Hyena of Ice

SS abandoning the iOS is not a bite in the ass for Apple. It's completely inconsequential, along with every other super-indie developer that they lose. Hell, even if they lose half their small to medium scale indie developers, it won't hurt them.

Shadowrun, or Dragonfall, are turn based rpgs with depth too. Banner Saga is another option, very well received, though didn't really click with me initially for some reason.

In-depth RPGs are premium games. They aren't selling anymore-- they're selling less and less for the desktop as well.

Compared to casual and free-to-play games, premium games (be they casual or not) cost more money. (the popularity of free-to-play games makes me especially sad-- I hate the free-to-play model with a passion-- which is also partly due to my disdain for MMO games, but also for my intense hatred for non-cosmetic microtransactions and in-game advertising. The lattermost is not only insidious for its distracting properties and browser slowdown, but it can also ruin the game atmosphere-- e.g. adverts in a medieval setting RPG, or an ad for low-cost plane tickets to Hawaii in a post-apocalyptic game. I have less of a problem with load screen advertising, though it can still harm the atmosphere)

Ugh, the Wiki page paints a very bleak future for gaming...

Pointing to the disruptive effect of free-to-play on current models, IGN editor Charles Onyett has said "expensive, one-time purchases are facing extinction". He believes that the current method of paying a one-time fee for most games will eventually disappear completely. Greg Zeschuk, of BioWare believes there is a good possibility that free-to-play would become the dominant pricing plan for games, but that it was very unlikely that it would ever completely replace subscription-based games. ] Developers such as Electronic Arts have pointed to the success of freemium, saying that microtransactions will inevitably be part of every game.

Personally, I never, and will never, purchase any game that doesn't allow me to DL the installer OR purchase the CD and play offline, so that I can install and play it any time I want, whenever I want, within the next 10-15 years barring system incompatibility. That means no DRM, which I despise every bit as much as the free-to-play genre. That is why I only purchase games straight from the dev site (granted, the only games I've ever purchased online so far are SS games The fact remains however, that I would never purchase a game from Big Fish, Wildtangent, or even Steam-- nor would I ever, EVER purchase a game that required a server to play)

Shadowrun, or Dragonfall, are turn based rpgs with depth too. Banner Saga is another option, very well received, though didn't really click with me initially for some reason.

Again, RPGs with "depth" are hardcore games. They can't compete with the casual games in the App market.

Prepare to be completely disappointed. With the rate that Apple updates its iOS for mobile devices, non-casual game makers are simply going to find it too difficult to keep up. The dev companies belonging to big-name publishers may be an exception. From a programming perspective, casuals are easier to re-script because there simply isn't as much script there to begin with.

I do not develop and sell games for iOS, so I can watch this market only from the outside but from what I see, this must have turned to a toxic soup of free-to-play titles, ambitious indie games and a few daring devs that try to keep up the banner for reasonably priced AAA games. I'd put you in the last group.

Yeah, I'm sure Jeff isn't the only one who has given up on the iOS, either. Seriously, they update the iPad and iPhone way too frequently, and don't get me started on the nutsos who just HAVE to get the latest model as soon as it hits the shelves (my niece is one of them) I mean Microsoft is bad enough when it comes to backwards-compatibility, but at least they only update their OS every 3 years or so.

It does not help, that you have virtually no way of discovering (or even properly searching) games on the AppStore besides the few lucky featured ones. The "charts" are crap. The ratings are crap. This is totally Apples fault and I'm stumped how they don't even try to fix this.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the big-name game companies bribe them into doing so, in order to quash competition from indie and starter companies-- similar to sneaky tactics that corporations use on small business (always be suspicious if you see a huge multinational corporation endorsing stronger regulations-- I am strongly pro-regulatory economy, mind you, but corporate lobbyists are constantly looking for ways to screw the small businesses over.)

iOS gaming has its problems. And one of them is, that it's too much infested with free-to-play and casual crap.

That's because it's what sells. Especially for mobile device users. The casual gaming curse has ALWAYS followed handheld consoles as well-- the most popular games for handhelds have always been platformers (mario bros, kirby, sonic the hedgehog, etc.) and puzzle games (including Dr Mario and Tetris) The curse also affects PC gaming to a lesser degree. Sure, the app-type games and sims predominate, but unlike with handhelds, First-Person-Shooters and MMORPGs are extremely popular as well.

Edit: did a search around the net-- found threads on two sites that discuss this topic.

Some of the more interesting comments:

This is defnitely sad news, but also understandable. The fans of Spiderweb's work have always been quite niche, but at the same time there really wasn't anyone else serving that hardcore, stupidly deep RPG genre on the App Store. I've seen a lot of games get broken with iOS updates, though I've never seen any with problems so insurmountable that the developers completely give up on them. Though I am not technical in any sense and perhaps the issues are deeper and more difficult to tackle than I realize. Also, I understand how frustrating it must be to try and sell incredibly niche titles in the App Store where they are perceived as "expensive" by the masses.

Likely opportunity cost. Vogel is basically a one-man show on the dev side, and he likes to release a game each year to keep the money coming in. Any time he has to spend fixing an unexpected bug now will cut into the planned dev time for Avadon 3, possibly delaying it past Christmas. I'm not happy about this situation, but I understand why he's doing it, especially if sales are as poor as he says they are.

""Seems like they had okay sales before, but then the sales dropped""

Actually, a surprising amount of premium games have been releasing lately. Although when your games are $10 on the App Store, you're already creating a niche due to who would pay that price unfortunately.

If it's totally breaking their games, surely this is something affecting other devs, too? And in that case, isn't Apple doing anything to address this?

Man that damn update is breaking all kinds of games. The amazing Drylands was also released broken because of the iOS update coming out after the game was already submitted. [censored] Apple stop updating [censored] lol

Glad I haven't updated since 8.1.2 or whatever I have... It really is a bit ludicrous that games get broken with every single update. How are developers supposed to cope with that?

