Men are from Slars

Actually, without the trainer it would be 8 1/2. It costs 20 skill points to raises an Agent's Blessing Magic to 9 (it starts at 1) and 16 to raise it to 8. A trainer will only save you the first two skill points. (For a guardian, on the other hand, it will give you eight skill points worth of blessing magic...)

YES really, kuc. I am well aware of the basic three-way division, but a better word for it than "generically" would be "stereotypically." Perhaps you should go look at the original analysis here . Just because the Guardian is presented as "the" melee class does not necessarily mean it is actually better at it.

Actually, the health factor was discussed in that thread from the get-go, though admittedly not with numbers. I think that got defused by D.V.'s recurring exclamations about how easily everything dies on Torment no matter how much health you have Student of Trinity wrote: "The point isn't so much that the melee Agent would be a weak Guardian, but that she would be so much like a Guardian that you might as well play a real Guardian instead." You could just as easily say "the Guardian would be so much like a melee Agent that you might as well play a real melee Agent instead." *shrug*

I said that PUMPING blessing magic is not useful. i.e., bringing both it and spellcraft up to 20 as is often done with battle magic -- this would be a waste. I certainly wasn't implying that a melee agent should avoid using blessing magic! Good god no. And there are very few circumstances under which ANY kind of agent should EVER attack something which is undazed and won't die from the attack if you have less than 10 AP remaining. Cmon, common sense people. Melee agents may end up Dazing more often than a battle magic agent, but you won't be using essence or energy on spells much -- especially once you get a Regenerating Claymore. The argument that they are just like weak guardians is COMPLETELY fatuous. There's a thread here (Agent vs. Guardian I think) where I did out the math; by the late game the Agent will only be a few levels shorter on melee stats, but can opt to have a very functional Daze and Strong Daze. The Guardian won't be able to daze tougher creations without completely neglecting other stats; this is a huge disadvantage.

Pumping blessing magic is not very useful, as there seems to be a 'ceiling' effect -- after a certain point, bless doesn't get more powerful, etc., although they do last longer. It is however very possible to play agents melee-style. Compared to guardians, the loss of a few points on some melee skills is more or less balanced with the significantly easier time you'll have keeping Daze functional. The agent is more flexible, though. There's no real advantage to this over the standard battle magic agent, but it's extremely doable.

Yes, that's it. I can see it now... GENEFORGE 4: REVENGE OF DIWANIYA I guess he enlisted those minotaurs for aid, huh.

I'm not exactly a fan of the minotaur idea, SoT, but it's not much more far-fetched than the Vahnatai were in Exile II — and they were a huge hit. Similarly, the change from subterranean to surface in the next game was extremely drastic, yet Exile III was even more popular than its predecessors. If Jeff wanted to get rid of the canisters, I'm sure he's capable of recombining (hee hee) the things about them that people like — the 'free' stat boosting, the corruption, the decisions — in some other commercially viable way.

Some people mostly use Torment. Some of them post a lot. Most people mostly use Normal. However, they are plenty of both here, so you really ought to identify this when you post about strategy. The game is a drastically different experience on these two settings. They also tend to lead people to very different strategies, since Normal allows you to play in a number of different ways, whereas Torment really forces you to use only the most efficient tactics.

Yes, this was discussed quite a bit when GF3 released originally.

Did we ever conclude whether the "weightless armor" effect reduces damage from all attacks, or just the plain physical ones that regular armor is good against?

There are both rebel and loyalist research notes quests, and they are both on the third island. I think (though I don't remember) they provide equal gold and XP rewards.

What Hume said. I don't know why no one listens when people explain this. The experience penalty is ridiculously temporary as a result of this, and you will generally just float along 0-3 levels behind a solo character.

A-vlishing we will go! A-vlishing we will go! High ho the merry-o, a-vlishing we will go!

No, there is no other place to undergo the test or upgrade the bracelet. (Rather annoyingly. Boats, boats, boats...)

Well, there is a slowing enhancement, which is essentially the same thing as stunning (melee attack, Glaahk or Stunning Blade stunning, not Stun spell stunning). I think it's from the blue crystal (Runed something). The Stunning Blade is ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL if you are only fighting a single enemy. My melee agent used it to dice up golems and other highly resistant enemies. The Stunning Blade will get you 2 stuns regularly with good Quick Action and melee stats, whereas the enhancement will only get you 1, and not even 1 every attack. I think the regeneration enhancement fits it better -- if you don't have to pause for healing, that's 2 extra stuns you get in, which is huge even if you are hasted and attacking 3 times per round. However, against multiple regular strength enemies you are much better off with the raw damage power of the Claymore. The Stunning Blade would also be extremely effective for a Guardian supported by Glaahks. Actually -- that sounds like a fun theme, eh Delicious Vlish? The Glaahkmeister.

I suppose exitzone is fair play? Waiting for those ornks to cross zones takes forever...

It seems like bless and shielding have a ceiling as to how strong the effect is, although they (and speed) certainly last longer with better skill. By halfway through the game a guardian will be nearly as capable as an agent at buffing.

All of them work both ways, except for regeneration. Steel spines on a sword do extra damage the same way that fire cold and acid enhancements do, except the damage is physical. I think it does slightly more damage, but I haven't tested much.

>What do the "Strikes faster" and "Dodges blows" enchantments do (from >Tiny Orb of Mist)? One improves your Quickness skill and another reduces the damage from blows slightly. And what, if anything, does the "Regeneration" >enchantment do on armor? I think this was bugged and didn't do anything, but will have a clear effect in 1.0.2. Forget what it was, though.

indeed. I think I got confused by the redundant "no battle magic." in that case, all you're really doing is running a guardian with weaker skills.

The Reviving Crystal, btw, is probably the best weapon enhancement for any character, since none of the others are defensive, and the extra damage from the other enhancements will likely make little difference for a character who hasn't put many points into sword skills. Incidentally, has anyone experimented with the elemental blades (well, the Acid and Ice ones, since the Fire one didn't get tagged with the fire effect, presumably a bug)? Are they very effective, and at all worth considering over the Guardian Claymore?

Yes, has anyone figured out what in the world determines if you can enhance a particular piece of equipment? I can't find any pattern and it seems to be completely arbitrary (except that I think all completely nonmagical equipment cna be enhanced).

I'll still argue that melee-focused Agents are no harder than melee-focused Guardians, if not easier. Daze is really useful and more than makes up for the reduced HP supply and the lower QA and Parry scores.

I want to say no ripostes, but not being able to pump parry could be a hassle. *shrug* Use your best judgment. Khoth has a good point. I suppose a true purist would not kill anything before getting spines!

Lately there's been discussion of less typical offensive focuses, like missile weapons. Here's my challenge, if any of you are crazy enough to take it on. Run a character where your ONLY source of damage is STEEL SPINE enhancements. Details: * Before spines are available, you can kill things however you like. * Enemies that either do not have melee attacks (turrets, spawners, etc.) or will almost never use them (artila) can be dispatched by other means, as well. * Dominate (and other dominating effects) are NOT okay, as that defeats the purpose of the challenge. * Creations and NPCs are not in spirit, either (except as pacifist meatshields) (And no pyroroamer meatshields, kamikaze bombers are not pacifists) A Guardian is obviously best suited to this challenge, though you're free to use the other classes. You'll want to pump Endurance a lot, as well as Healing Craft, and probably some Blessing Magic. You'll also need Strength and Luck, for their stun resistance. You'll need a LOT of stun resistance, so pull out those Glaahk Shields and Impervious Bands! You'll also want to be careful what equipment you use your spines on, since they are in limited supply. Have, um, fun!