Quiconque

It's pointless to compare the power levels of most of those mages, because they specialized in different areas of magic . Aimee and Patrick were better scriers, Solberg was a master minddueler. That goes for other mages, too -- Mahdavi knew more about teleportation. That said, Erika was obviously stronger than the others, and Rentar-Ihrno and Garzahd seem to be closer to her level. Erika and Rentar were both capable of transforming entire species of plants and animals in ways that would endure naturally. NO ONE else in game canon has ever done that (except for X doing comparatively simple work with it), so I'd put them above Garzahd. The description of the duel between Erika and Rentar-Ihrno clearly implies that Erika's command of magic was slightly superior to Rentar's. Because of X's work with transformation, his second-to-few capacity for teaching magic, and his apparent lack of susceptibility to aging (shared with Erika but not Solberg, Rone, or Patrick) I'd put him a step above the others. Somewhere in there should also go the dragons. Garzahd was apparently able to outmagick Sulfras; otherwise they seem to have similar capabilities to the best human mages (Athron scries like Aimee or Erika) but more of them. So I'd say 1. Erika 2. Rentar-Ihrno 3. Garzahd 4. X, Dragons (most; not Pyrog, certainly), probably a number of Vahnatai 5. Other big name magi -- Solberg, Patrick, Rone, Aimee, Linda, Mahdavi, Enla, Elderan, and so on. Perhaps the strongest, most venerable liches and vampires -- Vahkohs. 6. Powerful one trick ponies -- Pathass, Mairwen, Silvario, Seles, Thompson, and the like. General mages of strong, but not top-level power -- Kelner. As for ages: The Five were exiled in 776. Patrick didn't extend his life magically, and he survived until at least 823 (maybe a bit more, I don't have the dumps here) even in Exile where life expectancy was clearly shorter. However, he and the others were established mages when they were exiled. I'm going to guess Patrick was about 30-35. I'll also guess that all of the Five were of similar ages, give or take a decade. Given Erika's temperament, I can't see her considering herself a "colleague" of a mage who is both weaker and significantly younger than her. (OTOH, perhaps she was a little gentler *before* she was exiled and cursed and had to fight hordes of demons.) Garzahd is supposed to be of a similar age. X joined the triad a long time after its founding, and at least a few years before 817 (=E/A1). 800 seems reasonable, but even if it was as late as 810, that leaves precious little time for him to have been born in Exile and grow up and study magic. Plus, even in 817 and 823 there were very few children in Exile, and fewer adults who had grown up there. Mahdavi was described as young, I think, though that could be magi-makeup. She doesn't strike me as the makeup type, though. Kelner was young in 817, an apprentice. Silverio was an apprentice in 779, and still spry 45 years later. Apprentices must be young... Altogether I'd say some ages look something like this, circa E/A 1/2, and then circa A4. The Five, Garzahd - 70-75, 105-110 or dead Micah - 70, dead Silverio - 65, dead X, Linda - 50, 85 or dead Mahdavi, Enla, Mairwen - 30, 65 or dead Kelner - 20, 55 Prazac - 5, 40

That reminds me. Was anyone else weirded out when they met the mage named Erika in G3 (in Greiner's Camp)?

The thing you have to remember about the skills is that each one is only good for certain things. That may sound obvious, but that's the thing people seem to not realize. Strength is really only useful if you're using melee attacks, for example. (You need a lot of it to wear enough armor to make a difference, and every character will want more encumbrance at a lot of points in the game.) Similarly, if you aren't using missiles, you can ignore Dexterity completely. There is one big exception, and that is Luck. Luck is one of the most potent and versatile skills. It starts out really cheap, and increasing luck adds to your chance to hit with ANY kind of attack, as well as your chance to dodge any attack. (Buying 3 points of Luck for 4 gives you +6% to hit, compared to 1 point of Strength for 4 giving you +5%. Luck doesn't boost damage, but on higher difficulty you'll want the boost to hit!) It also makes enemies drop more items, which is occasionally useful -- and the cash boost that provides, which can be substantial, is great for missile users. Also, certain skills will get more useful with every point -- Strength and Spellcraft, for example, which boost damage output -- while others have a threshhold of usefulness. Quick Action and Shaping skills become twice as expensive for the same effect once you hit 10, while it's not very helpful to pump Blessing Magic above the minimum for spell requirements.

Close. Actually, Ornks are all descended from the Ornkithopter, who was created out of nothing by the Nine-Headed Cave Cow.

You wouldn't have to be an idiot to make that mistake. The items are only a small shade different in appearance and the names are very similar as well.

Bump, because this has links to stuff people have been referring to.

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: By popular request, I have put Khyryk into the game. Also, items in your pack no longer contribute to weight. Items you wear do. I just saw this thread, and I am once again excited about G4. Hallelujah for good design decisions! This game is going to be great, and I look forward to having many inane, nitpicky conversations about character builds on this board.

ALWAYS EDIT ON A BACKUP COPY. *facepalm*

In the long run, it's a disadvantage to have high Leadership. There are a ton of items that provide leadership boosts (Infiltrator vest, cloak, charm, and ring, and shining shield, for a total of +6). There's also the Charisma spell, which with spell skill boosting items even a Guardian can access without much trouble. There are almost no spots in the game where having more than 8 leadership is helpful. Beyond 10 leadership, you don't get anything terribly useful -- you can just skip quests, and really, who wants to skip quests? There are about 3 places where 13 leadership makes a difference and there is exactly one where 15 leadership makes a difference -- with Litalia. So boosting leadership much beyond 6 or 8, while it may be useful in the short term, is pretty much throwing away skill points in the long term. The experience you get for it early on is pretty much meaningless in the long run.

