, the Gazers and their mental effects start to become pretty annoying. http://tinypic.com/v...pic=2q0ki6s&s=6 Oh man. I've totally got this. And on the first try too. Just to be sure, I have everyone drink invulnerability potions. Except Diana, since no one stands a decent chance at even hitting her. But I think my victory is assured, and I can safely relax and... http://tinypic.com/v...?pic=aoq6ma&s=6 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT KNOCKBACK! NOT NOW! I'M SO CLOSE! Well, hold on. Maybe I can get Brauner back over to Grah-Hoth before he's surrounded. If worst comes to worst, I might be able to have him switch swords with Leo mid fight. I can still win this. http://tinypic.com/v...pic=303ftye&s=6 ...or not. Leo is perpetually stunned, slowed, or dazed until he dies, Grah-Hoth finally took notice of the only character still hitting him, and Brauner's got a rather thick wall of baddies to wade through if he wants to help. Could this be the end of our fearless and magicless heroes? Brauner dies, predictably, but Grah-Hoth won't attack someone he's charmed, so all that happens to Diana are two rounds of menacing staring. Suprisingly, Diana manages to hold her own--Grah-Hoth can't consistently hit her and doesn't do lethal damage when he does. No pic, but for a while I'm sandwiched between two Imps that leaped into the corridor but can't hit me. I'm impressed that she finds room to dodge AoE fire attacks in such a small space, but I figure I'm pretty much dead--there's no room to place anyone if I use a Return Life Scroll and even if I can kill Hoth, I can't move so I can't run away. Then, one of the Imps inexplicably decides to leap away, so I rush into the open room and pull out a Return Life scroll, hoping to mount an unlikely comeback... http://tinypic.com/v...pic=2j2vk7k&s=6 Oh come on! I totally had room for more than just one! I'm almost certainly dead now, but I figure I'll try it to the last. Thankfully, Grah-Hoth shows that he has a much better attention span than I do by NOT getting bored and wandering off once losing sight of me. So Charlotte starts stabbing some Imps while I try to move Diana into the treasure room to revive the rest of them. http://tinypic.com/v...pic=344edn8&s=6 Wait...is this really happening? The imps are dead, Grah-Hoth has no buddies, he's resorting to summoning demons just to keep me away from his throat...in retrospect, I probably should have tried to get him to follow me in here from the start.... http://tinypic.com/v...?pic=ivv6gg&s=6 YES! And escape is all but assured! The men die while the women escape because I'm too cheap to use any potions now that I've already won, but I'll take it. Grah-Hoth can be beaten on Hard Mode without ever casting a spell! I was almost certain I was going to lose that one, but there you have it. There's a few minor things to pick up before I can go for it, but I'll do a similarly detailed account of the Final Gauntlet, and ultimately of the killing of Hawthorne. Two random thoughts: -I found a free Steelward spring in the Northern Isles, but after you drink it 4-5 times, it stops working. Sort of weird, given that Ward of Elements is better and you can get it forever in the Castle's altar...in any case, in the absence of spells, you gotta save your ward items. -I have never run a pure archer before this file, and have a question for those that have. Do you generally find you do more damage with the First Expedition Bow or with the Possessed Bow(less damage, but 50% chance of critical hit) I have a Lethal Blow skill of 12...thoughts?

Would it be perhaps better to post links to the pictures instead of directly using the IMG tags? I'm worried about overloading the page in terms of space and bandwith.

No, no Parry. I'll try it again when I have time later tonight. But I mean that you can quite honestly one shot her, immediately, with your starting skill points--I guess maybe just invest mostly in strength and melee weapons. Since you're starting with the first attack, you don't need to survive anything she does. It sort of makes sense, if you think about it. She only "needs" to be strong enough to not be killed by the tutorial's Fyoras. If they make her too strong, you won't get to do any fighting yourself during that last little encounter. Nothing in that first area has a damage output comparable to Guardian melee swings, even at the first level.

So, not sure if this has been noticed before. But in Geneforge 2, at the very start of the game, if you're playing as a Guardian, you can kill Shanti the second you see her. I forget the details...it's been a while since I played, but basically she's not strong enough to survive a Guardian's melee attack, at least assuming you put skill points in the right places. There's no reprocussions, too. Shantis in later areas are their own characters, and the game assumes you never try to kill her. So she will continue to show up where she's supposed to.