This is a drag, and reminds me of the Llamasoft situation. Jeff Minter made so little in his games that doesn't want to come back to iOS, and considers it "the scene of a mugging" and doesn't even have a working Mac anymore.

I wonder if this is a sign of a larger trend. Sad.

Getting closer to posting the first chapter or two of my fic

There are a bunch of more realistic differences in my fics from the games, along with a few new spells and many new items.

STATS

I wrote out-- and edited images of the skill/abilities screens in G3 for the trio-- Significant to the fic as they determine the groups abilities-- They are merely a guideline of course-- The stats do not limit my writing. There are battle disciplines in my fic as well (melee, missile, QA, and misc categories) In game terms, they use SP instead of fatigue, and are leveled from 1~8 just like magic. Also like magic and shaping, they're trainable skills. To our apprentices only have lv 1~4 disciplines in my fic.

PHYSICS DIFFERENCES FROM THE GAMES

--Electrical Damage: This is a separate subtype in the Energy/Magic/Essence category. Due to the penetrating nature of electricity, Armor bonus to energy resistance does not count-- only the bonus from equipment (e.g. coated cloak) and luck. This same rule would apply to microwaves, though I know of no example in G3 where such an attack is used (I could see the A4 Ruby Pylons shooting microwave beams)

--Missile Attacks: Some significant differences. For one thing, Guardians do not rely on missile weapons like they do in the games unless either fighting solo or solely with other Guardians. More significantly, the hit-rates for missile attacks are different-- they're lower, and most can be parried. Distance from the target also has a more significant effect on hit rate. Thorns are not difficult for a character with high levels of parry + Dex to parry (with a shield). Dodging thorn attacks is possible solely by close observation of the opponent's movements, + enough knowledge in the way that the human body moves (or at least how it moves when firing a thorn) and a high enough DEX + Quick Action rank. Humans are not actually fast enough to dodge the thorn itself-- instead, careful timing allows the character to move out of the line of fire just before or as the baton-wielder launches the thorn.

In addition, a few additional elemental attacks are parryable than in the game-- namely firebolt and breath attacks. (Burning Spray and Searer still aren't parryable due to the acid element) With the exception of Lightning Strike, multi-target elemental attacks still cannot be parried.

--Parrying: This can be done with either a weapon or a shield. As with the newer SS games, a shield provides a +5% bonus. Bucklers and armguards (none of which are in the Geneforge games) do not. Broadswords provide a +1 bonus to parry, and polearms +2.

--Polearms: They exist. Based on Str + Melee weapons. Agents start with 1 level in Polearms (wilderness survival related) as do Shapers (w. staves). Guardians begin with 2 ranks. Quick Action isn't as effective with Polearms, esp. spears and pikes (halberds, glaives, and staves are a different story, but QA is only half as effective) As in the Ultima series, the warrior can attack an opponent 1 square away or through a window with a polearm.

--Shades: The attacker must channel a small amount of essence into their weapon for their physical attack to affect a shade. (Come on guys, shades are insubstantial entities. It's doubtful that you can simply punch a shade in the face) Oh, they can also move through walls and floors, unless they are within a building with a magic seal on its wall or door (this comes into play at the start of my fic) Spells can still affect a shade.

--Spellcasting: Four significant differences. First of all, intoning and casting a spell requires concentration-- so the caster must have enough self-discipline to cast the spell in spite of physical pain/discomfort and distractions. The next two are far more significant and result in vastly different battle tactics from the games. 2.)-- casting attack spells at point-blank range is very dangerous. If the caster is too close, then they are likely to be damaged by the explosive blast from spells like Firebolt and Ice Spray. Lightning Strike (see new abilities below) risks the electrical arc jumping to the caster. In the case of Burning Spray and Searer, there is a significant risk of splashback. Because of this, spellslingers need to keep some distance (1 or 2 spaces in game terms) from the target. 3.) and most significant, opponent attacks interfere with spellcasting. In game terms, an adjacent enemy will slow the caster in much the same way that it would slow movement. In addition, an attack on said character-- regardless of whether it hits or misses, will cancel their turn if they haven't cast the spell already. 4.) Finally, spellcasting requires a free hand. Because of this and their bulkiness, Agents rarely wear shields until/unless they get their hands on an Essence Aegis, Agent's Shelter, or Quicksilver Bulwark, all of which are exceptions to the rule. Spellcasting IS still possible with a small buckler or armguard, but such equipment is useless without considerable ranks in Parry, plus they are too small to block natural weapon attacks (e.g. claws, bites) from large creatures or spell/elemental attacks. Their small size also means that they provide no armor or reduced damage bonus-- they either block the entire attack or don't. Thus, Agents typically forego shields and instead focus on Dex and Luck to boost their dodge% Guardians, alone, can overcome this handicap to blessing and healing magic provided they equip a shield with a reflective surface (this can include wooden or carapace shields with a large gem or stud in the middle)

--Stealth: This is a hidden stat. There are additional rules from G4/5 that restrict it. First of all, reflective surfaces (e.g. metal). Second, metal armor (save that with the silence ability) excepting helmets. Because of this in addition to their preference for agility, Agents never wear metal armor excepting chain mails or leggings with the "Silent" ability or augmentation (as if it wasn't already overpowered in G3, the Crystal-Woven Shroud comes with the silent ability built-in )

--Class Differences: Due to the above, the gap between class differences is much wider in my fic than in the games. Agents typically reserve melee attacks only for emergencies or back-stabbing/sneak attacks, due to the disruption the disruption that close-quarters combat causes to spellcasting, the lack of shields, and the lack of armor. Instead, they focus on upping their dodge% and Missile Weapon skill level. Guardians' role as ranged attackers is also de-emphasized. Partly due to their lower DEX compared to Agents, and largely due to the next reason. They typically prefer javelins to batons, wands, and gems because they can apply their strength to javelin attacks.

