alhoon

I don't disagree because I have no experience playing those. I also was not clear when I posed my question apparently. What I meant was a "Fighter\mage" that is "ranged magic and then melee for when energy runs out". I did some tests (I have an "arena mod" for such things) and ... frankly the only viable melee\magic hybrid is mental magic heavy, to cast daze and then beat the other side with your sword. But if you are magic-heavy and you are an infiltrator... you're better off toping the daze with battle magic than a weapon. I.e. Infiltrator diverting some skills to melee (which means also strength, quick action etc) is suboptimal to boosting battle magic and intelligence and hiding behind a few meat shield creations.

Oh oh... before you exit that argument, just one sentence: So... it's not that they're "too weak", it's that they are not fun to play which is downright damning by itself since this is a game. That IMO is much more important than questions of balance. Back to JackEnOff: Shaper is better in hard because... magic is better. You also don't have to divert as much to strength as you won't wear as heavy armor. Still, if you plan to go with "Creation army with PC minor support" perhaps you could try a Shocktrooper for the slightly extra challenge ... although if the Shocktrooper is more boring to play that would be a problem. I cannot in good conscience suggest you to play a class that will be boring. Random question: While Servile is better as fighter/mage, would it be viable to have an Infiltrator Fighter/mage build? Without much mental magic and only temporary creations when needed that is?

Than Shaper? Why "Way more" than a little tougher if I may ask? I have played GF5 as mostly a "Shaping Shaper" with items and artifacts that boost the Creations, no mind magic at all except the 3 points to use "unlock", not those boots that give Action Points etc, mostly relying on the creations to do the fighting and it was... easy-ish. Easier than GF4 I would think. So since at least in my experience all you need is Shaping and a bit of blessing magic, I would expect Shaper to be just a bit more powerful than a Shocktrooper. What I mean is that I have found that in normal difficulty at least, in GF5 a Shaper\Lifecrafter acting as nothing more than an "Inventory" and staying completely out of the fights is able to nicely deal with the whole game without a hiccup. So, since a "person focusing on an army of powerful creations without spending more than a few skills in blessing magic" is enough, I don't see how buying those few levels in blessing magic 2 skill points more expensively will make a great difference. In the end, you'll end with 2-3 blessing magic below a Shaper and perhaps 1-2 levels less in a Shaping talent. I don't see how that would be much more difficult.

Go for Shocktrooper IMO. Why? Because I think it would be more interesting. Shocktroopers are good in Shaping and the blessings for your creatures when needed, you can get from items. It would be a little tougher than with a Shaper (because magic > fighting) but not much. If you use Gamerman's mod for the artifact weapons and batons, it would be easier and it would give you something to look forward to. Also, in case you're interested in mods, my mod about Shapers\Lifecrafters could be used with a Shocktrooper without problems. It's meant as a mod for "Shaping primary" types.

True... I was thinking Spellcraft 2~>7 without items vs BMagic 10~>15 without items Question: Is Battle Magic really capped in GF4? Or it's only for Shaping?

Pure magic infiltrator could be very good, but it's not the 15 battle magic that would make her good. For starters to get battle magic from 10~>15 it would probably be cheaper to raise spellcraft by 5 and it would add to everything. However, I am not an expert on these kind of things. I always played a Shaper and had my troops do the heavy lifting.

Or gone bat-crazy, insane and locked in the Foundry to be studied by people that don't suspect who he is.

Everything is viable more or less with the right determination. Including probably a Servile that focuses ONLY on Shaping battle creations or a Shaper (shaper class) that focuses only on melee combat or a Guardian that focuses only on battle magic if you enjoy a huge challenge while fighting with one arm tied behind your back, finding other ways around some battles etc. For magic-and-melee I believe infiltrator is better because he's magic first. For Melee-and-magic then I believe Servile is better. Personally, believe 15 battle magic is a waste of skill for every kind of character. I mean those tons of skill points you will sink there will give you like +15 damage on kill or something.

