Self-Shaping and actual cloning

[alhoon]

Can Shapers actually Shape clones and simply don't do it, or they cannot Shape humans at all at their current level? What do you think? 

 

Pro the "able to clone, choose not to":

- They have healing which allows them to replace hearts. 

- They do clone Serviles and every other creation. 

- They can Shape alterations on themselves and others, with a couple of Shapers (that old Shaper in GF4 and Rawal in GF5) actually directly Shaping the protagonist (no cannister).

- I think there have been mentions of directly Shaping enemies to harm them, like using Healing to do harm <== like the corrupted healing pools do.   

 

The "not able to clone" :

- nobody mentions it in the games. 

- Shaping a Creation that is identical genetically to the "blueprint" Creation is not the same as shaping an identical copy of something that already exists. 

Edited April 28 by alhoon

[Superdeath25]

Considering humans have the ability to shape, it is likely forbidden.  Shaper law strictly prohibits making any creation that can shape

[alhoon]

22 minutes ago, Superdeath25 said:

Considering humans have the ability to shape, it is likely forbidden.  Shaper law strictly prohibits making any creation that can shape

Shaper Law prohibits that, and also prohibits what is considered unethical Shaping, like making diseases. However, I wonder whether Shapers can Shape humans into existence, not if they are allowed to. 

Edited April 29 by alhoon

[Superdeath25]

Yeah, they probably could

[Slariton]

Shaping a creation into existence from scratch is not the same thing as shaping an existing creation to augment or alter or heal it.

 

Also... humans aren't creations.

 

There is zero in the games to suggest they could do this, and it would be a gaping plot hole if they could.  Every other shaper rule gets broken over the course of the series.  This is just not a thing.

[alhoon]

12 minutes ago, Aoslare said:

Shaping a creation into existence from scratch is not the same thing as shaping an existing creation to augment or alter or heal it.

 

Also... humans aren't creations.

 

There is zero in the games to suggest they could do this, and it would be a gaping plot hole if they could.  Every other shaper rule gets broken over the course of the series.  This is just not a thing.

 

This is what I understand from your post: 

What you are basically saying is that Shapers could create Fyoras based on mutating Salamanders but could not actually Shaper Salamanders. Thus, while Shapers could create a human-like Creation by mutating humans and eventually creating something that could then be Shapable, but they would not be able to Shape Humans, or Salamanders (just Fyoras), or wolves (just Roamers) or Scorpions (just Clawbugs) or pigs (ornks). 

Since we don't see any trace of Humans-as-creations, then they probably are not possible because if they were someone would have done it, even if it was an abandoned century-old facility that the PC would react in horror of.  

Is my understanding over what you are saying correct? 

 

If it is, I would say that "we see zero evidence of this in 5 games"  is a quite compelling argument with a lot of merit but not definite. Even Serviles are rarely Shaped nowdays. And rules-breaking Shapers wouldn't create something as complex and weak as a human. They would go for Alphas or at the very least, warbred Serviles. 

What I mean is that Shaping humans is probably a taboo not worth breaking. Drayks, Canisters, the geneforge, teaching magic to Creations, Spawners... all those rule breaks have a beneficial purpose. Humans are probably not worth the effort, similar to how we are told Batons are usually bred not Shaped etc. 

Don't take me wrong, I don't mean to say "It probably is possible." far from it! 

I am saying "that it doesn't get mentioned in 5 games leaves some leeway although yeah, 95% Shapers can't do that. (And they also can't shape salamanders and non-mutated animals and plants ) " 

Edited April 29 by alhoon

[Slariton]

It doesn't get mentioned in five games and would create gaping plot holes if it were a thing.  You could just as well say "hey maybe shapers can fly."  The games never say they can't!

[alhoon]

16 hours ago, Aoslare said:

It doesn't get mentioned in five games and would create gaping plot holes if it were a thing.  You could just as well say "hey maybe shapers can fly."  The games never say they can't!

That nails it. You are correct.

 

Not completely on topic commentary about flying, not cloning

 

PS. Considering Shapers can do self-shaping and they can add wings to Creations, there are mentions in the games that they could, theoretically, fly if:  they put their minds to it, create a huge, illegal complex like the barrier of wings to develop the process for Shapers. Like Moseh did and turned to a crystal monstrosity. Find Guardians (who else?!) to stick wings on. 
 

PPS. The games do state that there are flying creations used for scouting. They never directly show them, but they are mentioned. The rebels also use them in GF4.

Edited April 30 by alhoon