alhoon

No, but I don't think Tyallea would follow him. I do believe Nora or how the Guardian Lying Zackary the Deceiver saved would follow him to the end, if he bolted. She is a father-figure for her. Which seems to lead more credit to the "soft spot for those he sees as Children" narrative - that is not enough to save him. I will kill him. I actually do think he still has sympathies towards the Serviles! He is just thinking that sympathies or not, he should have stopped showing mercy OR that he should stop showing mercy to rogue serviles at this point. Zackary doesn't push hard against Medhab, he is afraid of Barzhal, terrified of the Council and the Takers but in the end, he throws his lot with the Shapers knowing he will be killed for his crimes. As for his view against war with the Shapers as hopeless... I think he doesn't want war with the Shapers! He -is- a Shaper. A bad Shaper, a criminal Shaper, but he views himself as part of the Shaper Empire (and thus, he is irredeemable in my eyes and must die - and yes, I still consider myself an Awakened! I am not a Taker!) Regardless, if Zackary was that true to his convictions, he would not have waited for you to clean his mess. He could have send Nora to the Council or one of the 12 Shapers he has locked behind his throne. I saw at least an Agent there and a bunch of Guardians. All of them Shapers. He could have told one of them to go inform the Council. But he doesn't. He tries to have you clean up first. Last I saw, Shaper was a fully trained, albeit old, Shaper. He has a bunch of Guardians. I didn't see an offer to put me under Guardian813 or Shaping a battle Beta to put under my control, essence free. Nooope. He wants me to clean up his mess for him, giving me a few trinkets here and there for my work. Those words make him appear far more sympathetic than he is in game! He is a pathetic worm that DESPITE KNOWING what he does is morally wrong, he lied for decades, perpetuated the slavery of Serviles in his lands, crimes against other Creations, didn't reign in Barzhal, on purpose kept his colony a failure perpetuating the poverty of the Common he deceived to follow him and the Serviles that he brought there. While he did have his conscience and is not insane, he is responsible for a lot of suffering. I cannot stress that enough: We are talking about the few redeeming qualities of Zackary, in a way that paints him in a far better light than he should be viewed at. Barzhal has the "I am mad" benefit of the doubt for his crimes. Zackary has not. For a decade Zackary was lying, deceiving and enabling the suffering of Creations under Barzhal and he did that first out of ambition and as years passed out of fear.

I don't mind him at all treating them like Commons. I mind that he changed his mind and wants to purge them all.

It is a kid Servile girl, an orphan and Lying Zackary the Deceiver was not just "kind to her", he was the Shaper that protected her and saved her and put her under his protection. Most Serviles that survived was useful in some way or another; not that girl. She was spared because Zackary saved her. And its not that her parents were useful so he wanted to warm up to them. No. She is an orphan. I cannot see any benefit from saving what's-her-name for Zackary aside of basic human decency. Lying Zackary the Deceiver has a couple of redeeming qualities, that in no way overshadow or even compare to the vast net of deception he set up or how pathetic and sniveling he is. He is not that far from the Awakened, which is understandable because Lying Zackary the deceiver is still the same Zackary that walked in Sucia all those years ago- he hasn't Shaped himself, so he is not mad. He had come to understand, in his horror, how much happened behind his back. He was too slow "to be afraid" and he had lost control of the mountains long before he realizes that he was not in control of the mountains, that the Awakened were not Common under the Shaper Empire but independent from him and his wishes. Regardless, I will kill him for the tons of lies he told me and for backtracking and throwing his lot with the Shapers. If Zackary was willing to join the Awakened against Barzhal and the Shaper Council, I would be willing to look the other way; he is not very useful for research himself but the tons of Shapers he has under his control are better.

Not really; it doesn't do big devastation that renders an area uninhabitable for years and hazardous for decades. The equivalent of a nuke is a spawner that makes rogues that can reproduce.

Yeap. From all of them, Taygen has it. And obviously, like the Wise Shaper he is, promoted for his genius and skill, what he does with this awesome power is: Create a plague that is extremely contagious and absolutely deadly to creations, hitting them at the most fundamental level. A complete genocide of anything, from Unbound and Shredbugs down to Ornks and Batons. Think of it like pressing the button and destroying all electronics in our world.

Why so? Taygen has those scrolls in his lab and it is not destroyed.

That. You would be very suboptinal to put say 30% / 70% of your points on missile /melee if you were melee as you wouldn't hit with missile except in weak enemies and you would be gimping your melee hit chance.

That's just covering the evidence in a very efficient way.

Haste for example, or the blast cones for drayks/Fyoras come to mind!

