Two-handed weapons and shields in Avernum

[Durandal]

No clue where this should go, since it's a suggestion for the future (I think) updates to the Exile/Avernum series for OSX 10.7. I figured it would be better to start a discussion here, rather than my initial impulse to bother the author with a direct email that had no other input but my own.

 

Simply put, I miss the two-handers from the old Exile series.

 

It feels like an RPG just isn't complete without the greatswords and giant maces, and though they weren't terribly useful compared to dual wield in Exile 2 (didn't play 3), I still liked the idea of them. I personally would be thrilled to see them make a comeback to the future remakes of Avernum 2/3, and I think there is a fairly simple arrangement to make them work.

 

From my recent experience in the Avernum 1 remake, polearms just didn't match up to dual-wield in damage and utility. They had some cool stats on them, but I ended up using them for my casters, rather than melee. I figure It would be best to divide the stats into one-handed (maybe incorporate a bonus for shield users?) and two-handed weapons for simplicity and easy integration of 2-handed swords and maces. As for balancing the damage disparity, it might be cool to give different utility to the weapon classes.

 

Dual-wield I see as being awesome single target damage. Of course the casters will have the monopoly on multiple target damage, but it seems to me that adding cleaves as a universal stat to 2-handers such that they do more total damage than dual-wield when fighting enemies adjacent to one another. Significant enough that one would want to specialize a character in it, even if the damage on single targets (like solo big enemies) is lesser, and not feel like they are missing out. Also, maybe incorporating some extra stats to make up for using one magic item, compared to two.

 

As for shields, well... they're kinda boring, especially at lower difficulties where the damage isn't coming in as hard to the tank character. I think adding a battle discipline or two that requires a shield equipped would make it feel like you aren't wasting a weapon slot on weaker enemies, as well as making them a more exciting option.

 

As a last, and less significant suggestion, I personally think that adding different cosmetics/animations for dual-wield, shield, each of the two-handed weapon types (should it expand from poles) would go a long way towards more RP immersion.

 

Thoughts?

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Basically nice suggestions, but if there is one thing I have learned on the forums(mostly from Randomizer) Jeff is lazy.

Also doing the changes will take time and personally I would rather have the games a month earlier than have the option for a greatsword.

[adc.]

I do hope they still include the dual-wield option on the other Avernum remakes. It just doesn't feel like an assassin when you don't have blades on both hands.

About the greatswords and maces? I like them a bit, but, restricting a shield to be equipped makes me feel less armed.

The shields are important to your character, if, the shield is an efficient one; now that's good for your heavily-armed men. But shields that you get from the beginning of the game is almost useless and ineffective. I like shields.

---------

Red-eyed phantom

[*i]

The issue with the way shields are implemented versus dual wield and two-handed weapons is that it is almost always better to do more damage and kill your enemies faster, thereby avoiding damage altogether, than to merely reduce the amount of damage taken per hit. To make using a shield versus the alternatives an effective strategy, you would probably need to make their damage avoidance strong (high chance of parry), reduce the effectiveness of all player attacks, and make healing more costly or less effective.

[Death Knight]

I always use sword and shield with mostly every fighter build I play in Avernum. I find it to provide good defense and still hit fairly hard with the right weapons. I will one day try a dual wielding sword setup but will likely use daggers to make it more interesting.

 

The only setup I could never get into at all would be spears because Avernum Escape from the Pit gives no logical reasoning of why you would want to. Flaming blade and radiant short blade provide better bonuses from what I can see.

[Durandal]

The basic consensus seems to be that shields are fairly useless, especially in the beginning where incoming damage is low, because from a practical standpoint killing things faster is simply better: why bother mitigating damage when killing it quickly precludes the need for that and healing?

 

.. and make healing more costly or less effective.

 

Probably true from an "optimization" standpoint, and I don't like the idea of making something else worse so that people feel pigeon-holed into using a different aspect.

 

I guess while they dont necessarily have to be "awesome" I want shields and two-handers to feel like an option, something different, and most of all another fun choice, rather than the hinderance they currently feel like. Why choose a path that basically reduces your effectiveness, especially at higher difficulties?

 

I think balancing it out with new/tweaked battle disciplines might be workable. Give like, 2 new abilities that require a shield equipped and do something utility-based, and not necessarily damage oriented (eg ensnare all adjacent enemies for two turns) and make it, well, a fun choice, if not the best choice. As for two-handers, maybe make bladesweep way better when one is equipped. It seems like it's pretty meh damage [and has atrocious accuracy?] for one-handers as is, and only really good for getting rid of wimpy monsters.

 

but if there is one thing I have learned on the forums(mostly from Randomizer) Jeff is lazy.

Also doing the changes will take time and personally I would rather have the games a month earlier than have the option for a greatsword.

 

Hey. A boy can dream.

[Trenton.]

AVERNUM 4. Y U NO GREATSWORD?

 

Avernum 4 is best Game, and this is about Greatswords. Topic brought up. Yay!

 

 

 

Add them in Jeff.

[Death Knight]

This is not related but I like your profile picture Trenton. It reminds me of the only Zelda game my brother completed that I didnt

[Trenton.]

That's what PM's are for.

 

 

Fire one up. But don't clutter the Forums with comments on my Avatars

 

 

Unless I make a thread about that topic. Which, If I do, I'm pretty sure will get locked within the first two hours.