The role of Guardians is thus emphasized even more-- they fight in the front lines, keeping the melee combatants from reaching the Agents and Shapers who fight in the back lines. In turn, Agents support Guardians with cover-fire while Shapers support them by sending their creations to fight by their side (or provide cover-fire)

So in my fic, while the non-battle formation of the party is identical to the default one in the game (Esther in front with the other two behind), when they engage in combat, Esther and Alwan switch places while in the same round, Esther and Greta cast War Blessing and Protection, respectively. Then the three spread out to form a delta pattern as soon as Esther casts Haste on Alwan, who then either waits for their enemies to reach him, or charges the enemy party to keep them away from the girls, who attack from a distance with batons and spells (prioritizing ranged attackers first) I should mention that the girls both have a mere 4 endurance and 58 HP, while Alwan has 10 endurance (also 8 strength-- seems like his endurance should be the main stat considering what happened to him bet. G4 and 5) and something like 160 HP-- plus the girls aren't wearing any armor or shields. Unlike in the SS games, where you want to haste your buffer first, in my fic, the buffer wants to haste their melee fighter first so that he can keep the enemies away from her, thus allowing her to focus unhindered on her spells.

It's absolute crap for a weapon, but it's still useful for one of your spellcasters though, as it retains its elemental resistances.

*Facepalms* Of course... For some reason, I was given the impression by the dialogue that Rone was a Vahnatai...

Oh, another thing-- can we please have a different text when Alwan reaches 0 HP? Fleeing in terror from severe injuries works for Greta, but not for Alwan, it just doesn't fit his character. IMO it would be better to have a text read something like "Alwan collapses from his grievous wounds. Take him back to the school (or Bulwark Inn) to get him treated for his injuries"

Yeah, just a nickpick I've always had.

Oh, one other nitpick-- where do Alwan and Greta sleep at the Bulwark Inn? We're told that there are no rooms, and we see them near the entrance roasting marshmallows together. What, do they both sleep in the storage room? (I'd think they would at least want separate rooms, and I'm sure that whatever the setup, that Alwan is going to whine that he isn't being treated like a Shaper)

Neither FAQ tells you where you have to go to fine Rone. I looked everywhere around Fort Saffron, everything between Fort Saffron and the Spire Fortress Gate, and in the Castle, nothing. I have the quest from Starrus. Did you say Fort Avernum? No Vahnatai there, either, and I did speak to the one at the Castle, too.

So what am I doing wrong?

Where is Rone? Nowhere on these forums or the walkthroughs does it tell me where he is.

I have the Jade Halberd, and I think it's pretty good. It would still be nice to have a good polearm that curses, though.

I've looked everywhere on the webz and this board. It's voted as best polearm in the game, but nobody gives its location.

i mean, eggs are a food item available in some places in the new avernum trilogy, so presumably at least some people have, it just doesn't explicitly come up in-game

unless they're lizard eggs

That's what I always assumed. Esp since... don't you find eggs in some of the lizard nests? Granted, I think you do in Avadon 2 as well.

Why is titanium poisonous in your pack? To me that makes no sense

I thought it was uranium... Titanium would be even better though, because of its light weight and deflective properties (not only do you get better armor for less encumbrance, but it provides some fire/ice/energy resistance as well! Esp. energy resistance

Okay, this is a long post.

First off, some of the quests I came up with:

--Repair the School quest tree. Starts as soon as you return from the South End outpost. You can end up trapped out of the quest tree if you don't finish X number of quests before leaving for the next island, or if you join the rebels. All of the quests are available by the time you reach the end of Dhonal Isle.

--First quest is "Stabilize the School", which is a simple fetch quest. You need to gather 10 boards, 5 hatchets, 5 saws, and maybe like 5 rope (in the original G3, I believe you can find these just in the South End and E. side of the Captured Bridge, alone.)

--Second quest is to fetch the blueprints of the school. Unfortunately, they're on the top floor, which the students sealed off to keep the rogue creations/worms/crawlers/rats inside. Only part of the top floor is accessible. If this quest is not finished before you enter Harmony Isle, then you get locked out of the quest tree, but you're unlikely to miss it since you still get the quest during a cut scene if you didn't get it by talking to the students. Finishing the quest makes some additional non-essential areas accessible after you speak to Commander Hevvig (or when you leave and return after the funeral procession.

--You get several quests after that which become available at different points in the game up to the end of Dhonal Isle. Most are either fetch quests (mostly for boards and stone blocks, which actually have a use in this game, hooray! And some tools-- mainly rope, hammers, and a few pickaxes, saws, clay bricks, and hatchets.) or "clear out the newly available section of the top floor" quests.

--Healing Supplies Quest Tree

Available as soon as you defeat the Battle Alpha. Many of the students are injured and need you to go on fetch quests to bring extra supplies. Much shorter quest tree than the school repair one.

--First quest requires you bring x number of bandages, sticks, and healing pods.

--Next one requires you bring like-- 10 or 20 pieces of food (20 total of any type of food) and 5 sacks of flour or something like that.

--Next one requires more healing pods and some curing pods, along with a few essence pods.

--Eventually you'll get a quest that requires you bring some dried herbs, saltweed, and wiry moss.

--Bring News Quest Tree

Some are quests and some are just dialogue.

--Not a quest, but as soon as you return to the school, you can tell the students about Litalia.

--Quest to see what the situation is on the island-- you can finish it as soon as you enter either the Captured Bridge of the Eastern Road and get the dialogue about the rogues.

--Quest to clear the way to Fort Kentia so that the students can go home. You can finish it as soon as you talk Hevvig. You have to break the news about the quarantine to the students.

