Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 The old stinky contest is just about over and we got a lot of good entries out of it. If you haven't played them yet, go do that. If you made an entry and haven't refined and released it yet, go do that. If you made a BoE entry, which no one played because I'm too stupid to figure out how to get it to work on my damn machine no one cool plays BoE anymore, translate it over to BoA so that we can enjoy your brilliance. With winter break coming up, or having already started for some, I thought it might be a good idea to try to get another contest going. I'd personally like to attempt something small and wacky again, so that we can finish up before summer in time for a general scenario contest (if anyone would be interested in that). If you think you might be interested, post any ideas you have. If we have enough support, I'd like to get this thing started by the end of the week to give people enough time to get started. Also, if you've never designed before but want to give it a shot, please feel free to share your input. I'd love to see more people making scenarios for this outdated and frustrating editor. --- In the spirit of the Christmas holiday, I think it would be interesting to incorporate some of those elements into a very community-themed contest. Just some random ideas: - Variations on the same scenario - Scenario construction, Secret Santa style - Pass it along (i.e, make a town, pass the scenario to someone else) And, of course, any good holiday special needs a moral lesson at the end that makes you feel all warm and gooey inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 The snow terrain would be fun to see, and it would be in the Christmas spirit. Doing quests for santa (or killing him) would also be fun. Hmmm.... Now I wonder if Ermarian has a version of santa, and if it would even be human. A Vahnatai santa would be kind of creepy. I'll have to try that, but dont expect me to ever manage to send a scenario in. The BoA editor is easily the most frustrating editor ive ever used. Maybe its that im just too used to the TES 3 construction set. Oh well. Feel free to steal my idea, people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 I think a contest where everyone has to incorporate the snow tileset could be cool, or christmas-themed scenarios. I think variations on the same scenario would be a little bit boring, since no one wants to play the same scenario over and over again. (Maybe we could have a group AIM chat like with the last contest to work out the details once we have a basic idea.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Originally Posted By: Tirien Hmmm.... Now I wonder if Ermarian has a version of santa, and if it would even be human. Synergy wrote a parody of 'Twas the Night Before Christmas, which used Patrick as Santa Claus. Let me see if I can dig it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Originally Posted By: Dintiradan Originally Posted By: Tirien Hmmm.... Now I wonder if Ermarian has a version of santa, and if it would even be human. Synergy wrote a parody of 'Twas the Night Before Christmas, which used Patrick as Santa Claus. Let me see if I can dig it up... Patrick? Bah. We all know its Rentar who gives all of the presents. Of course, they tend to involve hordes of monsters, but their still presents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I'm definitely interested, and I need to get designing in a meaningful way again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I wouldn't mind doing a contest again, and hopefully completing a scenario this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I like the 'pass it along' idea, I think that would be nifty. Also, what is a 'Secret Santa'? Is that the thing where you make a scenario without your name on it and people have to guess who made it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 We could also do a sort of Night Before Christmas theme, where the narrative in each scenario has to be constructed in that sort of prose. The Secret Santa thing is a little vague, and I had intended for it to work along the same lines as our last contest, except with ideas from various members in exchange for randomly generated content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 GIFTS with santa hats giving out gifts?... "Hi! Your cute! Have a gift!" I think that would give some of us nightmares... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Handyman Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 ...the "passing it along" idea is one of the best I have heard in a long time. There are, obviously, some difficulties in coordination: How much "time" should a person be allowed to add to a scenario? Would we judge both the scenarios, and the individual contributions? Would subsequent editors be allowed to edit previous sections? (I'm leaning towards "no.") My favorite part of that suggestion is that it encourages people to design in different people's styles. So, I'm inclined to give the "first" designer great liberty over the rest of the scenario. I think designers should thus be judged based on their "vision" for the scenario they started; and the "insight" they provide to scenarios they continue, especially those they end. It might be interesting to specify which things the initial designer can specify: Setting? Main characters? Motives? Presumably, they can't simply script out the characters' actions. And, they can't write in *too* obvious of plot hooks. Perhaps designers' visions can be graded on how well they DON'T script the actions in their scenarios. We might also want to limit