Garrulous Glaahk The_Other_Guy Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 When playing through A4, I have noticed a few contadictions. Two examples can be found here and here . Are this accidents or intentional humor do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I think they're closest approximations with limited graphics. I also don't really see how the second one is so bad. —Alorael, who thinks the real contradiction is a man in his fifties being one of the original Avernites. Exactly how old was he when he was tossed down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 The first one was probably a mistake. Either Jeff forgot his written description, or he just put the wrong picture on him. An 'elder', according to history, can actually be young. They just have to be experienced and wise. EDIT: His age when he was tossed down to Avernum... My guess is -22 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 There is some contradiction in the games about age. The approximate dates that exiling began and Avernum was founded are pretty consistently adhered to, but age is not handled well in A4. It takes place about 38 years (a conservative answer!) after A1 and about 80 years after the Kingdom of Avernum was founded. Some lines in the game suggest it's even longer after A1... yet people are alive who shouldn't be, and are younger than they should be. It's as if for much of the game's creation Jeff planned on a date only 25 years from A1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 There are plenty of contradictions in Spidweb games, such as Vyvnas being the mad crystal soul in A4 instead of Jekknol. Or Learned Darian switching genders. Or Khyryk appearing in Geneforge 4 in spite of the G3 rebel ending. But eh, contradictions aren't always awful. I wanted both Khyryk and the rebel ending for G4 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Quote: Originally written by The Lurker:There are plenty of contradictions in Spidweb games, such as Vyvnas being the mad crystal soul in A4 instead of Jekknol. Vyvnas and Jekknol were both a bit crazy in A3, but Vyvnas was crazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 In my opinion, the vahnatai race in general is crazy. It isn't just limited to Rentar-Ihrno, or any other crystal soul for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Most of them seem perfectly sane in A2, and you don't really get to talk to many in A3. The crazy ones are a lot of the mages and Crystal Souls. Mages of all types seem to go nuts with great frequency and most of the Crystal Souls that you encounter are not at their best. —Alorael, who unrelatedly never really was able to reconcile everything said in A1 about the Empire's stranglehold on the teaching and use of magic and A3's ease of access to magic. Even A4 should have some mention of wizards heading into Avernum to get access to spells they can't get in the Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Quote: Originally written by YATT:Most of them seem perfectly sane in A2, and you don't really get to talk to many in A3. The crazy ones are a lot of the mages and Crystal Souls. Mages of all types seem to go nuts with great frequency and most of the Crystal Souls that you encounter are not at their best. Some of the warriors are loons too. Those Crystal Souls are like skribbane: They're dangerous, yet their power is almost too much to resist. Kabraxaz was an example of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 On the other hand, some of the Vahnatai mages and Crystal Souls are among the most thoughtful, reasonable characters we see in the games. Eos-Bok and Aichael-Bok, then there's Bon-Ihrno and Bohen-Ihrno, Ublis-Ihrno, Bentis-Ka, and Prossis-Bok was a magic-user as well. What human magic-users of rank are so reasonable? Rone and Aimee, and maybe Patrick and Solberg. Mairwen. I can't think of many, yet we have encountered many more human magi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Quote: Originally written by YATT:—Alorael, who unrelatedly never really was able to reconcile everything said in A1 about the Empire's stranglehold on the teaching and use of magic and A3's ease of access to magic. Even A4 should have some mention of wizards heading into Avernum to get access to spells they can't get in the Empire. For A3, I believe the wilderness-y, edge-of-nowhere feel to Valorim is to blame. That, and once the Empire basically pulled out of the continent for the quarantine, there'd be no real point in enforcing studies which could've helped the survival of the cities. I can't imagine an Empire official in Lorelei being too concerned about unlicensed mages while simultaneously being worried about skribbane and giants, with the solid knowledge that your superiors were more than willing to watch you get slaughtered as long as the quarantine wall would hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Valorim may be the wilderness, but it has plenty of Empire officials and significant cities. Current plagues and chaos may mean a breakdown of law and order, but even then I don't think mages would have very permanent looking structures with signs advertising their unlawful services. And there's the library in Moon. Surely that's not legal? —Alorael, who thinks that the plan was changed between E1 and E3 when making magic extremely rare would have made the game less fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Lurker Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Quote: Originally written by The Lurker:There are plenty of contradictions in Spidweb games, such as Vyvnas being the mad crystal soul in A4 instead of Jekknol. Vyvnas and Jekknol were both a bit crazy in A3, but Vyvnas was crazier. Vyvnas clearly says in A4 that he is the tortured crystal soul. Anyone who played A2 knows that Jekknol was tortured, not Vyvnas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Um, my impression was that all of the crystal souls captured by the Empire were tortured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Elohi in E/A2: "Vyvnas-Bok has told us how the foul Empire tormented him, trying to elicit secrets of Vahnatai magical powers. If you had not arrived, soon he may have had to dissolve himself to keep from aiding them" on the other hand, Vyvnas himself seems quite put together: You stand in the presence of a Crystal Soul you returned. "Welcome, humans! I am glad at your presence. I am Vyvnas-Bok." Its voice is very friendly. It soothes you. The Crystal Soul sits there, waiting patiently for you to speak. You feel the warmth of its gratitude. Jekknol on the other hand: Glantris: "We thank you for returning the Crystal Soul of Jekknol-Bok to us."I2{He quivers with anger. "They tormented our ancestor's spirit! They told stories of invasions of our lands, of the death of our people! They nearly drove Jekknol mad!" And this: "The book describes the experiments performed on the Crystal Soul Jekknol-Bok by the wizards here. They have been exploring its beliefs, its magical properties, and its ability to feel pain.They have also been trying to break the creature and bend it to their will, through a combination of magic and subterfuge. The journal writer is growing nervous, however. The Crystal Soul seems to be going mad" and: You replace Jekknol on its pedestal and wait for it to awaken. For a long while, nothing happens. Then you hear in your mind "Here? Where am I? What is this place?"L2"Home? ... Who says that? ... You say I'm home? ... No, home is gone. Crushed and scattered. That is what ... no, this is another trick, my people are gone ... this is a trick. Another trick. I will not listen anymore."2And with that, there is silence. Sadly, though you have returned Jekknol-Bok to its people, its suffering seems to have not yet ended." In A3, but *not* E3, Vyvnas seems to already have gone mad. The best comparison may be the item descriptions in A2. Caffren projects "angry whispering of this being" and Jekknol projects "angry, vicious muttering of this tormented creature" while Vyvnas projects "soft, gentle whisper of the being". Honestly, Vyvnas could have been tortured enough to make him go crazy, but I think it's more likely they got mixed up at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Rotdhizon Calzone:In A3, but *not* E3, Vyvnas seems to already have gone mad. The best comparison may be the item descriptions in A2. Caffren projects "angry whispering of this being" and Jekknol projects "angry, vicious muttering of this tormented creature" while Vyvnas projects "soft, gentle whisper of the being". Honestly, Vyvnas could have been tortured enough to make him go crazy, but I think it's more likely they got mixed up at some point. Well, if that's the case, I have them mixed up too. I have a distinct recollection of meeting Vyvnas in E3 and noting that he was utterly deranged. Odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Scratch that. You're right, Thuryl, it's in E3 as well. He is just so deranged there that he mangles his own name, so my quick search didn't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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