--Once you clear out the mines (or convince Hevvig to give you the boat), you can tell the students that you're leaving the island. You'll get the quest to report to them the condition of Harmony Isle.

Not sure if this would be a cut scene, quest, or if it would happen at the beginning while you're escaping from the school, but obviously the creation holding cells in the arboretum region would be compromised, and the rogue/unstable creations therein escape. If it's a cut-scene, then it would happen if you enter the Arboretum zone after telling the students about Litalia. If it's during the escape from the school, however (also a likely scenario), then it might be a cut scene once you tell Alwan that you received permission from Mind Hrrol (which means that it is avoidable)

On a similar note, you might get extra experience from clearing the exit to the school based on the number of students who survive.

The cast I've come up with (obviously you would need like-- 4 zones to prevent lag-- should be four anyhow-- The main floor, the basement, the top floor, and the pier/arboretums/creation holding cells (that outdoor area with the four sheds in the opening picture) I mean come on, there aren't enough students in the original-- what, we have like-- 1 student per teacher? Yeah, right. They couldn't all have gotten killed or fled. Also bear in mind that I REALLY want to see the ability to choose gender in the remakes.

--De-facto leader A: A female guardian. Same year as Alwan, and shared many of the same classes with him. She doesn't get along with him very well early in the game because she views him as a reckless klutz. Provides the battle-related decisions and morale to the group, also in charge of the "law enforcement". Usually found in the entrance hall near the courtyard.

--De-facto leader B: A male agent, dark purple (palette ---) Tries to unify the group and keep the peace. More articulate than the female guardian, sometimes helps her with speeches beforehand. Gets along with Alwan for the most part, but sometimes scolds him for the inability to think for himself. Usually found at the intersection outside the arboretums.

--Male Guardian A: Think Alwan's personality on steroids. A hothead with a serious superiority complex. Divisive towards you, the outsider guards and Greta, tends to take his frustrations out on others, largely because he is injured and thus can't go out and fight the rogues like he wants to. He is jealous of Alwan because he can. Oh, and it doesn't help that there is some bad blood between him and Alwan (something petty, like-- a tournament where they were equally matched a couple years ago, which concluded with Alwan winning due to some asinine technicality. Alwan doesn't consider it to have been a win on his part, either, but this guy has a serious chip on his shoulder about it.)

--Male Guardian B: Meh, haven't thought up his personality yet. He's probably the one who likes to tease people sometimes derisively, sometimes playfully-- makes fun of Alwan's big nose and Greta's "manly brows". Pisses your companions off at one point by playfully joking that Alwan and Greta are a couple. Usually found in the entrance hall or courtyard, guarding the graves of your teachers.

--"Sick Guardian": Always in the infirmiry. Crawler wound that is badly infected. Eventually dies when it turns out that he was parasitized-- possibly culminates in a gory cut-scene where the worms come out of him and attack the students. Or if Jeff decides that's too gory, then a passing mention and new temporary grave site in the courtyard.

--Female Agent A: A bit on the cold side; doesn't get along with you or Greta. Her expertise on animals and creations (their behavior and hunting them, that is) is unmatched. Also takes frustrations out on others. Usually found outside the arboretum or on the remaining part of the second floor.

--Female Agent B: Most neutrally aligned student in the group, somewhat amicable towards Greta. Always found near the teachers' bodies *courtyard once they have been buried* Injured.

--Male Shaper A: The healer of the group. Being an apprentice, his abilities are still quite limited.

--Male Shaper B: A mechanical engineer, and rather humble for a shaper. Vouches for the structural engineer, and they soon become friends. Injured.

--Guard A: A structural engineer. He is in charge of stabilizing and repairing the school. He is very assertive for an outsider when it comes to decisions regarding this-- though out of loyalty rather than arrogance (these are students, and some of them let their arrogance cloud their judgment. He would never disobey an order from a full shaper. His insistence in taking charge of the stabilization and repair of the building is due in part because he is fairly certain that it is the decision that the teachers would have made.)

Then there are also numerous stock characters-- mostly serviles and guards, but 2-3 students of each class as well.

Probably going to be some serious lag in this area. The school would probably have to be divided up into four parts.

First floor would still be a nightmare though, as it would include the infirmary, Mind Hrrol, kitchen, vat room, and courtyard, which is were most of the majority of the characters are going to be. Perhaps the teachers' rooms should be on the second floor-- yes, that sounds good, though it won't do anything for the lag.

Luckily, most of the NPCs aren't present until after you defeat the Battle Alpha in the courtyard or leave and return.)

Some of the dialogues:

--The one mentioned in my earlier post about the graphic description of your slain teachers.

--If you return after leaving/being visited by Litalia at the South End, their bodies are replaced by an equal number of bloody tarps. If Greta is with you, she will ask a nearby guard which is the body of her favorite teacher (the kind female shaper). Greta, being as dangerously curious as she is, lifts the tarp. "The sight absolutely horrifies her. _____ suffered such severe injuries to her face that it is no longer recognizable. Greta leaps back, screaming. She huddles against the wall, crying hysterically. While you feel her pain, this is not an acceptable reaction for a shaper to make in public. Alwan clearly wants to chide her for this, but he decides to keep his mouth. Instead, he simply shakes his head in disgust."

--Short cut-scene dialogue if you bring Greta where they take their frustrations out on her a bit, and a couple of the students insult both you and Alwan. (the PC and Alwan aren't particularly popular with the students either. Alwan to a far lesser degree than you and Greta-- the students don't trust you because you were always studying/cramming and rarely around) Alwan and Guardian A nearly get into a physical altercation when he calls the two of you traitors for travelling with Greta.

--Most of the students will be unfriendly if your alignment leans toward rebel, but it probably won't affect the quests you can get.

--You can tell some of the students that you completed the training hall.