Anyone managed to kill Shanti? I loaded back right before I got out of the tunnel and tried it. She is probably too hard for a 6th level character but it should be doable for you pros, at least in normal difficulty. I managed to get her down to below half hp before she did something that did 70 hp to my already wounded char.

I saw "summon soul jar" but I didn't see anything aside of an Ur-Glaak.

What are the summoned soul jars? Also, if I am close to Teriel he uses some weird attack and deals a bunch of damage to me. But I will do what you suggest and I will revisit once I am 16 level. But I wanted that +1 essence mastery. I have killed the Bound One before finding out that quest, so I have to kill that guy now to get that sweet, sweet +1 essence mastery.

Infernal Teriel: I am 14 level, I have 2 drakons at level 20, 2 Drayks at level 19, 1 Fyora at level 18 and Xander at level 15 with boosted intelligence and spells (+2). I am playing on normal. Aspect of Chaos was a breeze. Teriel? Teriel cuts through half my party in the first round and heals for whatever minor damage I did to him. I presented the Baton. How on earth can I beat that dude? I am not even sure I can turn to easy and win.

What?!? Where did you learn that? Also... THAT is the kind of safeguard that the Shapers need. You try to make a Geneforge? you blow up. Not wait for an Agent to find you, survive and return to the Council.

I spoke with the Emissary about Tuldaric's Infernal. I was half-right. Tuldaric did not summon the Infernal. He found it and trapped it. Why he hasn't send it back? The Emissary doesn't know. Considering that Tuldaric is weeeell gone I am not sure Tuldaric even remembers why he didn't banish the Infernal in the first place. When I talk to him about the Infernal, he says stuff like "I will soon break its will" as if it is possible to "tame" an Infernal...

Not too powerful. At least, not powerful enough for me to wipe the floor with them. Also, the Takers had no issue with how powerful humans could be. They say so in GF4 and GF5. I think the main issue is that you don't have Danette anymore. Taygen, for all his evil, could perhaps make a better Geneforge. The ones the humans and even the Drakons made, are weaker. IIRC the GF4 geneforge didn't even need gloves. The one the Takers have in GF2 is also weaker than subsequent ones.

Not entirely true. Jarred and Shaila got a lot of mileage out of it; it is for game balance reasons only, I think, that the player gets just what he or she does. I would also point out that while "limited" in the sense you don't get a +8 to all stats it does give you actual Shaper knowledge; you can study books and all and do research. I.e. you are not like the Barzhite Can-Shapers or What's-his-name in 2nd island of GF3 that can do just the tricks the was Shaped to do.

SPOILERS FOR GENEFORGE 5!!!!

Keep in mind that this will affect the robes of every Shaper in the game.

Hyperion, to my understanding, speaks of something very different: Finish the quests like a normal person and then once you're an amazing level with quest-equipment and rewards, training and all, go all Litalia and purge everything on the mountains except Ghaldring.

Actually, there is Rook. The Shapers weren't as thorough as they thought. That said, their leader also assured me that they are people-loving explorers that love to learn languages and strange customs. Not conquerors. Nooope. I am pretty sure they dominated their own lands and continent with smiles and by learning languages. And they put Cannons on their ships that killed my poor boat-Drayk for cultural reasons. It is also clear their 18th level warriors got to that level of training, able to take probably an Alpha one-on-one, just by practice, not by experience. And they practiced the way some cultures practice their ceremonial fighting (and I include the Texans in that group, just so you know). They also have a strange custom in apparently, not telling where their main base is. Nothing sinister could ever come from that.

