Newbie Ques: Start with Avernum 6?

[Bandy]

Hello all,

 

First post here. I am not familiar with the Avernum series, but could one launch directly into Avernum 6 not having played the other games?

 

Advice appreciated, thanks.

[Fael]

Absolutely.

 

Although, if you plan on playing all of them eventually, it would theoretically be best to start at the beginning and work forward -- I tend to find that the UI and mechanics advances in one version tend to make previous versions almost unplayable in retrospect (especially the revised encumbrance system in A5).

[Barzhal]

I say yes. I started with Avernum 5 and worked backwards (sort of). Although I was unfamiliar with the story, I still enjoyed it.

[The Mystic]

All the games here are designed so that you don't have to play earlier games, though the backstory they provide can help explain how things got the way they are.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

All the games here are designed so that you don't have to play earlier games, though the backstory they provide can help explain how things got the way they are.

The question is, would you rather think, "Oh, so that's why things turned out the way they did!" or would you rather think "I wonder what eventually happens."

I will say that if you play 4 and 5 and then 6, you will know where some things are before they are revealed during 6. This may or may not reduce your enjoyment of the game depending on how you feel about such things.

[jlsgaladriel]

There's an interface question as well as a narrative question. It's been ages since I've gone back to play the earlier iterations of Exile/Avernum, but I remember being annoyed by the interface in a way that I never was the first time through. Once you're used to certain features, it's hard to lose them.

 

It might be more fun to start with Avernum 1, and then appreciate the new interface features of A5 and A6, rather than to start at the end.

[Randomizer]

Avernum 1 to 3 use a completely different game engine and world mapping system from Avernum 4 to 6. So you will find playing the games a different experience. Each game gets new features in response to what players like and don't like in the last game.

 

Playing from the start of the series allows you to see what happens to cause the plot to advance in the next installment. Also you get to see some returning non player characters as they return and what happens to them.

 

Jeff provides enough background information so you can get into each game without playing the earlier ones.

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

Avernum 1 to 3 use a completely different game engine and world mapping system from Avernum 4 to 6.

Yep! I was never bothered by the scale changes between wild areas and towns/dungeons in the initial iteration, but I believe some folks were. IIRC for me by far the most annoying problems with the earlier versions involved inventory management, but I could be conflating the early Avernums with the Exiles.

The way in which action point counting has also changed, but it's not hard to adapt to whichever system is being used. And the battle disciplines in the later versions is a nice addition.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

The question is, would you rather think, "Oh, so that's why things turned out the way they did!" or would you rather think "I wonder what eventually happens.

"All the games in the Avernum series are quite open-ended (except maybe A4), so there are several possible endings in each game. And, of course, the ending you want may or may not end up as canon for later games, so you could think, "Why did things turn out that way?" (I get that a lot in the Geneforge series.)

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

There's an interface question as well as a narrative question. It's been ages since I've gone back to play the earlier iterations of Exile/Avernum, but I remember being annoyed by the interface in a way that I never was the first time through. Once you're used to certain features, it's hard to lose them.

I know what you mean. When I got the Exile series, I actually played it backwards, so I was disappointed that certain features in E3 & BoE weren't in E1 & E2.

[*i]

Actually, the early games are probably the least open-ended. I think it is possible to escape Avernum in A1 before doing everything but I may be wrong. However, in A2, you're pretty much trapped and have to do all three victory conditions. Likewise, in A3, you have to pretty much finish the game's main quest.

 

In A4, it's pretty linear, but you have some flexibility in letting the final enemy live if you are clever. Canon is this individual ends up dead. A5, you have a major binary choice and lots of little things. In A6, there's one endpoint, but depending on what you do impacts the ending text.

[Alorael at Large]

A1 and A2 have three major quests that give you a special victory message, but they don't actually end the game (unless you actually flee to the surface in A1, which you don't have to do). You can finish all three of the quests and keep on playing, too.

 

—Alorael, who would describe the first three games not so much as having multiple endings as being open-ended, which isn't the same. You can only get one (or three, if you prefer) endings, but you're given much more freedom to where to go and in what order you tackle the important quests.