Then of course there's the powerful/emotional funeral procession. I even thought up part of the dialogue (remember what I said earlier about my runaway imagination? )

It occurs when you enter the courtyard on your way to give Mind Hrrol your report after speaking to Commander Hevvig. Fittingly, it's raining when you enter the courtyard, and most of the students along with some of the guards and serviles are all gathered there. There are now temporary graves (grave sprite w. wooden markers) in the upper right corner (fallen students) and at the center of the courtyard, where everyone is gathered around. One of the guards tells you that you're just in time for the funeral procession.

Some dialogue I imagined up for the funeral:

"The rain, perhaps, is a fitting addition to the somber atmosphere. You think you can hear a few of the students sniffling over the sound of the pouring rain."

some of the lines during the eulogy:

"As a shaper, the details of your teachers' murders infuriate you. But, you can't help but wonder if your indignation goes beyond even that of a Shaper. Your teachers risked-- no, sacrificed themselves to protect you and your fellow students. For this, they were rewarded with painful deaths, and their bodies fed upon by rogues and giant rats. They deserved better than this.

Then you think about Master Hoge. He abandoned your teachers to their horrible fate. He did nothing to protect his students, which was his duty as a teacher. To add insult to injury, he broke Shaper law by abandoning one of his own creations at Fort Kentia.

Finally you think back to Litalia. [Edit: I messed up on this line, I'll have to think of something else infuriating for the PC to think about regarding her]

If Alwan and Greta are with you, then you get these lines respectively:

"(name of male agent) begins a funerary speech. The guardians, including Alwan, remove their helmets to show their respect, while the Agents and Shapers pull back their hoods. For the first time, you see Alwan's entire face and his hair. (insert first three lines of the eulogy-- haven't thought them up beyond that the male agent states that the speech is a combined work between him and many of the other students) Several of the students, and even a guard or two, begin to cry."

then a bit later:

"As (name of male agent) continues the Eulogy, you look to your left at Alwan. Because of the rain, you can't tell if he is shedding tears or not, though he looks quite upset-- and very, very angry.

You look to your right at Greta. She is sobbing. She is clearly trying to keep her volume low, but the feedback effect from the cries of the students and the serviles is making this difficult."

Then when the procession wraps up:

"As the funeral procession wraps up, several of the students approach the graves. (insert name of the healer Shaper) places (insert name of one of the Shaper teachers)'s cane at the base of his grave marker. (insert name of one of the two non-stock male guardians) rests (insert name of the Guardian teacher)'s sword against his grave marker. Several of the students place flowers on the graves. (insert name of the kind female shaper)'s grave receives the most by far.

Greta looks ashamed about something. (insert name of the female Agent who gets along with Greta) smiles ands removes three of the flowers from her boquet. She offers three of them to Greta. Greta is clearly touched, and thanks her. They approach (insert name of kind female shaper)'s grave together and place the flowers there."

The long cut scene concludes with you and many of the students gathering in one of the rooms adjacent to the courtyard. As usual, there is infighting, with Greta being the occasional scapegoat. Also at this point, you will tell them about the quarantine thus completing the "Clear Path to Kentia" quest. The devastating news only worsens the infighting. Eventually, either you (if your leadership is adequate) or the female Guardian manage to break up the arguing, and for the first time, the students become united. They decide to work together to repair the school.

At this point you'll get the blueprint quest if you haven't gotten (or finished) it before. The school will be stabilized and rubble removed from paths to the key areas regardless of whether you finished said quest or not (the only difference is that you don't get experience for the "Stabilize School" quest upon your return from Hvvig)

That's how I picture all of that in the remake, anyway.

Hmm... there are some odd cases in item drops (an apparently hard-coded low-chance Girdle of Might drop from a particular Terror Vlish in G3, for example, that I found reference to only in an obscure thread here), and I suppose you're right

Yes, indeed-- the monsters (minus roamers) in the Roamer Marsh in G3 come to mind.

And, actually, that sort of info could be more important if the Geneforge remake follows recent convention and doesn't show you enemy HP when you right-click them

Most definitely. There would have to be some pages in the encyclopedia that explain level-based gains though-- possibly a section that talks about creations. (e.g. the monster encyclopedia also has a section in the front that discusses in-depth how a creation gains levels, along with some stuff about monster types-- e.g. that mind-affecting spells don't work on golems, fungi, or shades because they don't have minds, and that discipline wands only work on creations, with a distinction made between creations and augmented animals i.e. rats and crawlers.)

So what you'd end up with are separate entries for creations and monsters (the vanilla monsters without a "rogue" before the name don't drop items), with the Creation one including "Base Fyora" "Base Cryoa" for the fyora category and the monster encyclopedia starting with "Fyora Type" which gives the level-based gains. Then it would be followed by entries like "Base Rogue Fyora" "Base Rogue Cryoa" "Charged Fyora" "Pit Bred Cryoa" etc. for the Fyora category. Some entries for the creature would read like the Itemchars.txt in that you'd see "Base HP" "Base Level" etc.

I am not sure how Jeff would be able to code some of the entries for monsters whose drops or stats are in the hard code, such as the Swamp Thahd of the Roamer Marsh in G3.

I just would rather not see only technical data.

Hmmm.... I was thinking only technical data, but now that you mention it, I agree. I think, for instance, that entries like "preferred habitat" should be listed (roamers obviously would be "wetland forest" and "wetland prarie", for instance-- climate would be listed with it, but I don't remember if roamers are found in tropical swamps or not. Other creatures wouldn't have a preference and probably just have "any" in the entry. Giant Rats are definitely "any non-arctic, with preference for refuse piles")

Maybe preferred foods would be listed as well. Most would be "carnivore", with some saying "Carnivore, with a preference for ____" (I can picture Vlish favoring brains) while rats would be "Scavenger and Miscellaneous", and roamers would be "carnivore and scavenger". I would imagine that Thahds and Alphas would be omnivores, as it looks like they were created using ape/chimp stock. Serviles are obviously omnivores.