Actually, it is very common and quite popular; parties use it to get votes all the time. The French and the English, the entire Balkan area, the Middle East, the USA and the British Empire, the Natives and the Colonizing nations which is arguably the most relevant here. I didn't mean that; I meant they burned the books of magic they didn't like, forbid the practices, dismantled the social structures that propagated those practices, executed or defeated in battle leaders that didn't bend the knee and severely punished those that tried to continue them. You know... cultural genocide. To avoid rubbing salt on wounds as I don't know where everyone is from, and despite what you said blaming nations for what they did long ago is very easy and very popular, I will go with the Roman Empire and the Carthaginians. The Romans forbid the speaking of the Carthaginian language, burned the city to the ground and poisoned the wells, destroyed records and books in their language, and more or less did everything they could to eradicate the Phoenician heritage. The did go way further than the Shapers, considering that "forbade speaking the language" included cutting off the tongues of every Carthaginian they captured before turning them to slaves. But you can find more recent examples that are much closer to what the Shapers did, which I am not willing to bring up as some such practices were continued till 50 years ago. We are told that at least twice in GF2-I alone. Next time I see it I will put it here again. And yes, I understand that is probably a hyperbole and it is probably more complex... as far as GF2 goes. Because in GF3, in the 3rd island, Lord Rhaul's island, I forget the name, we have an entire school of Common magic - similar to the Magus complex but legal, where the headmaster is sweating and near-panic because you, an apprentice that have not yet been officially out of school, can turn down the entire school with a word. And the wording of that sentence is very similar to what I just said; I do remember the "with a word" part. But to get back to GF2-I, we are told that in a couple of cases. I'll grab it from the codex. Everything they do, is subject to approval. The rule is light but firm; that means, if Shapers do not approve, that something vanishes - whether it is a hierarchy, a guild, a company or, if we believe the wording, a city. I admit I don't think that Shapers would simply allow one of their own with a sore tooth to say "I need the land of City813 for my lab. Clear the grounds from houses and people within 2 weeks." but the local Shaper lord (not the Province boss, even a lower one) could very well say "We decided to put a fort / lab in the place where town1741 is because it is close to resources we need but distant enough in case things go bad; half the buildings would be commandeered by the Shapers and repurposed. The Common will be given reimbursement for their loss of property elsewhere, but they have to go elsewhere. Oh, I heard there is a nice guy called Shaper Zackary that promises his Drypeak Colony will succeed and is looking for people, in case you are interested. " You said it: They have a lot of agency. Not in how to punish people, but in what to do within the law. Including research. A Shaper has extreme leeway into what to research despite very constant reminders that their mistakes cause severe problems. The Shaper Law includes things like "Make your research facility underground." and "Be ready to seal it and run." and "If you mess up, you will be punished!!!!" What it very evidently and pointedly does not have is oversight. Zackary and Barzhal were allowed to do whatever the heck they pleased up there without oversight, and it was 10+ years till the Council decided to send one Agent to check. There are a ton of security laws and procedures to deal with the problems, but not an oversight committee to avoid the problems. In our research programs, we are sending reports every six months, but we also have deliverables and some oversight and if we fall behind there is an inspection. And our research is in mathematics not bioengineering. I bet you all the money in my pockets that big Pharma companies and the governments have inspectors, they don't just trust their research teams to follow the procedures. And a Pharma can do a lot of damage with a defective product but less than a Shaper. And I mean a mid-rank Shaper with a couple of assistants and an apprentice. The Shapers, in their arrogance fail in one of the most basic things of research: OVERSIGHT. A Shaper can put up a lab and start any research project within the Shaper Law and nobody would bother him or her. "I am making peaches with higher self life! And I take great care so that they won't be released till they are ready. " is perfectly acceptable as a "research project" and we are shown evidence that the Council won't even bother to look into what the guy is doing with the resources he commandeers from nearby farms and mines. Did he really took all necessary safety precautions and does he follow all necessary safety procedures so that warped peaches won't become an invasive species? Nobody cares to check. Is he making peaches with higher self life, or is he making Drakons? Nobody cares to check. If his mutated peaches escape his lab and become an invasive species, he will be severely punished. If he makes Drakons, he will be executed. There are very clear and well practiced and rehearsed safety procedures for the peaches to not escape. There are very strict laws to prohibit making of Drakons and controls and regulations so that the equipment necessary to make Drakons is controlled. But there is no oversight they are followed. The Shapers place too much faith on other Shapers. They place too much effort to make sure that the tiny few that become Shapers are loyal and too little in ensuring those that are Shapers don't make mistakes. A committee of 4-8 Shapers that periodically checks and evaluates a region's projects and the safety of their labs is not that hard. The Big Pharma companies manage. The various governments manage. The Shapers could manage too. And since Shapers are very loyal, those inspectors would be very hard to bribe. And since those inspectors are like Shanti, they are hard to kill too. BY SHAPERS! I doubt you will find many Drayks, Drakons or Gazers that would say that.

Well, I have one with Xander to get him to level 15 and fix his double-searer issue + a small quest to make him a little more powerful with spells. I plan to make one more where you convince Tuldaric to Zap one of your Drayks so that it can learn more magic, and then have the mages in the complex offer paths for the Drayk.

The reasons are obvious. It is an act of the Goddess Bu'Ug. The whims of this goddess are capricious. Sometimes she helps. Sometimes she hinders. In a thankfully few cases she completely crashes the world. But fear not! There is a remedy. You could email the other Divines that look over this world and do their best to undo the damage Bu'Ug is doing. The secret ritual you require to contact those divines includes sending an email to support@spiderwebsoftware.com

Intriguing...