Progress Update: I was going to go right for Grah-Hoth, but then I remembered that Pyrog made some disparaging comments about my awesomeness. So I had to go deal with that. I was able to take Pyrog down fairly quickly, and the remaining Giants weren't a big deal. I then went through Skaggarath, and DAMN that is hard to pull off. Thankfully, I've been slowly making a decent stock of Invulnerability Potions, so it was manageable. Once I remembered that the main sentinel teleports to his throne for healing, I just focused on attacking everyone ELSE, then moving to the throne room, and only THEN attacking him. A long exhausting battle, but it worked. But... I ran out of Piercing Crystals! Gah!! So I'm gonna take a look at the strategy section, see if there's any piercing crystals I can still get. If not, I'm buying out the Slith merchants. Also, thanks to Painted Lady for the heads-up on screenshots. It worked fine, I took a few. My question now, I guess, is how I post images on this forum?

Progress Update: A small update this time. I have killed Sss-Thss. To be frank, it was actually kind of easy. Most of the soldiers inflict physical damage, and this party is well equipped to deal with that particular kind of damage. It is basically a party of four tanks, after all. This, combined with Adrenaline Rush, means that even his "berserker swing" that he starts doing at low health wasn't really a problem. I'm not sure I even had to use any healing items. I cut through everyone in that throne room like a hot knife through butter...and now I'm hungry. Mmm...butter. Not on its own, mind you. I'm not an animal. Ahem. Also, I have faced my first Ironward foes. The entrance to Khoth's Lair is guarded by a Runewarded Golem, 2 Ironwarded Golems, and 1 plain-old normal Golem(I guess Khoth had budget issues and had to cut corners on his 4th golem). The fire sword and lightning bow, combined with the fact that the golems aren't actually IMMUNE to physical damage, meant that the fight didn't really take long at all, considering. Grah-Hoth is next. I'm REALLY worried about this one...he's a toughy, and those summons don't help the situation. My current plan is to have my archer hit the secret switch right off the bat and then stand in the doorway while everyone else Adrenaline Rushes the bajeesus out of Grah-Hoth before the summons overwhelm them. At that point, my archer will valiantly abandon her friends and run out the door, with her proverbial tail between her legs. Plan B involves copius amounts of Invulnerability potions. I'll let you know how it goes.

There's no telling yet if it will be successful, but if my no-spell runthrough on hard mode ends up being possible, you can probably beat the game with just about anything.

