alhoon

How far on GF3? I have only be able to play for... an hour or so. Just mid-clearing the academy, the zone after the tutorial.

I found Alwan and he seems very much like an inexperienced Alwan to be sincere. He's not powerful as in GF4 nor influential as GF5 so he seethes with rage cause he's as much fanatic as in those games.

I haven't found Greta yet.

I found the teacher, Hoge, and I think he's not just a coward shaper, I think he's rebel.

I think my professor (shaper class), that probably had taught me for years, that my char was so in awe of, that could tell my char by a look proving familiarity... collaborated with rebels to bring in monsters to kill nearly defenseless teenagers he spent years training.

I had the option to attack him, and I had a fyora and Alwan with me. But seriously, I don't know if we could deal with the battle alpha he had at this point, let alone a shaper. A hit by a -worm- at this time, takes half my health!

However, my contempt for him couldn't be greater. Unlike the random rebel lifecrafter, traitor shaper or Drakon, he knew the students personally. He was tasked with our protection. He admits, openly, that the other teachers immediately charged the enemies, no thoughts of retreat and died fighting. You know, the thing you expect from mage mentors in a magocracy that see the future of their sacred organization under mortal danger.

About the comment of "We don't learn much about what happened in Sucia" we also haven't learned much about what happened in the Ashen islands!

Sure, Litalia, Greta and Alwan all have told me "The academy was attacked. We won. Later on, we conquered them all and kicked shapers out." But that is it.

Another shaper in GF4, an old woman purist (like internal shaper police) that called me freak and then shaped me to give me +1 spellcraft (yes, shapers are crazy) told me that the headmaster or something, Rahul fought like a hero etc gave his life to stop the monsters and all. I think she had a crush on that shaper boss.

I have also learned from Drakons that... Ghaldring was there. And Akari Blaze.

And that is it. That is all I've learned about GF3 from the rest. Perhaps I forget a couple of details but I really don't know enough for it to be spoiled.

As a note, I want to tell everyone that I give a good report of the "interesting" parts and important NPCs to my sister, that doesn't play these games but asks me about how X did etc. I actually take notes when playing so I can tell her.

While we occasionally do that for movies, the story of the saga is captivating that every part I play, deserves a long facebook \ phone discussion.

My sister is the one demanding I go the shaper route in this game. And I usually listen to my big sister.

It sure explains your perspective and I would probably feel the same... if I played GF1 or GF2. For me, even the notion of shaper student is new. For the first time EVER I'm not a freak, but a shaper-wannabe! For the first time ever I see things like "Attack on shapers? That can't be possible."

NOT being given access to a geneforge yet also feels fresh.

I hope I find one soon, cause my character feels the weakest starting character I had.

I wonder if, by a miracle, for the first time in over 150 hours of playing Geneforge games, I'll find a shaper tutor that will teach me WITHOUT telling me how much of a freak I am and how many sacred laws I break by existing and how he or she only teaches me because of necessity.

I have grown frustrated with Shapers looking down their nose on me at the very least for not being part of their sacred above-all order.

Moseh, in GF4, literally impaled in machines powered by drawing the life out of people or creations... called ME a freak.

This time, I can look at lifecrafters in the face and tell them they are the freaks! I can give back some of the abuse I've endured by shapers for over 150 hours!

When the Servant mind called me "powerful shaper" (LOL) and told me how the ungrateful rogues we brought to power turned upon us I wanted to kiss the screen.

Hmmm? Did you prefer the openings of the other games? Why if I may ask so?

Every once in a while, you have heard rumors of different sorts of serviles, rogue serviles, who are smart, disobedient, and even rebellious. You've always dismissed those rumors as nonsense.

All of the Shapers' creations are made to happily serve the Shapers. How could it be otherwise?

LOOOOOL

Hillarious.

GF3 beginning is certainly the best from GF3-5. The propaganda (See above), my shock of finding the dead novices etc.

Now, if I didn't have to kill worms but actually was a bit more powerful...

The beginning:

I think GF3 had the best and most moving beginning. With your dead classmates that the game give you some background info on. These are not shapers, these are young people that aspired to be shapers and the game makes effort to give some personality to the dead bodies you loot.

Litalia's attack on the school is a terrible thing. I may go pro-shaper in this game.

They never pull their weight by the endgame... Although they have such high dex that enemies miss a lot, it doesn't make up for their lack of health and damage. BUT... I keep them for the cheap, cold damage. Sure, I could use Cryodrayks but they were more expensive. So, a high level Cryora's breath would do a lot of damage to a drakon (magic resistant, high armor, fire resistant) or drayk in GF4 and GF5.

Thank you for the answer though, even if it was "bad news".

Also, is there a way to "import" GF4 and GF5 Cryora graphics to GF3?

Vlish?