BTW, just realized another inconsistency. So the captured Shapers at Gull Isle have been imprisoned for weeks at minimum. You are told that they can barely walk. However, Agatha teleports them all either straight to The Spire, or somewhere else only to raid the town a day or two later. Whichever the case, when you return to the Spire, you learn that Agatha and the weakened Guardians and Agents had no trouble wiping out all of the servile warriors.

Ooh, another thing I would LOVE to see: Optional quest to repair the school!! Actually, I know it would be Jeff's job to do the character creation and dialogue, but I have a vivid imagination that doesn't have an on or off switch. I will cover that in my next post.

I really liked in Avadon how there would be red arrows indicating distant enemies. I'd like to see that again (and maybe also in the remakes), possibly even linked to a skill (e.g. Nature/Cave Lore in the Avernums)

I seriously want/beg Jeff to bring back the ability to close doors during combat. Did I ever exploit it? Yeah, once in awhile, though I overwhelmingly used it to regroup when my party needed healing and/or rebuffing. In G3, it wasn't foolproof, either-- ray attacks could go through walls O_o so you could still get debuffed and dazed/charmed by some opponents. Man, I can't count the number of times that I ran 2/3rds of the way across the Demon's Pit to slam the door behind me and bask in the healing pools in G2. Sometimes, I didn't make it >_> At the very least let us keep it in the Geneforge remakes, since it's a lot harder to exploit in those games (excepting maybe a G3 remake if Alwan and Greta become full characters rather than creations...) At the very least let us have a skill or stat (Dex?) that lets us close the doors provided monsters aren't within X number of spaces per x number of skill levels (with a maximum cap of like 3 spaces or something)

<b>However, I think we can all agree on THESE Hotkey-based points however:</b>

--Keep the recent trend of allowing us to choose the gender of each character class.

--Either keep the hotkeys consistent in all games in the near AND distant future---- <b>OR</b> allow us to customize hotkeys OH YEAH YEEEARRRGH!!! /deanscream

--Allow us to change whether arrow keys are for movement or scrolling in the options/preferences menu like it is in some of the newer games

Those are all I can think of right this moment.

Oh, and can we please be able to sell more mundane stackable items again? I mean I have a difficult time believing that nobody will by 100 sheets of papyrus or 20 bottles of ale... Actually, now that I think about it, wine and ale being non-resaleable is pretty unrealistic. If a dealer can easily sell them to minors, college students, and hobos IRL, then I fail to see why you can't sell them in a fictional world where people are depressed over the fact that monsters are killing them, destroying their crops, and bringing a halt to sea travel...

I would think that blankets would be a saleable good as well (though not for very much money)-- they were popular trade items prior to the 20th century. Should be stackable, too, along with towels. Just sayin'.

It occured to me, however, that in case these kind of enhancements were possible, how would they affect the whole party? For example if you had two wizards, would the spell enhancement affect both wizards' spellcasting or could these kind of spell-tweaks be done on an individual basis?

They would be trainable like other disciplines. So the character needs the requisite level of spellcraft + 1 or more ranks in the discipline.

Another cool idea might be that instead of using a fixed statistic (either strength or dexterity), the game should check which is higher and use that for the damage calculation.

Seems like a scripting nightmare.

I wonder if it might be a good idea for magical attacks to be only parryable with shields? When I think about a blazing arrow of fire directed at me or my companion, I cannot imagine I could achieve much if I was wielding anything but a shield in one of my arms.

That was the idea visual-wise, though I don't know if Jeff could implement that script or not.

Oh, actually come to think of it, Bull Rush probably isn't overpowered at all. It inflicts probably 50 or 60% more damage in addition to knockback on any opponents in your path, and not get slowed by opponents, but the downsides are that 1. You can only move in a straight line (diagonally, horizontally, etc.) and 2. You can only use it if you haven't moved a single square. You can choose not to use your full movement of squares, but it would probably have the an additional drawback of ending your round, anyway,

I originally toyed with a fourth discipline category that involved misc skills, but on second thought I think it would be better to have a class-based category with only 4 levels instead of 8-- again would be trainable skills, thus would depend on trainers, books, or canisters. The energy conversion spell would be Agent-only, as would the SP transfer. Agents also get a level 4 ability to close doors when an enemy is visible or during combat provided they're not within a certain number of spaces (higher ranks allow for more spaces like every 2 or 3 levels, and the skill is Dex-based) It can also be used to take a full round to change armor during battle.

Guardians get some pretty nifty abilities as well-- I've come up with three for them, all Leadership-based, and obviously inspired by the Avadon series.

Guardian's Resolve (Lv 2 ability-- (Heal a small amount of HP + remove stunning, slow, immobilization, and entanglement on self)

Howl of Terror (lv 4 ability-- Similar to the Terror spell)

Rallying Cry: (Lv 6 ability-- Removes one ailment per level of Leadership/Discipline -5 to all allies from one or more of these, in the following order: Stunned, Dazed, Terror, Charmed, Entangled, Slowed, Immobilized + casts Mental Barrier and War Blessing.)

I don't know if G4 or 5 have a means to remove slow/entanglement/immobilization, but in G1-3 Guardian's Resolve and Rallying Cry would give the Guardian an advantage over other classes in that he/she (hey, man, we need to be able to choose our gender in the remakes ) is the only class who can remove those status effects.