how many towns/outdoor sections the initial and subsequent designers are allowed to contribute. Also, there's the issue of timing: Presumably, we want to rotate these things, so that they all get worked on at the same rate. But, of course, people are often totally irresponsible. I don't know. Perhaps this contest is too ambitious; but the potential would be grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I think if we were to do a contest where the scenario was passed along, we would have to come up with a general premise/plot together, instead of letting the first designer come up with all the details. That said, I'm not sure I like the idea of a contest where we pass it along. If we did something like that, we would end up with only one new scenario, full of plot flaws and inconsistencies. I think it's better to just let designers do individual scenarios and end up with more high-quality scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Handyman Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 I was thinking instead of having multiple scenarios, each started by each contributor. Hopefully that clarifies things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Originally Posted By: Handyman I was thinking instead of having multiple scenarios, each started by each contributor. Hopefully that clarifies things. So, we'd all start one and 'pass it to the left' or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Oh, I was thinking that you meant we'd all contribute to a single scenario. I actually like the idea of doing multiple scenarios and passing them along, but it might get a little confusing with all of the loose ends. My main concern is that we could run into problems with mixing up SDFs, so the scenarios would all have to be extremely linear. And how would we judge that contest, anyway, if the scenarios were all shared efforts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Contest* organizers: have a strict, well-defined procedure for passing around the scenario(s). Specifically, have a deadline for each revision, and have a way of handling the case where one contestant doesn't finish a portion in time. Remember, if you're making a scenario in a chain, one broken link will break the scenario. Just look at Edit Them Dead. * 'Contest' is maybe a bad word -- this probably shouldn't be a competitive event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Handyman Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Recording SDFs is probably not that difficult. If you are not clearly documenting what your SDFs are doing, you probably do not understand your own scenario. (More on this below.) This post is going to be a lot of words, but I'd like much of the following to be nitpicked as a proposed set of rules for the contest: 1. Begin your scenario well. (a) Not too restrictive, not too open-ended: The major plot hooks (ESPECIALLY the ending) should be left for others to decide, but they should have a fleshed-out setting in which to plan the action. ( Describe the characters as briefly as possible while still keeping them interesting. © Write a premise which can be wrapped up by the end of the contest, while also gives each designer enough to do. (d) Write an interesting premise. The initial encounters should provide some sort of build-up; however subtle or dramatic is up to you. (e) If you use any complicated, custom scripting that is used throughout the scenario; like requiring the party to eat food, leveling NPCs, special spells, etc.; make this as easy as possible for future designers to implement. 2. Contribute to scenarios well. (a) Adhere to the *initial designer's* vision of the scenario. If other designers have strayed, bring the scenario back in as well as you can. It does not matter if your contribution is not spectacular, as long as it fits. ( Leave as few loose ends as possible. (Some tasks, like "coding dialogue for towns," will probably not be finished by the first designers. However, leaving a dungeon or important encounter unfinished is ill advised.) © Fixing others' loose ends and bugs may be preferable to advancing the plot, depending on how much work must be done to complete a scenario. (E.g., it is understandable if you prioritize a good ending over fixing numerous errors.) (d) Record any *significant* errors in the version you were given, including loose ends, bugs, and departures from the initial designer's vision. If insignificant errors occur frequently, that is also significant. [Judges will evaluate your performance according to these priorities. Also, final contributions to scenarios will be most important.] 3. Finish your contribution well. (a) FINISH ON TIME. If you have loose ends, it does not matter; finish on time. ( Make your documentation clear enough for subsequent designers to understand. Document which SDFs, personalities, VTEs, towns, etc. are used for which purposes. (You should be documenting these things as you make scenarios anyway.) When scripting is more complex, comment it. © If there are any loose ends or bugs you neglected to or could not fix, document them for the next designer. (Some loose ends, such as incomplete dialogue, are perfectly acceptable, especially in earlier versions.) (d) Record the contributions you have made. This includes additions to the main plot, patching of loose ends, dialogue/terrain written, etc. (Minor changes should not be mentioned, unless they are cumulatively significant.) Documentation should be as short as possible while still hitting the main points. If someone does not continue a scenario successfully, then the scenario they started will be dropped from the competition, and