Meh, I don't like them at all. I consider them ... ugly.

I'll go for 5 creations. 1 will be a Cryora, 1 will be a drayk\drakon and 1 will be a gazer. So at first I'll have cryora\4 vlish and then reduce them as I get Drayks and gazer

Hi all! I'll soon start GF3 playing a shaper. I've finished GF4 and GF5. So I'd like to see how the rebellion started etc.

First, I would kindly like to ask people to refrain from giving me spoilers about GF3.

Then I would like to inform people that I will give spoilers as I play the game.

What I know is that the rebellion will start, that Litalia, Akari Blaze and Ghaldring are there and I'll see how Greta the great general of the rebels and Alwan the scourge of the rebellion started out.

Now, I would like to ask what's different gameplay-wise from GF3 to GF5, for playing the shaper class.

Are there artifacts? Magic anvils to make them? I already saw that each item in the inventory adds weight ( )

I also heard that unlike GF4-5, an attack takes 5 action points.

Anyway, to precise questions:

- Are there items that give a significant boost to mechanics and leadership, or I need to invest to them more?

- Which creations are good, which are bad and which are OK?

- Limit is 6 cannisters before you get over the limit, correct?

- Are there books, like in GF5 to train you to stuff, or it's just trainers and cannisters?

- How long is the game compared to GF5? (Took me about 80 hours to finish it)

- What level should I be about when finishing it? I was about lvl 36-37 when finished GF4 and lvl 48 when I finished GF5.

- Is it possible to experience both Shaper and Rebel endings without replaying half the game?

- How easy\hard the game is? I had no problems with the "normal" difficulty of GF4 and GF5. Not boring, not frustrating for the most part.

- Is it really possible to end the game with very few fights? Has anyone done it?

OK, it was worth it

Alwan's ending was... complete. Trakovites faded away, Litalia, hunted down and killed. The Rebellion was crushed but as a symbolic gesture of mercy, Alwan allowed them to live out their lives (for a generation) in exile.

Geneforges, seen as the ultimate symbol of corruption of the Shaper Law (I knew it!) were destroyed. Rawal got kicked out of the council and exiled.

I killed Greta in the ending battle. It was... disappointing to the extreme. She just cast searer over and over. Not even close to what I expected from her. She was more or less as dangerous as a War Trall.

And no message when she died.

Back in Geneforge 4, when shaper Miranda died and when Alwan died, I got a message. In this, when a councilor (or Ghaldring) died, I got a message. Not so for Greta. Nothing. Just a pathetic fight and death as if she was a war trall.

At least, Alwan mentioned her in the last message (hinting to me that she could possibly have been convinced to not fight). He said he had run out of forgiveness for her. (Probably because she killed Miranda)

I was glad to see that unlike the shaper ending of GF4, the shapers in their victory didn't become more strict and more absolute.

ALWAN ENDING:

(I have lost track how many times I traveled to the accursed spire to destroy Taygen's research. I have learned the path from the cells by heart. By the time I try Taygen's finale I may be able to do it with closed eyes. And the worst part is to repeat the grind that leads to Ghaldring's death...)

I went to the citadel. The Serviles there, the ones that with Astoria and Litalia warned me about the attack...

tried to kill me! Including Mekhen that was with me in the very beginning, that I have saved her life etc. Me, that I have broken the fort and was pro-rebel for most of the game!

Me that had 3 tier 5s with me and a Fyora stronger than the average Cryodrayk... Well, I gave them the chance to leave (and live) and they took it.

The meeting at the council was somewhat more subdued than I expected. Alwan proclaimed he has found a way to fight the Unbound with ease... if we kill Ghaldring. Riiiiiight.

His way of "Defeating them with ease" seems closer to "we will throw everything at them; if Drakon bosses die they can't make more".

The way they were talking to me and about me makes me a little... pessimistic about my future in the victorious shaper empire.

Anyway... to slay Ghaldring! Again. Outside, inside, inner. 2 hours of grinding will follow to see the ending. I hope it's worth it.

But in the ending, the "surviving Drakons" agree to destroy their geneforges... that means that Drakons are probably allowed to exist

LITALIA ENDING

QUESTION: Did I miss something, or with Litalia's ending there's no "land of Sucia" ? There was no mention about that. Just a moratorium on shaper research and draining of the geneforges.

What happened with Drakons, Drayks and Gazers that existed?

OMG! That crazy witch Litalia, mastermind of the rebellion, Trakovite terrorist...

slipped after me into the citadel dome to address the freaking Shaper council! O_O

And she prevailed! Trakovites for the win! Shapers will stop researching if we kill Ghaldring.

Or so the shapers promised. Not sure how that will hold even if the shaper council actually embraces that philosophy.

But Litalia prevailed. A lone Trakovite brought an end to centuries of Shaper tradition.