End Game Party Stats I know that some of these are probably not ideal. I'm not perfect at this game. But it should give you a general sense of what to aim for--the team has worked so far, if nothing else. Leo the Brawler Level: 31 STR: 25 (+5) DEX: 10 INT: 9 END: 27 (+7) Health: 377 Combat Stats: Melee Weapons: 15 Hardiness: 12 Blademaster: 10 (+8) Parry: 12 Quick Action: 7 Dual Wielding: 6 (+1) Lethal Blow: 7 Magic/Misc Stats: Arcane Lore: 2 Resistance: 2 Cave Lore: 4 First Aid: 3 Traits: Improved Strength x 5 Improved Endurance x 5 Sure Hand x 1 Ambidextrous x 1 Good Health x 1 Robust Health x 1 Drath's Knowledge x 1 Brauner the Swordsman Level: 31 STR: 25 (+9) DEX: 10 INT: 9 END: 27 (+5) Health: 352 Combat Skills: Melee Weapons: 15 Hardiness: 12 Blademaster: 10 Parry: 12 Quick Action: 7 (+1) Dual Wielding: 5 Lethal Blow: 7 (+1) Magic/Misc Stats: Arcane Lore: 2 Tool Use: 3 Cave Lore: 2 First Aid: 2 Traits: Improved Strength x 5 Improved Endurance x 5 Sure Hand x 1 Parry Mastery x 2 Ambidextrous x 1 Good Health x 1 Negotiator x 1 Drath's Knowledge x 1 Charlotte the Amazon Level: 31 STR: 26 (+3) DEX: 10 INT: 9 END: 26 (+5) Health: 330 Combat Skills: Pole Weapons: 15 Hardiness: 12 Blademaster: 8 Parry: 12 Quick Action: 9 Lethal Blow: 9 Magic/Misc Skills: Arcane Lore: 2 First Aid: 2 (+1) Tool Use: 2 Cave Lore: 2 Traits: Improved Strength x 4 Improved Endurance x 5 Sure Hand x 1 Parry Mastery x 2 Backstab x 3 Negotiator x 1 Diana the Huntress Level: 32 STR: 10(-2) DEX: 33(+7) INT: 10 END: 19(+8) Health: 315 Combat Skills: Bows: 15(+3) Hardiness: 2 Sharpshooter: 10 Gymnastics: 12(+3) Quick Action: 0(+5) Lethal Blow: 10(+3) Sniper: 7 (+2) Magic/Misc Skills: Arcane Lore: 2 Resistance: 2 First Aid: 2 Cave Lore: 3 Tool Use: 5 Luck: 5(+2) Traits: Improved Dexterity x 5 Improved Endurance x 5 Deadeye x 1 Sure Aim x 3 Good Fortune x 1 Great Fortune x 1 Leo and Brauner are essentially the same guy, with the slight exception of their equipment. Both are tanks, but Leo, as the first member of the party, is slightly more defensive, while Brauner is slightly more offensive. Brauner is my Demonslayer guy, though right now I've got it in the quick use slot and have him use other swords. I am debating having Brauner wield Demonslayer all the time for the armor and resistance bonuses(more important that usual since there's no priest), but so far this set up has been working. When I face Grah-Hoth, I will probably give Brauner the +8 Blademaster sword to maximize my damage output. Charlotte, now that she has Smite and Quicksilver Sandals, has a damage output that roughly equals my dual-wielders. I didn't want Backstab on everyone, as it is actually sort of hard to set up in certain situations. But it is useful enough on Charlotte. Diana uses the Quicksilver Chainmail but no other Quicksilver items--the idea is that if Gymnastics kicks in AT ALL, I get 2 shots, and on the rare occasions that it doesn't, Sniper provides the second shot. Diana's Luck is a what I like to call "Archer's Hardiness"--it's not as big a bonus, but since she almost never gets hit, she doesn't need as much of one.

If you are using a pure archer, you can afford to spend far more on Dexterity compared to Endurance than a melee fighter would, simply because Dexterity doubles as a defensive skill--it makes you harder to hit. You aren't getting hit as often, so you only need enough Endurance to avoid getting one hit KOed when you ARE hit. This is important since you will have a lower damage output than fighters in the first place, so extra Dexterity means extra damage.

For those of you who are farming for potions, I thought it would be helpful to have a list of who makes which potions, and what herbs they want. Note that some people have different recipes for the same potion. Walner (of Fort Duvno) Healing Potion: Healing Herbs x 2 Curing Potion: Healing Herbs x 1 Speed Potion: Healing Herbs x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1 Energy Potion: Healing Herbs x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1 Comments: Healing potions remain worth having for quite some time, particularly if you have characters not really investing in Endurance--for them, there's not a huge difference between a potion and an elixir. This, combined with the fact that you'll almost always have more Healing Herbs than other herbs, means you'll make trips to this guy even in the late game, if you are farming for potions. Worth noting also that the only difference between his Speed Potions and Witch's Speed Elixirs is duration. There's never any real reason to have Curing Elixirs over Curing Potions, so if you want curing items, go to Walner. Remember that mental effects can only be cured by "Unshackle Mind", and cannot be removed by items. Zanthia (of the Tower of Magi) Healing Elixir: Healing Herbs x 1, Graymold x 1 Curing Elixir: Healing Herbs x 1, Graymold x 1 Energy Elixir: Healing Herbs x 1, Graymold x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1 Armor Elixir: Graymold x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1 Comments: Zanthia can't make anything without Graymold, so this is the place you'll be using most of your graymold, once you have access to the patch. Curing Elixirs are not worth making, so go to Walner if you want curing. Do NOT make Armor Elixirs here once you have access to Patrick's Tower--his recipe is the exact same except that you don't need Graymold. Kai (of Patrick's Tower) Healing Elixir: Healing Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1 Curing Elixir: Healing Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1 Armor Elixir: Energetic Herbs x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1 Energy Elixir: Graymold x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1 Invulnerability Potion("Powerful Protective Potion"): Energetic Herbs x 1, Mandrake Root x 1 Graymold Salve: Graymold x 1 (Graymold Salve only available after completing Graymold Salve Recipe quest) Comments: You need Energetic Herbs for everything Kai makes except for Graymold Salve. This is the only place you should be making Invulnerability Potions and Armor Elixirs, as he uses less herbs for these brews than other alchemists. Invulnerability is shockingly cheap, and can be made in pretty decent quantities. Definitely worth it. Graymold Salve is necessary for curing Patrick's wife, but it's actually worth making anyway, particularly since it only requires a single herb. It's essentially a weaker Group Heal scroll with curing mixed in. It's a shame that by the time you'll have easy access to the Graymold patch, poison isn't a problem anymore, as this item could have been really useful in the early game. As it is, it's not as useful as a Rod of Succor or Group Heal scroll, but easier to get. It is definitely better than a Recovery Scroll, though. Witch (of Dharmon) Speed Elixir: Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1, Mandrake Root x 1 Energy Elixir("Power"): Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1, Mandrake Root x 1 Invulnerability Potion("Protection"): Healing Herbs x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1, Mandrake Root x 1 Wisdom Crystal: Healing Herbs x 1, Spiritual Herbs x 1, Energetic Herbs x 1, Graymold x 1, Mandrake Root x 1 Comments: You need Mandrake Root for everything Witch makes. Do NOT make the Invulnerability Potion with her--make it with Kai instead, as otherwise you are just throwing herbs away. The Speed Elixir can be worth it, though note that Walner's Speed Potions just have a shorter duration, and the Energy Elixir is alright if you've run out of Graymold. The big deal about the Witch is that she can make Wisdom Crystals. If you've got the patience for it, this allows you unlimited level ups. Not bad at all, but pretty tedious, since levels essentially stop mattering after level 30 (except for each 5th level).