they will not edit other scenarios. The remaining scenarios can be handed off to those remaining. Nobody should edit the same scenario twice. Therefore, there will be fewer rotations than there are designers, minimizing the odds of such redundancy. Progress on the disqualified scenario will still be used to judge other contributors. ...whew. I personally like this idea, because it forces designers into unique situations, like a good writing exercise. I would like for the contest to last no more than, say, eight months; and I would like for a rotation to last maybe 1-2 months. Later rotations should be given somewhat more time, so designers can test previous versions. The first rotation may also be given somewhat more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Quote: I personally like this idea, because it forces designers into unique situations, like a good writing exercise. I would like for the contest to last no more than, say, eight months; and I would like for a rotation to last maybe 1-2 months. Later rotations should be given somewhat more time, so designers can test previous versions. The first rotation may also be given somewhat more time. I think you are severely overestimating your attention span. I know that I personally will get bored with BoA again before 8 months are through. I would keep rotations to a week, with a relatively small amount of work "required" for each. If this is just a fun little thing, these scenarios don't have to be particularly large or intricate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Handyman Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Fair enough. I guess I'd want rotations to be longer than a week... (For instance, I know that if I only have a week, I simply will not get anything done, depending on the week.) Perhaps 2 weeks? I'd want each scenario to have at least 4 designers, too. So, perhaps 2-3 months? I suspect part of the fun will come not from designing itself, but from working with someone else's ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Am I the only person who doesn't like the idea of working with someone else's ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 No. However, the rest of us don't like working with someone else's scenario editor, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: Duck m I the only person who doesn't like the idea of working with someone else's ideas? Participation in the contest will not be mandatory. (Probably) Originally Posted By: Slartucker No. However, the rest of us don't like working with someone else's scenario editor, either. Well, feel free to make your own and use that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 How's this for a contest idea: Everyone starts a new scenario, including the basic starter town, Warrior's Grove. Then, after deleting all characters, special encounters, dialogue, area descriptions, etc., and without changing any of the terrain, everyone makes a 1-town, 0-outdoor section scenario by adding as many characters, encounters and dialogue as they want. I think this would be better for a short contest, as we could all realistically be done within at least two weeks. Plus we would probably get a lot more finished products than with the last contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 It would be interesting to see how creative different designers could be within that framework. I think you'd have to allow sign text to be edited; what about items? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Man, I have got the prefect idea for that. Even if that doesn't make it to a contest, I'm totally doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Quote: I think you'd have to allow sign text to be edited; what about items? Yeah, the only thing that I think should not be allowed to be edited is the terrain (including webs and crates). Characters, items, scripts, special encounters, sign text, and even the starting location could all be changed. Also, I think designers should be allowed to make small changes using set_terrain() and set_floor() calls, but nothing huge like completely redrawing the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 So I can't redraw the entire town using set_terrain() and set_floor() calls? (Actually, I tried that for the just completed contest, and it turns out to be close to impossible if one needs to change the floor, terrain, and height of each space. It might, however, become practical if the necessary changes are more sparse, and it could be very interesting optimization problem to try to generate the script which would most efficiently effect those changes.) At any rate, I think that you could simply have the judges enforce that the town is essentially the given starting town without overly drastic modifications. I think it wouldn't be too hard to understand and stick to the spirit of such a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 Anyone want to change perspectives and have a scenario playthrough contest? The scenario rankings are looking sparse, and I think it'd be cool to ignite some love for the lonely sister of scenario design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 A scenario playthrough contest could be fun, too, and it might help me get back into designing, since I've been running out of ideas lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt aka Ravenwing Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 You talking… just playing through existing scenarios? How would we make a contest out of something like that, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Handyman Posted December 28, 2010 Share Posted December 28, 2010 (Perhaps the idea is to verify by posting thoughtful reviews.