Now, Litalia has to sacrifice her closest ally for over a decade, the drakon they started the rebelion with, for her (new) beliefs. And she's all for it. To compare, when a Drakon spoke badly about Litalia to Ghaldring, Ghaldring threatened to kill the instigator; that's how close the two were.

That woman is insane... there's a reason I like her so much and that is it.

You may say that the rebellion brought an end to shaper traditions but Litalia started the rebellion, so...

Very, very true observation. She attacked teenagers that couldn't defend themselves, helped to create the Unbound and all..

But I like her very much as an NPC. She more or less is worse than the Drakons. Everything the shapers hate...

The reply when I made a question about the task she gave me with Taygen (to UNLEASH the disease) earned her the place in my signature.

In Alwan's control core B, I found... a creation able to make creations! O_O

Alwan is either unaware that one of his guys did that or he's willing to go FAR further to win the war than I thought.

Working towards my Litalia ending.

Man, this is a really immoral line of work... its assignment is a crime against humanity so far!

I didn't say that as a shaper I would ever forgive Rawal. In fact, I would ask for his head since he abandoned the battle and built the most illegal piece of magic tool that is, whatever the reason.

However, it seems logical that building the most illegal piece of magic tool to not be seen as terrible AFTER such a war

It's certainly not good, but I highly doubt that it's the worst thing possible

Thinking of it, it seems it was the worse thing possible according to shaper law and values as it was in GF4 before Shapers got a huge beating.

Shaper law and values that went down the drain after the end of the world since rogues became diplomats, Drakons and barred creations were allowed to exist, and next to the 2 provinces of Terrestia were the 4+3 provinces of Sucia with their cannisters.

The shapers had to endure drakon diplomats in their midst, servile envoys looking down their big noses on them etc.

So, in the midst or just after such apheaval of the "old shaper way of thinking" which could not accomodate cannisters, drakons, drayks, out-of-guild shapers, rogue creations... having a geneforge without any proof of its use indeed seems less jarring.

Now add that Rawal was a councilor, that he had blackmail material etc and people would be more ready to accept excuses like "Oh, that geneforge? OF COURSE I didn't plan to use it to create my own army of shapers! I made it to study the enemy! OK, 2-3 of my followers were changed so I could study the effects, but their sacrifice was necessary for the war! Cannisters in the foundry? OMG! I have no idea who put them there."

After all, in real history, the Great War radically changed the way people thought about monarchs, governments etc. The devastation brought by the rebellion was similar I think.

Not really, since my character destroyed that blackmail material (Astoria ending) for one councilor. Also, having a geneforge and shaping your servants with cannisters after placing in them a control tool is worse than anything in the eyes of the shapers.

A very plausible explanation since he was a shaping powerhungry leader of the Drakons, the equivalent of Alwan IMO. But I would like to read about it never the less. After all, Akhari knew how to make Unbound... If he escaped, he could shape 5-6 Drayk technicians, make a few cannisters and put up a lab in the blasted lands to suddenly drop a new wave of Unbound on Sucia o Terrestia.

About the fight in the city... playing Astoria's finale I was talking to people and traders that had their goals, tried to use me get the ear of the council (some to learn magic, some to get access to more customers etc).

People that I have KILLED during Ghaldring's finale. I would have a hard time doing it if I played the endings in reverse. I.e. if I had met all those quite nice people that were so eager to get in my good side, I would have trouble in the Ghalding ending, since I would try to avoid killing them.

I had trouble already in Taygen's battle to avoid killing his consort when my for-the-fight shaped non-controlled Rotgroths were closing to her house.

(Absorbed a rotgroth before it killed the "naturalist" merchant)

Also: In neither Astoria nor Rawal ending, Rawal faces judgement for building a geneforge! Sure, all geneforges are destroyed which means his geneforge is discovered too. Taygen was exiled as a dangerous madman as expected. Rawal was WORSE. he was giving out cannisters and had a geneforge.

Astoria finale:

(I consider this, my "official" finalle. The rest are just out of curiosity. In this one, I did a lot of quest remnants.)

HEAVY SPOILERS AHEAD! ! !

The battle

The battle with the drakons was surprisingly easy. The Shapers were for the most part, surprisingly cowardish.

Astoria was keeping up her reserve for the last battle, while her lieutenants were hanging back. When I was playing with Ghaldring, I had Akari Blaze with me, a force of Drakons (not just 3 shapers) and Ghaldring himself was keeping back reinforcements from the Citadel.

With Astoria... I crossed the whole outside and city without seeing a single other shaper, and they were controling creations from afar.

And in the end? After I had deactivated pylons, killed Drakon guards and all? We all charged Ghaldring and the two drakon leaders. As in Astoria, 3 shapers (shaper, agent, guardian), me and my 7 creations and 8 other creations I had taken over! That was too shapey. I charged in battle with 15 creations. -15- We didn't have room to maneuver.

