Shogo

Killing Chabon before Redbeard can get to him? Nope. I've never done that. I don't think I've ever actually tried either. I could probably give it a go, but I'd have to start a new game and work my way back to that fight. I'm not sure I want to do another run just to see if I can pull it off.

It well and truly isn't easy. Even with rigorous preparation and using stuns. (Mostly because of that damn Fear effect.) Also, I wouldn't necessarily say you aren't supposed to be able to defeat him. You do get a dialogue box if you manage to kill him. (Thankfully, his death unsummons those Infernals.) The dialogue box is basically . . . "He dies a few feet away from the portal. Maybe if he'd feld right away, rather than being so cocky as to have a chat with you, he wouldn't be dead." (Rough summary by memory.) Then you report that you killed him, the dude is all, "Good. We won't have to track him down.", and you get about the same reward you'd have gotten if you just let him go. (I think the only difference is 100 additional gold, other than what you loot off of Gryfyn.) Despite this, if you ever talk to the guy that asked you to find Gryfyn again . . . He will always act as though Gryfyn got away. (So yeah. It's not that you aren't supposed to. It's just that, even if you do, the game/plot doesn't care.)

That terror effect is a major pain in the ass. I save scummed until all of my party managed to avoid it on the first turn of combat. (It was always the Tinkermage who got hit by terror. Always.) I remember a Tinkermage attack that stops Gryfyn from moving for a few turns as well. (I think 2?) Also, because accepting that offer of tea teleports you between Gryfyn and his portal . . . Right before triggering that pre-battle conversation, I buff the crap out of my party. I usually get 1 or 2 turns of being buffed before it wears off if I rush in to trigger that chat quickly enough. Anyways . . . You have to block his attacks and wail on him with stunning attacks to keep him still long enough to simply wail on him. All in all, the encounter relies very heavily on luck. Being half to a quarter dead is pretty common before he gets away. Hell, I had him slip away when I only needed one more hit in to drop him. It's nice to be able to say I dropped him, but in the end I really don't think he's worth the trouble.

I'll go ahead and add this here. Gryfyn drops a Necklace of Vitality and a Trueshield Wrap if you manage to kill him. The reward from Jaime is almost exactly the same even if you pull this off. The only difference is you get 900 coins instead of 800.

It is possible to kill him before he flees. I just did it myself. He drops a Necklace of Vitality and a Trueshield Wrap, and you even get a little message where it says he was just too damn overconfident. The reward you get from Envoy Jamie is almost exactly the same. You still get a Scroll of Resurrection and a Bracelet of Opportunity. However, it seems you get 900 coins instead of the 800 you get if Duke Gryfyn escaped. That said . . . Even if you killed Gryfyn, and even if Jamie expresses joy that he is dead, future conversations with Jamie still assume that he got away and the Grey Raptors are still looking for him. So there. It's possible to kill Duke Gryfyn, but it's also pretty obvious that he's supposed to get away.

Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up. Geneforge remakes? That's AWESOME. Geneforge is how I discovered Spiderweb Software. Specifically, there was this PC Gaming magazine I picked up when I was about 12. Geneforge was one of the things on the demo disc. (I think it also had a System Shock 2 demo. Can't remember what other stuff was on it) I've always loved the Geneforge series the most. While I've played the Avernum games, but not the original Exile games, I've never really been taken with them in the same way that I was with Geneforge. Though I still gave EftP a go . . . And I'd enjoy it if some of the extra content for Avernum 2's remake involved siding with the Empire. (I'd do it mostly for the lulz, but also to kick the [censored] out of the vahnatai.)

Huh. I've never not done their quests, so I'd always assumed "Let's kill Redbeard." would be their default position loyalty quests or not.

I actually think Khalida is pretty justified in wanting Xenophon dead. She refused to accept his bribes, and so he had her falsely imprisoned with the end result being that she's essentially crippled for life. It doesn't necessarily make her right to do so, but I certainly don't think it makes her depraved or evil. -------------- Honestly . . . The only companion I'd fault would probably be Dedrik. It sucks that you got banished from your homeland for essentially doing the right thing, but being homesick isn't justification for slaughtering those Kva mercenaries. With Yoshiria . . . Well . . . She hates Avadon. The only reason she's a Hand is because it offers her some protection from the Grey Raptors. Burning those documents means she doesn't have to constantly worry about Raptor assassins jumping her. Yannick . . . He just got mind raped by a petty, lingering Tawon spirit. Hardly his fault. A shame too. He actually prefers the path of least bloodshed . . . But the encounter with that spirit apparently took away that desire. Alcander . . . He wants to send piles of treasure to his family. I hardly think Avadon is entitled to it. Admittedly, getting that treasure involves looting a rival family's vault, but that's hardly pure evil. ---------------------- I will agree with the sentiment that I wish at least some of the companions were committed Avadon Loyalists. In both the first and the second games, doing the companion quests was the only way to get them to agree to stay loyal to Redbeard. I would have liked to have had the reverse show up at least once, with you needing to gain their absolute loyalty in order to convince them that fighting Redbeard is a good idea. I will say this much though . . . At least Avadon 1 had the excuse that Miranda was trying to manipulate you into turning on Redbeard from the very beginning, right down to deciding which Hands you would be working with.

