G3 Melee Guardian

[Triumph]

Someone asked me about playing a melee Guardian in G3, and since there's doesn't appear to be any discussion of it in the Strategy Central (I found a reference but the thread doesn't seem to have survived), I thought I would share my limited experience here.

 

For a Guardian build, near the endgame I would recommend the following:

 

Basically, if you want to be a Guardian, DO NOT put point into Intelligence. Waste. Of. Time. For a guardian. More than likely, you also do not want to put any points into shaping skills, either.

 

What should you train?

 

Strength. Strength is very important. You probably want 12 or 14 by the end of the game.

 

Endurance. Eventually aim for that 10 or 12 level.

 

Melee. Again, you want a Lot. (12 or 14?)

 

Quick Actions. Lots of this too. (say, 14?)

 

Eventually get 10 Parry. But don't worry about training in this early. It's a helpful defensive skill, but weaker than it was in G2, so focus on pumping other more important stats first.

 

You'll probably want about 12 Leadership and 14 Mechanics. I don't recall the exact maximum numbers needed, but I always like being able to make the most of leadership/mechanics opportunities, and these numbers (especially when you add to them the boosts from charms and equipment) should be sufficient.

 

I ended up with about 10 Luck, too. Like Parry, it's a pleasant, supplementary defensive skill, but not an important one early on; wait until your key skills are up where you want them.

 

You will want to buy training (spend gold, not skill points, LOL!) to get two points of Blessing Magic so you can cast Essence Shield. You will also want to make sure your Healing Craft is high enough to cast Augmentation (you should not need to spend skill points to boost Healing Craft, except maybe one point at most; the game offers Healing Craft training as rewards or makes buyable with gold). These two spells (Augmentation and Essence Shield) basically buff your health, and last as long as you stay in one zone. They are VERY helpful. You should cast them both on yourself every single time you enter a new zone, pretty much. Of course you know Protection and War Blessing are also important in combat. Buying a couple points of Spellcraft is also a worthwhile use of your gold, making your healing and blessing spells just that much more effective. Don't burn skill points on magic skills, though.

 

So, your key skills early on are Strength, Melee, Quick Action. Those are your hit-and-kill-stuff skills. Eventually you'll want to invest the more defensive skills (Endurance, Parry, Luck, with Endurance the most important), but they aren't as high of a priority. And remember to buy training in Blessing Magic when you get the chance, and make extensive use of Augmentation and Essence Shield.

 

From what I learned from the great master of builds, the dearly departed Slarty, in G3 most (or was it all?) stats hit a sort of cap at 10, where the benefit diminishes by half after the tenth point. That's why I recommended stopping at 10 for some skills, and why I aim for an even number for skills I train above 10.

 

One optional thing that I did, and found helpful, but that I think is totally unnecessary: I once tried building up my Magic Shaping just enough to create a Vlish (as soon Vlish become available on Harmony Isle). I then kept that one Vlish (Squishy, I called it) with me all the way through the rest of the game; it leveled lots and grew quite sturdy and proved to be a helpful partner without my having used too many skill points or eating up essence I needed for blessing and healing spells.

 

Note that I only play on lower difficulties - I have no advice for Torment players.

 

Play smart, tactically. Make extensive use of buffing items (speed pods, etc.), do your best to lure away enemies one or two at a time and avoid getting swarmed, know when it's time to flee a zone and heal then come back.

 

I hope this is helpful.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Have you tried a missile guardian as well? Some of the weapons are quite powerful and you will not need to invest in quick action either, It seems to me that it actually might be better than a melee guardian, since it will be able to attack from a distance.

What (if any) will be the disadvantages of such a build?

[Triumph]

Oh, missile guardian is a fine build. Especially once you acquire a reaper baton - good times. I said nothing about a missile-focused guardian for two reasons: because I was asked specifically about melee, and because in the Geneforge 3 strategy central thread at top of the forum there are already multiple threads discussing the idea of the missile guardian (there are none for melee).

 

 

Edit: I'm storing the following info in this post for my own convenience. Once upon a time, I asked about the "10-cap" I heard about in Geneforge games. Here were the useful responses.