Ghaldring, as expected, died as a hero. Also, as expected he was screaming nonsense like "the time of humans is over! The time of serviles will never come! This is the time of Drakons!"

Greta totally, totally betrayed Ghaldring. Not even remorse! Sure, in the other finalle we did a coup de Grace with her, but ... she could have just NOT be there instead of turning her back to him. I learned in the finalle screens that she and the serviles have been planning to betray the Drakons since when Astoria reached out to them.

The ending:

So... Mekhen, the starting servile, became an envoy. She and Greta have been planning to betray the Drakons for some time. Can't really appreciate them for that, although Ghaldring was more or less clear that he planned to become the boss.

My character, unlike Ghalding's ending becomes a Shaper envoy in the rebels!

Alwan, a fanatic but not hypocrite allowed himself to die before singing the armisticle. As such, Rawal dominated the new council. Alas... we can't have them all.

What happened with Akari Blaze? No word about him. In this finalle, he's completely absent.

And so, that was my finalle. I am... sad. Bittersweet moment the finishing of this game. I have clocked about 85 hours playing GF5 alone (I was counting).

Sure, I have some finalles to explore yet. Litallia's I am looking forward, the rest not so much. But effectively, I consider now that I finished the game.

(and that Ghaldring's finalle was better).

GHALDRING ENDING! ! !

(heavy, heavy spoilers ahead!)

I finally finished the first of the finales. I did it mostly out of curiosity since I am split between Astoria and Litallia for my "Real" ending.

However, the Drakon finalle seemed very, very good to me. What happend in my Drakon finalle was: Drakons seize the moment and crush the shapers. Meanwhile my character, Greta and the moderates are sent to the east to stay out of the way.

Knowing when that leads, we build a counter-revolution and when the Drakons are about to win... we strike and bring them down too. It's not a counter-revolution since we're not with the Shapers, it's a coup-de-Grace within the revolution. After beating the exhausted, depleated Drakons fast and easy, everything more or less exists in some form.

Trakovites are around and gaining traction. Geneforges and dangerous power-giving techniques are eradicated. Creations realize that Shaper Laws were around for a reason so we more or less follow them in the future. Shapers keep their first two provinces. Rebels keep the larger (but devastated) part of the continent.

The part that confused me is this, about my character "No really rebel or shaper..." :?

But... I'm the person that killed -6- out of 7 councilors! That I broke the line! That brought the Shaper empire to its knees! I was pro-rebel before joining factions, to the point that Shapers didn't like me at all!

Also, no word of what happened to Akari Blaze.

Hyena: I stopped reading your post when you started mentioning stuff I haven't seen from GF3 yet. I am close to finishing GF5 and I plan to play GF3 then. So far in GF3, I haven't got out of the tutorial zone.

About Guardians and agents: Nah, I don't mean (exactly) that they receive training in armor and combat in the 4th year, I would say they could well receive from the beginning some training while in armor to get used to it (like squires did), progressing to heavier armors as they become stronger.

And I think that yes, they receive rudimentary training in combat in their last year, and then it's a process like boot camp+menial tasks period for a few years, where they actually learn the basics of being an Agent\Guardian\Shaper.

Personally, as I said, I think that the academy could be seen as a prolonged live-in high-school, since they learn the very very basics of being a shaper\guardian\agent there. More like learning basic algebra, biology and literature in high-school. You pick a focus in the end and then you go to university matching your decisions\talents.

Since Guardians especially and some Agents are fighting people, I think they learn the very basic things that they will need once they get out of the academy.

In any case, the shapers show little-to-no-care about the people that finish the education; the tests taken in the end of the road, are deadly. (I found a dead prospect at GF5 testing halls). As such, I wouldn't consider it strange to not train their students optimally.

Presumably he was a pretty old drayk before he used the Geneforge. Hence, decades later, a very old drakon.

What? Drayks shaped themselves to Drakons?!?!? Drayks can "improve" to Drakons?

But Ghaldring said they were made by a shaper. And I have found "very old" Drayks too.

Err, Danette and company on Sucia discovered that centuries earlier.

Did they, or they just made the geneforge without realizing what DNA is etc? I haven't played GF1, so I don't know.

Taygen discovered cells comprise living things and that DNA controls how cells are formed!

Well, madman or not, that was awesome bit of research

Yes, I plan doing his finale eventually.

Right now, I'm "meh" that his battle is very anti-climatic. When I got him alone in his castle by accident, I crushed him like a bug. In his throne, he was bring in rotgroths and had super-soldiers. He was also casting an area spell that did tons of damage. Now? Now he summoned some worthless slugs and throwing just essence orbs.

I'm glad he survived. I enjoyed his castle very much.