At least one obstacle comes in the form of Redbeard. Now, admittedly, he was talking about one of Khemeria's warlords . . . But in the first game he presents you with a scenario in which one said warlord has expressed an interest in joining the Pact, promising to adhere to all of its laws and do all the other stuff that would be required to be part of the Pact. He'll ask you what you think should be done in such a scenario, and the only answer that he will consider to be the correct one is refusing the offer. As far as he's concerned, you shouldn't even stop to consider the idea. You can then ask him if Farlanders trying to join the Pact is common, and he'll say that such offers are made quite frequently. It's part of a balancing act. He's deliberately trying to keep the Farlands just strong enough to make the Pact nations focus on their external foes rather than their internal divisions, while trying to keep them from being strong enough to genuinely threaten the Pact. --------------------------- Another example would probably be the stubborn to the point of incompetent Pact nations themselves. There'd likely be a lot of resistance not related to Avadon to the idea. And the Pact can't be anything other than incompetent given their inability to deal with such things as the Contested Lands and Beraza Woods after centuries of pointless bickering.

I've been operating under the same assumption. The Avadon 1 PC might still be out there somewhere, as I'd assume he or she is the one other person to be straight up asked if they want to remain a Hand or immediately switch to being an Eye or Heart . . . But for all I know, the 1st PC could have said, "I'm taking your job, old man!" The lack of a mention makes sense if they decided to bury the 1st party as just another set of failed assassins. Being superstar loyalists surely would have gotten SOME mention.

I both like and hate the Pact. Being more specific, I like the idea of the Pact but I hate the implementation. The same holds true for Avadon. As such, my motivation in runs where I'm going to take down Redbeard are to try to get some reforms going without destroying either institution. That said, I'm sympathetic with at least some of the Farlanders. (Mostly the Tawon Empire.) I think it's incredibly messed up that Farlanders seem to be barred from defending themselves against any threat that comes from the Pact, even roving bands of murderous Pact Bandits. Where instead they have to beg and plead for the Pact to come in and deal with said bandits and the like. I'd like to see Khemeria unified instead of stuck with a bunch of petty warlords. From what's been described of them . . . No real sympathy for Svorgald. Mostly because their gripe seems to be "It's so unfair that the Pact won't let us raid, kill, and plunder as we please! Where's their sense of cultural tolerance?" Still undecided on Titans/Ogres/Wretches. Oh, and I can't stand the Wyldrylm Rebels.

Really? I wasn't able to kill them even when their health bars were empty. (Or appeared empty.) What happened when I busted them up was I got a message that said even when chopped up to the point that they shouldn't be able to move anymore, they just kept on moving. (And regenerating.) Then they basically regenerate some of their health every turn, but otherwise don't do anything. (If you keep their health down, they'll keep wasting turns regenerating.) When I get to that fight in my second run, I'll see if I can't put them down permanently.

Talk to the wandering Kva soldier/deserter. He'll put you on the right track.

For me, the relevant records were (I think) in the northeast section of the first level of the dungeon. (Same level with Eye Mamora and the like.) Books on stone podiums. Not the papers on wood podiums. This should be obvious, but just in case, you should have Khalida with you while checking the records. (Just to be safe.)

On the subject of the first game being slanted towards fighting Redbeard . . . I think what was ultimately supposed to convince you otherwise was Miranda openly admitting that every assignment she gave you was chosen specifically because she thought they'd turn you against Avadon. Though I ultimately justified staying loyal to Redbeard by concluding that replacing him as Keeper, and having to be brought up to speed on all the things a Keeper needs to know, were the last things Avadon and The Pact needed when things were about to go down. Of course, by the time I finished my loyalist run of Avadon 2, I started feeling more and more like a villain by doing so. Which is part of the reason as to why I think I'll enjoy undermining Avadon in my second run.