 

In the first four Geneforge games, some stats have a reduced effect after 10 points. From 10-20 points each point has only half its normal effect, and from 20-30 each point has only a third of its normal effect. This is true of nearly all stats in G1, but only of shaping stats in G2-G4. G5 doesn't have diminishing returns on stats in this way, although it still costs more skill points for every additional stat point.

 

It is a bit confusing. Some stats use the 10-cap, and some don't.

 

If a stat doesn't use the 10-cap, it gives the same effect for each new point, whether it's an extra die of damage, chance to parry, improved resistance, whatever.

 

If a stat does use the 10-cap, its effect increases at the following points:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 23, 26, 29

 

Basically, you need 2 points for a bonus after 10, and 3 points for a bonus after 20. Hence the "10-cap" because often, combining with naturally increasing skill pt costs in G2 and up, it becomes much less useful to buy more of that skill after you get to 10.

 

But, skills are treated differently in different games.

 

In G1, ALL skills use the 10-cap. Their skill point costs don't go up, though, so it's actually quite a cool system.

 

In G5, I believe that NO skills use the 10-cap. I am not 100% sure about this, but most at least do not.

 

In the games in between, it varies, with G2 and G3 applying more 10-caps and G4 fewer. I know Fire Shaping and the other shaping skills apply the 10-cap in every game except G5. I believe the same thing is true of Parry and Quick Action.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edit: Thuryl, there are DEFINITELY other 10-capped stats in G2-4.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Oops, should have checked that before.

[Death Knight]

One of the things I still dont understand about this is when I look at melee guardians endgame pictures, there are listings of dexterity at high amounts when its really supposed to be ignored for melee guardians. Is this just with items or should you put a few points into there. I only ask because dexterity in geneforge games other than 5, all have acid resistance with it and it can be annoying to get stuck with that.

[Triumph]

What are you talking about? Pictures of melee guardians in the endgame??? I don't know of any such thing for G3, and I would say ignore anything you saw that isn't for G3. A melee guardian doesn't need to invest in Dexterity.

[Death Knight]

No I was just talking about when people on the forums list their stats. I noticed sometimes that they have like 9 or 10 dexterity and I was just wondering if they put points in it. Thats all.

[The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben]

Let me reword that:

 

A Guardian and a Shaper would find little benefit from investing in Dexterity.

[Randomizer]

Some of the dexterity comes as quest results and canister.

[Death Knight]

 

This is just awesome. Im having an absolute blast with my guardian in gene forge 3. I did exactly as you said triumph and the game isn't excruciating anymore. I do have a question though, I am allowing my thadh to level up and am placing points only in strength and endurance for him with the same going for my guardian, strength and endurance. My question is is it possible to fight through the game with proper tactics on normal, a guardian and a thadh, or will it be too hard. I guess I could enhance my sword with fire enhancement for physical immunes?

[Randomizer]

It's easier to swap swords when you get ones that have other damage types. The bonus from an enhancement isn't a lot except for maybe acid.

[Triumph]

I don't think there's much of anything that is "immune" to physical damage. There's an Icy Sword, I believe, and Oozing (poison? or maybe acid?) Blade are very worthwhile, because somethings are more vulnerable to elemental damage (there's also a sword that purports to be fire-based but actually isn't, IIRC). I think once I found it, I mostly used the Oozing Sword.

 

So yeah, you should be find going along the way you are. I don't know if you can level / pump a low tier creation like a thahd enough to survive and / or be helpful all the way to the end, but it could be feasible.

[Death Knight]

I don't think there's much of anything that is "immune" to physical damage. There's an Icy Sword, I believe, and Oozing (poison? or maybe acid?) Blade are very worthwhile, because somethings are more vulnerable to elemental damage (there's also a sword that purports to be fire-based but actually isn't, IIRC). I think once I found it, I mostly used the Oozing Sword.

 

So yeah, you should be find going along the way you are. I don't know if you can level / pump a low tier creation like a thahd enough to survive and / or be helpful all the way to the end, but it could be feasible.

 

Actually Ive been reading the wikia for geneforge and it says that you can save a bit of essence by getting a low creature like Thadh and keeping it until the end. For the most part, Ive just been pumping strength and endurance on the thadh as there really is no reason to use dexterity as it will lvl up itself.