Frankly, the Monarch from GF4 also fits the description and is a fan-favorite. I also prefer to think it's the GF3 protagonist (or GF4 protagonist) but the way the game is written, is on purpose vague so you could assume it's your GF4 servile (if you play a servile) or your GF3 agent (if you play a sorceress-agent-infiltrator). What we know is that the GF5 protagonist was an important person that Greta, Litalia and Alwan recognize and perhaps Ghaldring has seen. Nothing else. The rest is conjecture. Everything you said about the GF3 protagonist, fits the GF4 protagonist too. He\she has met the big four, he\she was over the switch with the "destroy the Unbound" \ "finish the Unbound" (a vastly important decision) and Litalia has reasons to think you are pissed with her for the way she threw you under the bus twice in GF4.

Perhaps this is the wrong thread but... what happens if you try to finish the game as a servile working for Taygen? Are you done for when the disease is released? As for the GF3 protagonist, that's what I want to believe although it creates some loops. Ghaldring also recognizes you I think. Of course he could have met the GF3 protagonist once he was geneforged or something. Random answers: About Litalia apologizing: It's not that she was nice to you in GF4. You were grabbed and Geneforged without anyone telling you would probably end up mad or a ball of goo. Also: "For all you know, you bore a great grudge against her once. There is no way of knowing yet." I.e. the previous is a hypothesis the protagonist makes.

What I meant was more in line of "You could assume your GF3 PC or GF2 PC or GF4 PC was the one without asking "how my guardian became a servile?" if you played with a servile. What I mean is that if we go for a "Clear" background for the GF5 PC, then he or she will most probably be someone new and NOT a former protagonist in order to conform to "But I played Servile in GF4 and a Sorceress in GF5!" or "I played an agent in GF3 and a guardian in GF5" etc I.e. I believe leaving it open leads to more happy fans IMO.

That would IMO not be very good. The way it is now, we can assume that the GF3 character or GF4 character was the protagonist or even the GF2 character.

Awesome. I will finally get to play the GForge game you all loved and hopefully the various inconsistencies with later games that are probably there will be retconned.

Yes. But the entries for Creations is shorter. You can check that yourself if you want Kian.

Doing some guesswork, in case anyone wants to do some serious modding of GF2 or I decide to take on it in the future (although I would guess GF2 remake would be in the works in like 4-5 years making such work kinda redundant) the creations probably start 25500 in the hex editor. In the Drypeak zone, I can see Shanti's z1 script a little down, leading me to think that indeed the mass FF FF FF FF things are for creations, hopefully in the format found in GF5. EDIT: Nope, they don't follow the same format. The creation entries are somewhat shorter for GF2. So... yeah, a lot of guesswork.

Just to be clear: When I said "adding a new creation" I meant things like adding creature #44 to a zone with 43 creatures in it, whether it is a servile, a cryora or a Gazer. Which requires hex editing and since the zones are different than GF4-5 etc, it frankly requires both work and guesswork.

Congratulations on your first mod. 😎 It may seem small to you, but it is still a mod. Perhaps you could find the courage to make a cheat-mod where you talk to someone and he, she or it raises your stats and then upload it. Truth be told, the Barzites and even Tuldaric should be on board even story-wise.

"Would it be possible to increase the value of a gemstone to like $10000 by editing the scripts folder? " Yes. Geneforge 2 > Data > Scripts open gforscen.txt find this and make the changes begindefineitem 2; it_name = "Gemstone"; it_variety = 11; it_graphic_sheet = 2; it_which_icon_ground = 7; it_which_icon_inven = 8; it_charges = 1; it_value = 10000; it_extra_description = 8;

Thinking more about the previous one, it should be possible, without tremendous effort to add a "new" creation that is a bigger graphical version of another creation. I.e. the big drakons of the Awakened in the something-of-winds. I.e. you could have Learned-something (awakened boss) send a letter or something to the guys there and get them to shape for you a huge drakon and assign him to you, and with the right scrips here and there, the drakon could even say his thing, say when facing the Takers or something. Since adding a creation in the game is too much effort, your best bet, without huge effort, would be to have them give you a boosted-up creation. Reward-wise, if you want artifacts etc, it's much easier. You could make an item as imba as you like in the scripts and then insert it as a reward in the game at the end of a quest chain. Say, you could have the Banite guys ask you to steal important staff from the Awakened, then from lying Zakary the Deceiver, bring them a ton of essence pods and staff and Zaaaaaaap the item you've scripted so that you could get it as a reward from text.