Only one I've come up with for Shapers is "Confer Resistance", which changes resistances (but NOT Armor) of his/her creations to that of the Shaper's. Which of course is a real mixed bag, esp. since it includes stun resistance-- which creations often have more of. Great for damage zones, though. I can picture wizards or priests in the other series having this as well-- great for conferring mental resistance and probably elemental resistance, bad for stun and probably poison resistance except in Avadon for the latter (at high levels, that is) Obviously for the Avernums you'd want to at least get Pathfinder and some Hardiness for your casters, and the inertial shield (or was it null shield?) would be handy for this until you get a magic-enhancing shield late in the game. This would actually be a lot more useful in Avernum and Avadon than in Geneforge, since the lattermost doesn't have a skill that greatly enhances all or 3~+ resistances, on top of the fact that some creations (esp. the tier 4 and 5 ones) have 90 to 100% resistance for one or more types, and the Shaper is unlikely to get all of them to 100%.

That was actually something I came up with for a spell-based discipline for the Geneforge remakes, which requires a certain level of spellcraft to be able to learn. It costs extra sp and EP on top of the spell you want to cast. A melee discipline I came up with was one that converts a certain amount of phys damage to fire/etc. damage-- in order to use it, you need to have either the flaming blade or an augmentation crystal attached to the weapon-- best part is that a golden crystal allows you to choose from any of them (fire, cold, energy, acid, or poison) With a runed amethyst you can choose from either acid or poison-- the damage is primary rather than secondary (e.g. the target takes x amount of acid or poison damage rather than being covered in acid or poison) (how it would work is that from the melee discipline menu, you select the ability, then another special menu comes up, with non-eligible types greyed out.) This was all based on Geneforge remake disciplines I came up with in the "things you'd like to see in the remakes" but never got to creating a separate topic for yet because I haven't brainstormed enough to be pleased with/laziness. (What I came up with was that the disciplines work just like spells, save that with two or three exceptions, they don't use EP. They use SP instead, and generally less than spells-- of course, the only problem is that this creates a bit of a balance issue since Agents have way more SP and have moderate combat skills. Also like spells, you have to train in the disciplines in order to use them, AND you must have the necessary ranks of the needed skill-- the disciplines are split into 3 categories-- melee, missile, and QA-- QA disciplines excepting Dagger Dance and Blinding Slash can be used for both melee and missile attacks.)

A few of the other more useful ones I came up with:

Impaling Pin: bit overpowered possibly, intentionally-- extra damage to the target plus possible reduced-damage cleave. Also, likely to stun, small chance of immobilizing.

Farshot: Lv 2 or 3 missile discipline; Adds two extra spaces to missile attack (but not spell) range. In G1~3, most missile weapon attacks and battle spells have a range of 8-- Farshot ups it to 10 for javelins/batons/wands/gems. Downside, however, is that the penalties to hit and damage are even greater than those from 6 to 8 spaces. However, good news is that higher skill/level ranks reduce the distance penalty, not only for the farshot 9-10 spaces, but for the regular 6-8 spaces penalty as well! So basically this discipline is not-so-useful when you first get it, but becomes more useful/powerful if you invest a considerable amount into missile weapons/Dex.

Powerful Throw: Low-SP Lv 1 discipline that makes standard javelin attack strength rather than dex based. Intended for Guardians, obviously. Downside, of course, is that you can't combine this with Farshot or other missile disciplines.

Blinding Slash: Lv 2 QA discipline; standard attack that uses Dex instead of Str.

Dagger Dance: Melee attack on all adjacent enemies-- uses Dex instead of Str; intended for Agents. Lv 4 discipline.

Bull Rush: Lv 4-- overpowered but expensive discipline (by G3 terms, something like 15 or 20 SP, which is quite a lot for a Guardian) Full movement in a straight line past opponents without being slowed by them, (or by G3 and earlier game terms, move a full 8 spaces and attack opponent within that range) + inflicts a good bit of damage to an opponent within said straight line + knockback. Tactical move good for when surrounded by enemies or when you need to drive an enemy away from a weaker ally. Again, you can only move in a straight line, including diagonally.

Whirlwind Blade: Same as the Avernum and Avadon move, save that it uses Str instead of Dex. For the unfamiliar, it inflicts standard attack damage on all opponents within 2 spaces of the user. Avernum/Avadon version to my understanding is based on Melee Weapons and Dex, though. Probably lv 7 or 8 discipline.

It would also be cool if you could parry attacks on nearby allies (or behind you in the case of missile attacks) standing within two spaces/squares of you-- or in the case of missile attacks, the missile passes you by within two spaces-- obviously, it has to be an attack that can be parried. Only single-target missile attacks/spells can be parried in this way, however, regardless on whether or not said attack is parry-able or not. You can protect allies from multi-target melee attacks, though.)

Canister abuse appeared to do different things to different people -- for Hoge, it did bad things to his skin/hair/general appearance. For Litalia, it made her cold and distant/detached and glowy... although her progression through canister stuff is interesting, to say the least. Extreme canister abuse or bad canisters... I don't think the text states what it does to aging, but it does seem to warp physical features and cause that unearthly glow, as well as change demeanor.

The canisters always-- ALWAYS turn the person cold and near always give them a superiority complex (Litalia is the sole exception from G1-3) I have a theory that the remaining different mental effects are in fact, exacerbations of the user's existing behavioral traits. The text seems to hint that Hoge has always been a bit of a callous sociopath. The sole exception in G1~3 is Barazahl who goes from being a full egalitarian to acquiring a god-like complex.

G1 and 3 actually do give significant insight into the effects of a bad/rotted canister. Hoge we see the effects clearly-- his bones become seriously disfigured while his body withers away (hair and teeth fall out, emaciation, and skin becomes cracked, dry, and bleeding, later IIRC sloughing off in patches.) In G1 there are one or two bad canisters. If you use them, it burns your skin and the inside of your arm/body, along with badly poisoning you. Those obviously were only "bad" to a minor degree compared to what Hoge exposed himself to. I do not recall it ever mentioning that it aged or made Hoge look aged, but I don't always remember things correctly.

