Nobear

I have now beat A3 (version 1.0.0.9 for Mac from GoG.com) on "Torment," and the tower disaster never happened, even at day 141. This, combined with the breezy difficulty throughout the entire game compared to any of Jeff's other games, is very strong evidence that some essential flag was set to "Tough" rather than "Torment" in my save file. Judging from feedback from others, it seems very likely that this is a bug with at least the latest GoG version of A3. Unless anyone has info to the contrary, or knows how to set A3 to proper Torment difficulty on the latest GoG version, I guess we will be waiting until the remake to have a proper challenge playing a full party in this game. Oh well, at least I experienced the content and the story!

I posted before about the (lack of) difficulty on Torment for me, to the point that it literally seems no harder than Hard on A3. I don't know if this is maybe a bug with a certain version (I have the GoG one on Mac). I have even tried changing the difficulty down and back up to see if it would reset some flag to the proper value, and no dice. What day are you on, and have you experienced the Tower of Magi disaster yet? I still have not on my Torment play through, but whether it happens closer to day 100 or 160 should give some clue about whether the game is properly playing as Torment difficulty. On the plus side, the story is good, and I find a lot of depth to the game, so I enjoy it anyway for that. There are also things you can do to cripple yourself, like make a singleton or play with crippling traits, but for you I'd say either try to enjoy the story or play any of Jeff's other games which are more challenging. Then of course, there's always stepping outside and exploring the real world, and coming back to games when they seem appealing again . I go through phases like that myself. Cheers!

What is your party composition like? Do you have at least one character with high enough Priest spells to learn Move Mountains? If so, by the point you're at in the game, you should be able to talk to the mage (I forget her name) in the home fort where the game starts, and she will let you look at two spell tomes beyond a secret wall just south of her. One is for lvl 2 Far Sight, and the other for lvl 2 Move Mountains. If nobody has high enough Priest or Mage skills for these spells, I would prioritize those skills as you train your characters. I hope that helps.

Sorry for being absent for so long. I've been busy with schoolwork, so I've played very little lately. Nature Lore: It wasn't all the caches, because I hadn't been in Footracer Province yet. Now on my Hard (Tough) game I have cleared the area around the Keep of Tinraya, and gotten as far as the final stone circle with the Haakai and Mung Demons. I still haven't gotten around to that NW cache outside Footracer Province. Vahnatai Lore: Through another book/encounter/whatever, I am up to to a ridiculous 9X4 = 36 VL. That means, so far, I have had 6 in-game experiences grant VL to all my characters. I'll see how much, if any, VL needs to be bought on my Torment game. Pathfinder: I have been walking over lava left and right, and all other dangerous terrain. Not a single incident of getting hurt so far with 6X4 = 24 Pathfinder. I think it's safe to confirm it as all you need for any practical intents. I wrote in another thread that Torment didn't seem to increase the difficulty for me, and I've almost defeated the slimes in that play through. I don't know if this is a bug with my version of A3, or maybe with my particular save file, or if the Torment difference in A3 is supposed to be very minor compared to other Avernums. Cheers!

I am now playing A3 on Torment, and it seems no harder to me than on Hard (technically called Tough in A3). I'm fighting the slimes now, and they are every bit as much a joke, and seem to have no more HP and do no more damage. I've read in places that Hard doubles monster HP and damage vs Normal, and Torment doubles these things again. I've read in other places that Torment only increases monster level across the board, which may have a smaller effect (much less than double) on HP and damage, as well as higher chance for the monster to hit and lower chance to hit the monster. In yet other places, I've read that Torment gives a hidden hit to player resistances, but was that from the remakes and not the original Avernums? I honestly don't notice a difference in any of these things. Could my version be bugged, or does Torment just not make as much of a difference in A3 as in other games? Can anyone confirm what the exact differences are in A3? Thanks.

The one near New Formello in Upper Avernum. It says I feel energized. I see no difference to stats, XP, traits or energy. I was at full health, but just healing would be pretty weak. Does it do anything more significant, like confer an invisible blessing?

Nature Lore: 19 NL is enough until I reached one cache in NW Valorim near the quarantine border, and one in NE Valorim north of Tevrono that I couldn't uncover. Update: Raised NL to 22 and that was enough for the NE cache (near the guy who sells Xian's Vest), and the one near the northern Church of the Divine Lucre camp. I'll test the NW one later. Vahnatai Lore: I also think it was probably way overkill to buy 3X4 VL, because I just now destroyed the golems and met the empress, and my characters all got 5 VL just from quests and books, so 8x4 = 32 total. I'm guessing the required VL number listed in the OP is a total. I don't know if you can get any VL without first having some small number of points, but I started a Torment playthrough and I'm being more thrifty now. Pathfinder: When my party had 5X4 Pathfinder, people were still taking damage sometimes. I trained just one point more for everyone (6X4 = 24 total) and they avoid all damage now. However, I am not entirely sure whether this is entirely due to the Pathfinder, or maybe partly level based, or partly based on the fact all my characters have fairly high resistances, and fairly high Hardiness to counter encumbrance. Other observations: Things are going well for my party on Hard, which has a Slith fighter, two nephil mage/priests, and Hsska the priest, the only non-custom. The customs have Sickness Prone, the mages and Hsska have Natural Mage (I made him a mage/priest too), and the fighter has Fast on Feet. There are enough AP items at this point in the game to give my fighter extra APs and two of my casters start the fight with 6 APs. The characters are all in their 40s now. There are relatively few fights where multiple characters are taking heavy melee or single target spell damage, it seems, compared to other Spiderweb games (i.e. fewer ambushes, or maybe I'm just playing better). I did have to reload several times for the outdoor encounter with several Dark Wyrms, because a different character kept starting in the front, and I had to use 2-3 invulnerability potions for my fighter. Other stuff I'd think would be hard (lorewise) is generally a breeze, like the golems. My casters have so much magic bonus between Natural Mage, items, spell skill and Magery that Ice Lances often hits as hard as Fireblast, with only Arcane Blast pumping substantially higher numbers. I'm talking maybe 80s with Ice Lances, 80s to 100s with Lightning or Fireblast, and 140s+ with Arcane Blast against high level enemies like golems that aren't too resistant. For my new (Torment) playthrough: I see there is quite a lot to spend gold on after all, like Magery and Parry skill. This time I'm going to try to max all the non-trainable special skills before buying Silverlocke's Knowledge Brews. I will keep my eye out, however, and take special note of those alchemists who sell Knowledge Brews for cheaper (even if in smaller quantity). My goal is to avoid any exploits (like the infinite item merchant) or use of the character editor, which I have been good about so far in my Hard playthrough. I also want to end up with my whole party composed of the NPCs who join, if I unlock them at convenient times in a natural way. I'm thinking the archer will not take Natural Mage, but become an Archer/Priest/Tool User. The energy restore mind crystal can go to him later.