Well, I beat The Chasm Drake and then afterwards the Giant Chief. Each boss was not an immense challenge, simply because it is very easy to lure all the cronies out of the room before the boss notices you for each guy--their lairs have multiple entrances. I had to let a guy die in each fight--when I saw I was winning, I felt it wasn't worth the potions to keep the guy alive--but they were bothpretty doable. I just focused on killing them as fast as possible, before I took too much damage from the fire spurters/the stomps. Next on my list is either Ss-Thss or Pyrog. I'm leaning towards the Slith king, as this will give me access to a cheaper trainer for Resistance, which will undoubtedly be helpful for the Pyrog fight. Everyone has reached level 30...I can't take screenshots on the iPad, but I will at a later time copy out their stats, since they won't be changing much from now on. Also, I haven't noticed, but has anyone done a thread listing the various recipes for potions? If not, I'm willing to do it. Different alchemists make different things, and even when they make the same things, want different herbs. Incidentally, never have the Dharmon witch make invincibility potions for you--the guy in Patrick's Tower does it for half the herbs.

Yeah, the Giants worry me. I have gotten my feet wet, so to speak, by fighting some giants in outdoor combat. But when they are in high numbers, they're a real problem. This is one of the issues with not having an AoE spell--I can't deal easily with very large groups. For example, I haven't been able to deal with the Giant encounter right outside Bargha yet. (At least, not without burning through an unreasonable number of resources) The castle might be a bit more manageable, as I can use hit and run tactics to chip away at their numbers and try luring them into smaller spaces. But before this, I'm going to attempt some other stuff. I never did kill that Slith fort north of Fort Emerald...you have to break a barrier to get inside, so I wasn't going to bother with it. But I need money and it is the goal of two quests, so I figure it's probably worthwhile. I'm also thinking I may go after the Chasm Drake...it has Smite, which will help nicely with my spear fighter.

The Hakkai Lord is dead. It became clear after the first few tries, however, that this fight is not doable without any defense against mental effects. I can't cure them, of course, but I can increase my resistance. So I went and quickly grabbed the Orb of Thralni (if you know where you're going, you can get it without even fighting anything), did the Old Crone quest to ease up the way into Erika's Tower, then used the Orb to fly over to her tower. After all this, for the grand cost of 6400 gold, each character got 2 Arcane Lore. This meant I could almost always resist being charmed, and at least some of the characters would resist Terror. A tough fight, but doable. It did cost me 2 Return Life scrolls, but eh. Oh, and you pretty much need to be Enlightened like, all the time. The added 20% Mental Resistance is REALLY important.

Does he patch the iPad version? I've always seen Demonslayer doing noticeably more damage to demons anyway, but hey, if I can get more damage in there, I'll take it.