Tenderfoot Thahd Kordor Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Heya, with all the kickstarter hype going around I am wondering if Spiderweb already considered the thought of using kickstarter to "expand" their games. From other threads in this forum I already understood that Jeff's ambitions to work with other people are rather small. However I don't think it's even necessary to add in additional people - at least not permanently. While Kickstarter is no way to "print money" I think it's a good way to motivate people to spend additional money to a project than which is necessarily needed. And with a company as Spiderweb every additional Dollar can be efficiently invested into additional components to improve the game while not touching the core game or use too much money for "management" or "expensive names". Once these investment was made, the stuff bought could also be used in future projects of course. If I am looking at Avadon and the new Avernum I see two great games which lack 3 things to elevate to the next "level" I'd say. These things were used before and will also be used in future games I guess. The two things which are the easiest things to upgrade via outsourced material are: -Sound Let's face it. The sounds in Avadon and Avernum are horrible. I also bought Geneforge a few months ago and one of the reasons I didn't feel I could play the first parts was that the sound there was even worse. After playing Avernum for a just a few hours I had to disable the background sounds as I just could not stand it anymore. The sound in the city where you could a very short loop with some kind of arab child voice in the foreground is deadly - and doesn't work as "background" at all. What I did instead is playing Avernum while listening to a self made playlist from music I bought from Nox Arcana some years ago. If you want to check it out, try this Youtube Playlist for example. They got awesome music, also more calm "background-style" music than the linked ones. I especially mention Nox Arcana not just because they do awesome and very fitting music, but also because Nox Arcana's Music is also used by the Fan Made Civilization 4 Mod called "Fall from Heaven 2". They agreed that the music can be used in this non-commercial product. So while Spiderweb will probably not be able to aquire the "full rights" in the already published music, it's maybe possible to require partial rights so that the music can be used in the game. Or, if a kickstarter project provides enough money, even new music for the game (also by other artists of course, just giving an example). Also the sound effects could use an overhaul. While some sounds (e.g. monster sounds) are pretty decent, other sounds, e.g. item sounds within inventory, could really need a replacement. -Graphics According to the Spiderweb homepage, Spiderweb is looking to buy Sprites and Grafics from other sources anyways. I am not talking about "making avadon a 3D Realtime shooter with RPG/Story elements" but about improving the quality and quantity of graphics. More Sprites for characters for example, additional item graphics and so on. Also having more portraits for your party and for NPCs would be great. Also something like the skill-description pics in Avernum right now look rather unprofessional. If you want to do even bigger chances of course an engine upgrade would be needed, but I guess I would not go further than the Graphics of Eschalon (which however looks amazing compared to Spiderweb games - not talking about the content). The one thing which is probably not as easy to add to: -Interface/ Controls /AI The Interface could get some serious improvements (on PC at least). I don't think it's hard to make small changes which would have a big impact. I am not sure how good you can "oursource" this kind of work. So what exactly I am talking about here? Right now you only have 4 abilities/char in your hotbar, though a lot more are needed. But what is especially annoying when getting into the game is the AI during the controls: You move a character with one single click. After this click the character uses the most direct way to reach the destination. If this "most direct" way leads right into the "red zone" of an enemy by which he is slowed down/can't continue the character doesn't care. Especially with the "you need 1 action point left to do anything"-mechanic this is extremely annoying until you get used to it. So what I would suggest are two changs here: A two click system ala Jagged Alliance: First Click: Route the character will take is displayed. Second click: Character moves. A better AI: not using the "most direct" way but the most efficient way. Well, that are my 2 cents about Spiderweb and Kickstarter. I don't want the the whole game to change. But I think with very little additional money the games from Spiderweb could be improved a lot. This should of course not be compared to the DoubleFineAdventure or Wasteland2 - which both looked for hundreds of thousands of dollars and ended up with millions. Originally kickstarter was used for rather small projects and I think these also profit a lot from it. Look for the "The Dead Linger"-Project for example. And they have even less to look back at while Spiderweb seems to have a very dedicated community already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Originally Posted By: Kordor the Graphics of Eschalon (which however looks amazing compared to Spiderweb games - not talking about the content) What Eschalon does right, and what Spiderweb has not done since the 90's, is to have a vibrant, colorful palette. If you put two Avernum and Eschalon graphics side by side, I think you'll find that they are quite similar in terms of details, smoothness, and general design principles. (Avernum has quite a bit more variety, but it's also a much longer game.) But where Eschalon gives you a screen full of friendly greens and blues and rich browns and yellows, Spiderweb games give you pale, dreary colors, tans and grays in abundance, and murky brown bricks. To a certain extent, this is because of location. Avernum is set entirely in the underworld, while Geneforge games have traditionally involved a lot of travel through isolated wastelands, ruins, and underground labs. (No doubt the availability of Avernum's graphics influenced this tendency.) But even the greener regions, like Khemeria in Avadon, seem a little pale and sparse compared with what Eschalon offers -- or with what Exile 3 and Nethergate offered in the late 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Escahalon uses layers of images to achieve their graphics which is an entirely different method than used by Spiderweb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S To a certain extent, this is because of location. Avernum is set entirely in the underworld bring back the blue cave floors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S To a certain extent, this is because of location. Avernum is set entirely in the underworld bring back the blue cave floors Five minutes in phatch on the floor images and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The NEON TURQUOISE cave floors were hideous. The grass and trees and rivers, however, were quite nice. But even the pale gray and purple cave palette of BoE was more welcoming than Avernum's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S The NEON TURQUOISE cave floors were hideous. you take that back right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S To a certain extent, this is because of location. Avernum is set entirely in the underworld, while Geneforge games have traditionally involved a lot of travel through isolated wastelands, ruins, and underground labs. (No doubt the availability of Avernum's graphics influenced this tendency.) But even the greener regions, like Khemeria in Avadon, seem a little pale and sparse compared with what Eschalon offers -- or with what Exile 3 and Nethergate offered in the late 90's. This is very true for Avernum the underworld; I've never felt like the palette wasn't sufficient for any of the other games, though. After having spent a lot of time playing Avernum 3, I had a difficult time going back to replay the preceding two Avernums, because everything was so drab. This is a really tough issue to get around, since Avernum is a series of prison caves, but nonetheless it exists as it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I will do no such thing. They were hideous, and I stand by that statement. I actually felt like A3 itself was the drabbest of the bunch. It felt constrained and dull. But maybe that was because I kept comparing it to E3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The blue caves I could handle, but why the neon green grass? —Alorael, who still remembers how much the outdoors, with greens and browns and plenty of trees and bushes, struck him when he first played Nethergate. He doesn't think the outside world has looked as good since A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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