The bad canisters probably follow the same logic as SOME of the red essence pools-- that the organic components have rotted, which taints the essence. Or something to that effect-- I specifically remember the rotted organic component part, and combine this with the info we get in G3 that herbs are an essential component of all essence-based solutions such as pods, spores, healing/essence pools-- and of course, canisters.

Seems like the progatonists in all 5 games are pretty young-- so I don't think that the same protagonist could appear in a later title when several years or decades pass between each.

I agree about the balance problem. Which is why I said that spellcrafting should only be late into the game. It should also be limited-- e.g. maybe you can get an extra rank of 3 spells and one of say-- spellcraft plus priest spells or magery.

I do agree that the number of skills and talents should be kept to a minimum.

Keep watching the negative side effects because doctors rarely believe they are from the drugs.

That is absolutely not true. You can look at the symptoms listed on the bottle/pamphlet and bring them up with your psychiatrist the next time you see them. I have had little trouble getting input on them or convincing them (in some cases) that it might be a listed side-effect, unless it's one that isn't always listed (such as amphetamines -- dexadrine, adderall, etc. having a diuretic effect)

In general counseling is the best option as long as you are getting good advice.

Only if the person is willing to change their problem behaviors. For example, Dialectic Behavioral Therapy probably wouldn't work for me because I am not willing to give up my paranoia-- it protects me, and people who don't have it are gullible.

That said, I've got enough symptoms to be sure that something is up. I've had a history of self-harm, suicidal ideation, weight issues, crippling apathy...

That sounds chronic depression right there, and you should see a psychiatrist about that. Those are all hallmark signs, including the weight loss which is probably due to bad eating habits.

I think society is probably sick more often than people; anorexia nervosa can only come about in a society obsessed with the equation of thinness with beauty.

Anorexia nervosa is different than most disorders. You really can't chalk anxiety disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia up to a screwed up society. The same cannot be said with eating disorders and body dysmorphic disorder (which BTW is one of the causes of eating disorders)

Most prescribers of psychopharmacological medications are not psychiatrists. They're overwhelmingly primary care doctors, and they have very varied background in psych, from rock-solid training to basically no training at all, and very short visits with which to make a diagnosis and prescribe treatment.

I believe you are referring to the use of antidepressants for physical disorders, primarily chronic pain. There has been some evidence, to my understanding, that this does have some benefit-- not because their pain is a result of depression, but because the effect of SSRIs on seratonin and dopamine seem to have some effect on pain, IIRC.

Euroclydon: I can understand that sort of guilt. However, there is no reason to feel guilty that your first post on these forums is in this thread.

Stealth would still be useful for raiding guarded warehouses without notice (well, guards stationed outside the warehouses that is) and sneaking past those monsters when you need to reach a safe place to heal and re-buff. It would be nice if in addition, it would allow the closing of doors during combat. I always hated that change because I have used doors since G2 to recover my HP/EP and rebuff when needed. I very rarely used it for the exploit purposes that Jeff banned it for. Besides the fact that at least in G3, it's not 100% effective because ray attacks can still get through the walls. Doesn't make sense, but I still like that some debuffs and mind-affecting attacks can get through walls/closed doors.

So many times I remember running 2/3rds of the way across the Demon's Pit in G2 to reach the room with the healing pools and closing it behind me, all the while being chased by rotghoroths and/or guardian spectres. Ah, the memories.

Yeah, almost all of the item interaction in Ultima 7 Black Gate was optional as I recall, which IMO is how it should be. I can't remember if that was the case in Serpent Isle or not, but it seems like I vaguely remember some mandatory stuff (ah, yes, now I recall one-- you had to make one of the magic reagents, which required damaging yourself to make each one. Seems like there was more than that, however)

All of the interaction I can remember-- I am sure there are many that I missed. Won't bother mentioning the stuff you can already do in SS games.

--Sitting in chairs

--Sleeping in beds

--Lighting and snuffing light sources (either carried or in the scene)

--In Ultima 5 you could break mirrors by attacking them.

--Talking to parrots

--Mixing flour (procured from sacks of flour) with water to make dough

--Kneading Dough

--Baking dough in the oven

--Dipping a bucket of water into a well to get a bucket of water

--Placing a bucket under a beer tap, then turning it on to fill a bucket with beer or ale. (with amusing results if you let it overflow or misplace the bucket before turning it on)

--Using grapes on the wine press to make... what was it, buckets of wine or bottles of wine? Can't remember.

--Changing Diapers (which you could then carry with you and use on an enemy *or townsperson * to inflict the fear status on them

--Throwing diapers in the hamper

--Making bolts of cloth on a loom

--Cutting cloth into bandages

--Playing musical instruments (not as interactive as it was in Ultimas 5 and 6 where you could enter keys to play a tune.)

--Rocking cribs

--Enchanting arrows

--Mining ore

--Making a potion in Skara Brae

--Forging the Black Rock Sword

--Throwing buckets of water, beer, ale, or blood on someone

--Pouring blood from a magic tree on a pentagram in order to revive a golem

--In Serpent Isle you could break down locked doors/open chests by attacking it enough times. Granted, you could bash down doors in the first Exile trilogy and Nethergate Res, as well... Only wooden ones, of course.

--In Ultima 5, you could insta-kill characters by attacking them while they're sleeping. Blackthorn is invincible, and hilariously, if you try to kill him in his sleep, you'll get a bloop sound and the text "missed!"

I also hate how in Crystal Souls you can't attack friendly characters, anymore-- I hope that is brought back.

That's not a new game, that's just a port.,.. Clickbait, indeed.

Also, is it safe to assume that the bit about difficulty levels is a joke? Or is he actually serious?

^^The point is that, like tool use, characters will have to dump skill points into something that doesn't have any combat or spellcasting uses. People complain about that enough as it is.