The problem with Parry is that it will rarely let you block missile (= magical) attacks -- it only gives a 1% block rate against them. That was the bigger change from G2, in which high Parry would block all of almost anything. It is still worth investing in for the damage reduction, but it's no longer the most critical skill.

Actually, no, Felix's IP address(es) will be banned so he can't log in at all from wherever he is. So it would be a good idea to stop spamming, sir felix!

The Fort Kentia worms were a huge hassle for me as a missile agent. I cast Daze countless times, and still had to do a few reloads. On Torment, of course. They had been much easier as a regular, spellslinging agent, because Daze lasted longer and one hit from a spell would take out any worm. I suppose I could have been less stingy with my Icy Crystals, but neh...

Dexterity?

The real problem is that stockpiling enough missiles to compete with unlimited Agent magic + essence pods is doable, but it requires carrying a lot of weight. See my rants about encumbrance in every other thread

Except that there area a kazillion essence pods lying around. ...actually, I don't remember if that was as true in G1. Was it? In G3, I've stopped myself from making any attempt at conserving them, because there are so frigging many.

At first this indeed seems like a good strategy -- but it has a flaw. As a Shaper, it is to your advantage to create creatures at the earliest level you can. This is because of the experience your creations will gain. When you are at a lower level, your experience gained scales more advantageously, of course, and therefore your creations gain more levels. A single chance for seven creations to get an extra level up permanently is better than a single level gain for a PC, since by the end of the game that will have eroded into a small fraction of a level's worth of XP. The exception of course is if the skill points a level up will net you will give you points in a Shaping skill up to 10. However, even when your Shaping skills are not optimized yet, it is still to your advantage to keep lots of creations around. Reducing the experience you gain slightly means that better creations become available when you are at a lower level, and therefore they will be more powerful for the entire game.

One of the main problems with killing NPCs -- like Aiglos -- is that if they are tied to a quest reward, you have to talk to them to clear the quest from your quest list and get the experience (and items, if applicable) as a reward. Jeff's way of having NPCs be attackable is yet another holdover from the Ultima games, in which you could typically kill Lord Brittish without any consequences to the game world whatsoever.

The text suggests the body does not much postdate the evacuation, and these kinds of picayune continuity snafus are not uncommon in Jeff's games. I agree with Dikiyoba. Better to stretch science in a game that already does so heavily than to stretch the writing and the designer's intentions.

I'd argue magic strengthening canisters make a MUCH bigger difference for Guardians, who are hard pressed to put very many points in magic skills. An Agent with Battle Magic and Spellcraft skills of 15 each is barely going to notice an extra point in Ice Spray or Kill, and extra points to Blessing spells are practically useless. Shapers, of course, get their creations at higher levels permanently if they use canisters, a much more significant gain. ...Now, if we are talking about isolated unskilled shapers trapped on Sucia Island, it's a different story, but there has only been one (Goetz wasn't an apprentice, was he?), so that's hardly relevant.

Again, we haven't met that many Agents at all -- something like four or five, total? -- and we've met relatively few Shapers and Guardians gorged on canisters, certainly less than 1 in 4, so it could just be random chance. Agents, presumably, desire a significant amount of self-control, given their solitary tactics and lifestyle. Canisters risk having that taken away, without providing any significant benefits to an Agent.

Tactically, it's a perfectly fine idea. Typical Agent tactics rely on making your one character unassailable through a combination of hit-and-run tactics, brute speed, and buffing spells. Shapers, meanwhile, can make creations that are significantly more powerful than Alwan and Greta, for minimal essence, and can do so fairly early. Arguably, Artila go in that category. Vlish certainly do.

You never read my Church of the Nine-Headed Cave Cow thread, did you, DeVlish. Pfft

STICKS TO STEAKS

As has been observed a kazillion times, the answer may be very different depending on difficulty settings.

I would be very cautious about adding new ability or creature or item definitions. Modifying already existing ones is pretty safe, but we have no idea how Jeff stores the definitions in memory. It may not be set up to handle more than a certain number of abilities, or abilities that are not numbered a certain way. It's probably safe, but if it does cause an error, it could be an icky one. This goes without saying, but test that on a copy of the game folder and not the original. Also, starting out with 10 AP *and* a baton *is* overpowered, way way way moreso than an acid baton would be. Plated Bugs don't have missile attacks, so their bonus AP isn't so hot. The 10 AP thing should be an upgrade, probably the last upgrade. Also, starting out with 25% resistance to everything doesn't make sense either. That's a reasonable upgrade at some point, but to begin with non-armor resistances ought to be lower. Standard armor gives you half its armor value as resistance to energy, fire, and ice. Poison and acid resists deserve to be low, and mental effects certainly should be low or nonexistant given the quality of Alwan's reasoning resistances: 0 physical 1 energy 2 fire 3 disruption (resistance is handled entirely by creature_type) 4 poison 5 acid 6 ice 7 mental I'm not sure how stun is resisted by creations (if at all).