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt aka Ravenwing Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Well I guess, but… I dunno. That just sounds like something to do if you have something insightful to say about a given scenario. (Which is why I've yet to deliver even a single review; I usually don't have an insightful thought in my head, let alone something worth writing in a scenario evaluation. ) I dunno… I suppose I'm just not used to the idea of having a contest based on reviewing, rather than scenario building. Not a bad idea, just… different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 It could be a simple gameplay challenge. Like trying to beat DwtD on Torment with a level 1 party. If we wanted to make it a review based challenge, we could simply count up the number of scenario reviews a person has given by the end of a certain date. Obviously, they would have to meet the review criteria, and I doubt anyone here would cheat and fake reviews. EDIT: Or we could set a few gameplay rules, make a path of scenarios to accomplish, and see how far people could get without reloading (i.e what Ephesos was doing a little while back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 "EDIT: Or we could set a few gameplay rules, make a path of scenarios to accomplish, and see how far people could get without reloading (i.e what Ephesos was doing a little while back)." If we step away from scenario design for this next contest, I really like this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody BJ Back From the Beyond Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 You would have to depend on the honor of all participants to enforce the rules though. If we do a contest like that, I can't see the possibility of awarding prizes. I do think we need to get more reviews though. *glances at own scenario and sadly shakes head* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Originally Posted By: B.J.Earles You would have to depend on the honor of all participants to enforce the rules though. Well, looks like im out of the running then. Im tempted to say "Curses, foiled again!" but then I realized this is the first time for me. Wait, would admitting that I would cheat on this count as honor? Gah, I cant win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 29, 2010 Author Share Posted December 29, 2010 I would hope we could trust in everyone's honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 You can trust me, Slith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Quote: Or we could set a few gameplay rules, make a path of scenarios to accomplish, and see how far people could get without reloading I like this idea, but I'm almost certain I wouldn't get too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 So, what's the deal? Are we definitely doing a scenario play-through contest, or what? I think we should set up a group chat on AIM so we can work out the details sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I may be game for a playing contest. I also like the idea of a Warrior's Grove contest. If it's only BoA though, I just can't figure out the scripting, so I'd be out there (for a designing contest). Also, review contests have been done before. The rules were: 1. You'd get one point for reviewing a scenario. 2. If you move a scenario from unrated to rated (if you're the fifth person), you get two points. 3. One point is deducted each day. 4. If you have zero points, you're eliminated. 5. The winner is the last person standing. This would be fun too, I've actually suggested it before but it never went anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 6. If you are TM, you win. Continually, until you run out of scenarios to review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Wouldn't rule 2 just discourage people from posting a 3rd or 4th review, so they could wait and try to be 5th? Isn't the idea to get people to POST reviews, not withhold them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well, if people choose to wait so they can post their review as the fifth, they could run out of points, couldn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well if they withhold reviews, then their not going to gain any points. Which will cause them to lose, so their going to have to do reviews, if only to stay in the game. Curse you Duck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Handyman Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Why not just give extra points to *all* reviews of unrated scenarios? Perhaps, we could give an extra .5 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Theoretically, it could, but past contests have shown this is not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 What's the point of giving the 5th review more points than the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th? There's nothing special about the 5th review, and all 5 reviews are needed to earn "rated" status. I like Handyman's idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Duck in a Top Hat Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I say, to be fair, we keep it simple and say every review is worth 1 point, no matter what. This will make the scoring easier to keep track of, and it will make sure no one holds out on posting reviews for extra points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So would people be interested in such a contest at all, regardless of how it's scored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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