Removing/increasing the level cap?

[mikeprichard]

Anybody know of a way to do this? I'm in the middle of the "Hunting M******" quest (which I'm guessing is around 2/3 of the way through the game), and have already hit level 30. Granted, I've explored every available map and done every side quest so far, but I know I'm not the only thorough gamer out there, and hitting the cap so early kills a lot of the fun for me - I'd love to try out new/improved skills, etc.

[Lilith]

As far as I know, there's no known way to increase the level cap. If you do want to try out different skills, though, you could use the retrainer to reset a character's build and explore other skills that you haven't used.

 

There was some talk about plans for Avadon 2 to have a higher level cap than Avadon 1 shortly after the first game came out, but for whatever reason that didn't happen.

[mikeprichard]

Lilith - darn, that's what I was afraid of... thanks for confirming though!

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Edited June 27, 2023 by ...

[mikeprichard]

I actually think the real underlying "problem" with Avadon character development is the fact that the gameplay is much more linear than Exile/Avernum, so your characters basically always correspond in strength to the available enemies throughout the game. This is clearly an intentional gameplay balance choice on Jeff's part, but IMHO, it kills the feeling of character growth that's essential to a fun RPG. For example, in Exile/Avernum - especially the earlier titles - you could choose to visit lots of places with enemies significantly stronger than your characters at any point in the game. Yes, most people wouldn't actually do so, but it was extremely satisfying to challenge yourself against enemies two or three - or even ten - levels higher than you; through good strategy and even a little luck, you might score a victory and some great loot - or if not, you could come back later and actually get a feel for how much stronger you've become.

 

By contrast, in Avadon (and other linear RPGs), there's an even difficulty throughout most of the game - one or two token "challenge" fights excepted. Again, yes, this can be good - but not if you're forced into it. That's why more free-roaming/”open-world” games, like Spiderweb's earlier titles, have always been much more satisfying to me, while Avadon - though better than your average game - has just felt bland. (On a side note, I'm really, really looking forward to the remake of Avernum 3 down the road. With its dynamic and huge game world, it’s my favorite Spiderweb title.)

 

Anyway, of course there’s no objective “right” or “wrong” in this whole debate on character development in linear vs. open-world RPGs – and I fully understand that just because a game is “open-world,” doesn’t mean the gameplay is necessarily done right – but it is what it is.

[Lilith]

Avadon has such limited character development that if the level cap were increased it'd basically allow you to max out your character entirely. Since Avadon has no real non-combat skills to trade-off combat skills with, it means that there is no question of "do I want more utility vs. easier fights?" and therefore character development is bland and uninteresting. So in that respect, the existing cap makes no sense because you aren't really making meaningful choices anyway - it's simply a question of "you want more damage for this skill, or this skill?" with the end result being identical.

 

By that standard, though, "more utility vs. easier fights" as implemented in most previous Spiderweb games is a false choice too. In the Avernum series, the reward for "more utility" in the form of lockpicking or cave lore was generally access to more items, resulting in, well, easier fights. Leadership and Mechanics in Geneforge were a little more versatile, but many of their applications were still to let you bypass combat or make it easier. (Or to let you do both the combat and non-combat routes through an area, resulting in more experience, resulting in, you guessed it, easier fights.)

[mikeprichard]

By the way, is anybody working on/planning a character stats/skills editor? I'd like to simulate removing the level cap by adding a couple points to skills whenever I've earned enough XP to get to what would be level 31, 32, etc. I know a lot of people won't agree, but I think hitting the level cap only 2/3 of the way through the game is pretty lame.

[Mod.]

In my opinion, If you have a level cap, you are doing something wrong.

[mikeprichard]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the cap either... maybe Jeff will finally ditch it for Avadon 3.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Yeah, maybe if enough people bother him about it he'll listen this time.