Attributes?

[Vash]

Just bought this game but I have a lot of confusion about the attributes.

 

I've been reading up on some party build guides but they never seem to show what attributes would go best for a certain type of build.

 

For example one guide says this:

Quote:

The first fighter emphasizes defense, combining Hardiness, Resistance, Parry, and

Endurance traits to be able to withstand anything.

The second fighter maxes out

offensive skills as much as can reasonably be done, while still having a strong

defense from Parry.

 

FIGHTER 1

8+2 Melee Weapons

+1 Pole Weapons

+1 Bows

+1 Thrown Weapons (First Expedition Bow for the last 3 points to AR & BS)

10+2 Hardiness

10+2 Parry

10+2 Blademaster

+1 Lethal Blow

+1 Dual Wielding

8 Priest Spells

8+1 Spellcraft

9+1 Resistance

 

Negotiator, Health Traits x3, Endurance x5, Parry Mastery x2, Mighty Blows x3,

DW Traits x2

 

FIGHTER 2

9+2 Melee Weapons

+1 Pole Weapons

+1 Bows

+1 Thrown Weapons (Warrior Cloak for the last 2 points to AR & BS)

10+2 Hardiness

10+2 Parry

10+2 Blademaster

7+2 Quick Action

9+1 Lethal Blow

8+1 Dual Wielding

+1 Resistance

 

Negotiator, Health Traits x2, Mighty Blows x3, DW Traits x2, Strength x5,

Backstabber x3

 

Does this mean the first fighter should have all attribute points in endurance, ignoring strength completely or should the stat points be put in both strength and endurance?

 

Edit:

 

I understand this may seem very ignorant.

It is just that I have no idea how a full strength 0 endurance will hold up at the end of the game, same with full endurance 0 strength.

 

 

[Earth]

if your 1st fighter is tank aka draws enemies hits to him/herself then upgrade mostly endurance and bit strength so he/she can do some damage until later at game when you don't need tank that much.

[Vash]

Could you give me an example of how much str/end your fighter has at lvl 30 in that situation?

[Alorael at Large]

Actually, I think those builds are giving you only skills and traits, not attributes. The implication seems to be that you should go heavy on Endurance for the first and Strength for the second, of course, but I can't vouch for the creator's intentions. All I'll say is that you want enough Endurance that you feel comfortable with your characters' frequency of death, and you want enough Strength that your damage dealers deal real damage. You can adjust to taste; unless you're playing on the highest difficulty you'll probably be okay.

 

—Alorael, who wrote the end of the second to last sentence mostly so he could string those word together.

[Jerakeen]

Fighters need to focus on strength or they won't be able to hit anything. Put a few points into endurance, sure, but everything else in strength.

[Vash]

Originally Posted By: Jerakeen

Fighters need to focus on strength or they won't be able to hit anything. Put a few points into endurance, sure, but everything else in strength.

So you are saying that even if I go for a tank, I need to focus on strength instead of endurance?

[The Reverend]

Endurance doesn't help that much in the long run - each point only gives you 5 extra hit points, which really isn't very much by the end of the game. The 3 health traits help a lot more in the long run. Endurance can help a bit in the beginning, though, when 5 points represent a decent percentage of your total hit points. Just make sure you don't neglect Strength for your melee fighters, or they won't be able to hit anything.

 

I think I did something like 2 points of strength for every 1 point of endurance early on, and then switched to all strength after my HP got high enough that 5 points didn't seem worth it anymore.

[Slawbug]

Str/Dex/Int is probably more valuable than Endurance, but that's because offensive abilities are very strong in this game. Endurance actually DOES help quite a bit. Without adding to it at all, you'll have around 210 HP at level 30. So most points of Endurance you add, will add between 2% and 2.5% to your HP total. This isn't much, but given how easy it is to spam group healing spells and keep your party topped up, Endurance becomes almost like adding 2% to 2.5% to your armor and all your resistances. This makes it a bit less useful than Hardiness, but only a bit -- and Hardiness is terrific.

[Vash]

Thank you all very much for your insights, after fiddling around with a char with 2 endurance for every 1 strength I can tell you it's just not a viable build. The high ammount of HP you have doesn't make up for the damage you lack.

[Kestral]

House of S has this one right.

 

Each character will have one primary attacking stat: either Str(melee), Int(casters), or Dex(ranged), which should always get a majority of stat increases over their lifetime if they are to have any hope of good to-hit percentages.

 

Then there's the choice of how much to dilute your offense to get some Endurance.

 

My fighter was going only about 2/3 strength and 1/3 endurance and I found that his hit rate was suffering unless he wore lighter armor.

 

I switched to 100% strength (already having 5 or so points in endurance) and got a couple +strength traits and have been much happier since; the strength is actually also helping him tank because he can now wear armor with bigger to-hit penalties without having to worry that this will drop his hit-rate to unacceptable levels against more powerful foes.

 

So I think over-all a damage dealer should go 100% strength and a tank should put maybe up to 25% of those points in endurance, but no more than that if he still wants to be able to do damage in addition to tanking.

 

Note/Question:

Doesn't endurance also increase resistance vs poison/acid/etc? It seems like my fighter with his extra few points of endurance usually only gets 1 or at most 2 turns of acid when he's hit with it, while my other characters tend to get 3 turns. Might be something in his equipment is doing this though, by adding acid resistance.

[Vash]

What I ended up doing was running a custom tank build and putting all attributes in strength, but taking 3x health traits and 5x increased endurance trait.

[Slawbug]

The Increased Str/Dex/Int/End traits have the same effect as boosting stats. The Increased HP traits are better late in the game, but are actually *less* useful until you reach 100, 125, and 167 HP respectively.

[Death Knight]

What i usually do and i likely will for avernum 2, 3 remake, is add strength every level with endurance every 3rd level. So lvl 3, 6 and 9 get endurance but lvl 2, 4, and 5 get strength.

 

Avadon's system allows for a little more freedom because most of the time the characters can hit most enemies with much less points into weapon attributes. Im making a shaman right now that is the complete opposite of my blade master that wielded bows my first game. Endurance every level with dexterity every level.

[Slawbug]

Avadon's system doesn't really allow that much more freedom. The basic weapon skills do contribute more to your accuracy rating, but they also have fairly low caps. More damning, however, is the dramatic imbalance of the secondary effects of Str/Dex/Int/End that make many builds horrendously sub-optimal.

[Death Knight]

Its true that the build I'm trying on avadon isn't ridiculously powerful, but its normal difficulty and fun all the same. I would never make it on torment or tricky difficulties. A lot of things that i like to try don't work on torment. When i play through avernum 2 remake, i might try a new party with 1 warrior, 2 archers (probably nephils) and a priest. The 2 archers likely wouldn't work on torment.