1) Yes, that is easy. I don't have time right now, but it is very easy to do so. 2) That can't be changed I think, what I did in geneforge 3 was to give extra APs to melee creations so they could move further and attack. It is probably possible in GF2 too. 3) The graphic mod I used is... somewhere in the site. However it made it very hard to spot a certain lever or two. Use with care. 4) Depends on what you mean by "fun". If you mean adding extra zones, that's waaaay too much work. If you mean adding text-based quests or descriptions that end up giving you stuff, then it is possible and quite easy. If you mean mods on the bosses to make them act differently or have more Zap powers etc, that is possible but it takes more effort. If you mean mods that try to bypass the bug with the strength-to-creations items that is also possible. If you mean adding more items that do stuff, it is possible but takes some effort. It is probably possible to have quests to add different people in your party, like those serviles you get etc. I.e. you could make a quest chain or something to get say the Barzites to give you a drakon or Rotdhizon for your party from those that sit around in their base - essence free. It is also very easy to modify the level of someone in a zone, so effectively you could go to Tuldaric, have a text-based quest chain, have him ZAAAAAAP to power a servile dude to say level 30 with bonus hit points and attacks and then assign him to you. It may also be possible to have those guys speak like Greta and Alwan do in GF3, but I haven't tested that.

What... is that the locked level that Litalia got the key?

Well, with both sides being able to spam soldiers at a moment's notice, soldiers that haven't been lovingly raised by parents for 15-20 years etc, tends to me this hard. I would frankly think the Trakovites are right in this regard: As long as you have Shaping, you will have conflict simply because casualties don't matter. And if you start shaping shapers like the rebellion? heh. Then it won't matter if Shapers die. You can always create more. The Monarch kinda got on this train hard. Why have anything else, if you can make loyal servants and hordes of non-hostile soldiers? Simply kill everything and remake the world as you like it.

Yes, but there are ways to balance that out. The suggestion is to balance out a creature for 3-4 rounds of battle. Sure, your creation would be attacking in the previous battles too, but then it would get wounded in the big fight, so it comes down to the same thing... theoretically. But yes, it is not the same thing. But it is not a bad way to balance it out... as long as the creation doesn't have large area attacks!!!! If you create a drayk and give it a breath weapon that is a cone of 30 ft or something, and the Drayk's breath does some serious damage, then you're off the chart. As simple as that.

"That for creations to stand any chance against the shapers it would require extreme measures and that living side by side was essentially impossible because free creations could not co exist with a nation of enslaved creations. " And yet, GF5 showed us that this wasn't the case. To a degree, even the Awakened GF2 ending did just that for at least some years.

It is exactly that: In some parts of the Shaper Empire, a few buildings (mainly forts) remain and many people are afraid to mention their history. The buildings in the Shaper cities are mostly constructions of the Shapers or a blend of Shaper-local culture except castles where they often kept good ones they conquered. When you visit places with ghosts etc we are told those days are not taught. In Mera-Tev the local language is all but lost. Storm Plains have been tamed. Derra Reaches is the only place where the locals haven't been strongly assimilated as they are comparatively new additions (or, well, not really additions as the Shapers ignore the desert people). Considering the Shapers are around there for just a few centuries that was quite fast assimilation. Many conquered peoples under other empires usually kept their identity and language for centuries. For example, the Safavids (Persian dynasty) showed up a millennium after the Sassanids (previous Persian dynasty) have been conquered. Many Indian states kept their identity and culture despite being conquered by Turkic conquerors (Timur) and ruled by his successors and successor states + Britain. From what we have been shown in the game, at least in my opinion, it is clear that Shapers were a despotic, authoritarian magocracy that viewed very bad anything they perceived as challenge to their right-to-rule, including cultural identity, magic (restrictions on not-shaping magic too) and slightly diverging opinions. However, they had the insane power to spam forces for ever and the ability to create food from nothing (shape ornks) plus workers to take care of modified crops and construction (serviles). As such, resistance against them was futile. They had endless manpower to support their armies and industries. Aside of that they were also very powerful mages in the Pew-Pew-Boom-boom staff too; a shaper without creations is no pushover. You would either bow down and follow their commands or be crushed and annihilated. That seems to be the Shaper (and Drakon) imperialism. Hence, I strongly support the rebels, the human side. Greta - Astoria side.