[Mea Tulpa]

That isn't quite true. I assume this is true of Avernum as well, but in Exile and Exile 2, you only got the final victory message after completing ALL three victory conditions. The initial victory message said something like "Congratulations! You have completed one of the conditions for winning Exile..." while the final victory message was glowing, well-written, and the clear endpoint for the game. While you could certainly choose not to complete one of those main quests, you would never see the final victory dialogue -- and unlike in Geneforge or A5, there was no alternate victory condition to pursue. Moreover, unlike Geneforge, the sequels leave no ambiguity as to whether or not the victory conditions were completed as described. In each case, they definitely were.

[Bandy]

Wow! Thanks for replies!!!

This is certainly an active community with quite a following from what I see. Looking forward to trying all of them out in time and in chrono order, but unfortunately, I have to try '6' out first to fulfill an obligation.

 

'nough said.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: *i

Actually, the early games are probably the least open-ended. I think it is possible to escape Avernum in A1 before doing everything but I may be wrong. However, in A2, you're pretty much trapped and have to do all three victory conditions. Likewise, in A3, you have to pretty much finish the game's main quest.

In A1, you don't have to do much of anything in order to escape Avernum, save the major/minor quests needed to complete it. I don't know if there's a time limit for completing A2, but I do know there's one for A3. In A1 & A2, the game-winning quests can be done in any order; in A3, you have to deal with either the slimes or the roaches before dealing with either the giants and troglodytes or golems, and that one of those must be completed before entering Blackcrag. This is all the linearity I'm aware of in the entire first Avernum trilogy.

Quote:

In A4, it's pretty linear, but you have some flexibility in letting the final enemy live if you are clever. Canon is this individual ends up dead. A5, you have a major binary choice and lots of little things. In A6, there's one endpoint, but depending on what you do impacts the ending text.

A4 is immensely linear compared to the rest of the series, and it's next to impossible to have that final enemy live (and yes, I know who it is, but I won't spoil it by telling). For A5 & A6, I'll have to take your word for it; I never finished A5, and A6 isn't out yet for windows. However, I will say that so far, I find A5 to be almost as linear as A4, since you have to finish nearly all the quests in an area before moving on.

[Mea Tulpa]

It's worth pointing out that X1-2 did have some non-coercive linearity to them. That is to say, there are some pieces of the main quests that you could theoretically do right at the start of the game, but which you normally wouldn't know how to do until after talking to person A who refers you to person B, etc. This is especially true of X2, where there are very long branching chains of conversation and action required, mostly with different mages, to figure out what to do for the numerous components of all 3 major quests.

[Alorael at Large]

In Exile you can skip the dialogue if you know it already. In Avernum you still need to find the mages and go through the dialogues to open up the next dialogues to get the SDFs you need set.

 

—Alorael, who has a few corrections. A2 has no time limit. A3 does not either, but time has an effect on the game. There are a few time-sensitive quests, but none are critical. A1 and A2 require only the game-winning quests, but those are in fact large, multi-part quests, much of which must be done in order. The lack of linearity is more in the ability to go wherever you want. A3 also has that, but some towns won't let you in until you've done earlier quests, foreshadowing the more extreme geographic restrictions of A4+ and Geneforge.

[Mea Tulpa]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. Back in the day of BoE, there were a lot of complaints about "Bob" questmasters, where you report to one person (i.e. Anaximander) who tells you to do this, then do that, then do that, etc. But the original trilogy's Bobs, whether Anaximander, Micah, Mahdavi, Solberg, or whoever, never gave you all the details or all the necessary targets. You had to put pieces together from a lot of different places to really figure out what was going on and what to do. In the second trilogy, it literally is a case of Bob gives you one quest, which displays in special colors and on the quest log, and when you finish it he gives you another, repeat ad naseum.

[Alorael at Large]

BoE has more one-stop Bobs than Exile does, really. Exile gives you many quests of varying importance from assorted characters, and the major quests are actually given to you in pieces by different people.

 

—Alorael, who wishes someone would mention Anaximander and the fate of Unspecified Services Covert Ops in the later Avernums. Anaximander in particular deserves an eventual fate. Inquiring minds intrigued by the zipper on his robes want to know!

[Mea Tulpa]

He went to Almaria and met up with Trajkov. Duh