Reviving this old thread lol, I tested and it doesn't drain skill points either. Saving until someone can enlighten us.

Yeah I think I'm about at that point. Speaking of knowledge brews, I seem to remember some vendors offering them cheaper than Silverlocke, but is she the only one with unlimited quantity?

Thanks

When I read the hidden spell book in the Tower of Magi, it says I learned Arcane Summon but feel unhinged. Anyone know what being unhinged affects?

Alright cool, I'll prioritize capping Barter next.

I ended up spending my excess gold from the first time I got capped on 4X3 VL, which was apparently not a smart move at this point in the game (still haven't solved the third monster plague). I then visited the city (I forget the name) with the house and the Barter trainer for the first time, and I bought potion recipes (I'm a completionist) and was only able to afford 10 Barter and not the house after that. So, this play through is a learning process to time my purchases more effectively for my Torment play through.

From my playing so far, I haven't encountered a need for any VL, and I am now gold-capped (well, holding onto one item which would put me over). This is on Hard difficulty, no cheats or character editor. I have finished the slimes and cockroaches, and done southeastern Valorim as far north as Vahkohs, though I'm not strong enough for the Mad Monks or the Drake Lord yet. I've even been storing my spell books and Xian items. I have not bought any L2 spells, because I find I don't need them. I have been fine using L1s until I get L3s. So, in a practical sense, I'd say you don't need to worry about VL at all until you have nothing better to spend your money on. I will probably buy 4X2 levels of VL and go from 4X5 to 4X10 Pathfinder next, mostly to avoid becoming gold-capped. As for NL, I trained to 15 NL in my party early on, and so far (based on the areas I've explored as described above), the only places where this isn't high enough are one outdoor herb patch north of the Nephilim village and east of the Drake Lord in SE Valorim, and another outdoor herb patch on the last island of the chain that has basilisks. Now I've got 19 NL and will see if I can get those. Update: corrected this post. My NL values were 15 and then 19. 19 got me a gray mold patch north of the Nephilim village, and a mandrake patch at the end of the lost isles chain with the basilisk.

Yeah, it's my first time playing A3 past the demo, so I have no evidence that there are any special encounters based on Vahnatai Lore. Just thought there might be, given how Jeff thinks in his other games. You know, unless I cap my gold, I think I'll hold off buying VL until I need it, then tell you how much I needed.

So how much Vahnatai Lore do you need to read those special spell books, or for any other things like special encounters?

That's what I meant. Useful to know, thanks.

Ok. Well I can confirm that 5X4 points does still get me poisoned, but much more rarely. I'm wearing pilgrim's cloak which brings my front character to 7. I'll let you know if he gets poisoned by terrain.

There's an A2 guide which says there's a Pathfinder learning crystal which makes it only necessary to buy 5 points for 3 characters and 2 for one character (17 points total). How many should you buy in A3?

Dang, I guess I was justifiably skeptical about that synergy, and now have a non-ideal character with Tool Use. Oh well, thanks Nikki, and Mikus for all the other info. I am planning to eventually replay the game on Torment anyway. I usually do my first play through on Hard because of things like this, and then Torment when I have better seen the full picture to properly min-max and optimize.

Ok thanks, never saw that specified.

If you have a mage without the Natural Mage trait, and you give it encumbering armor, but you get your encumbrance to 0 by increasing Hardiness, will you be able to cast mage spells above slow or not? Trying to decide whether to make Hsska a Natural Mage (raising his mage spells as he levels so he is priest/mage), or whether the XP penalty isn't worth it.

I just started on Hard, and I can say the earliest enemies (goblins and bandits) are ridiculously easy. The shambler and the later chitrach waves in upper avernum are the first things that have posed even a slight challenge for me so far. I think the difficulty curve might make the game get harder as it goes, rather than easier (like the recent remakes if you min-max).

Nevermind, it's still there >.>. Yeah, it doesn't happen in combat because you don't hold the mouse down in combat. It happens randomly, maybe every 1/10th time you hold your mouse down to move multiple squares at a time. Oh well, I'm hooked enough by now to deal with it LOL.

I can't find the answer to this anywhere else: does Elite Warrior affect both melee and pole weapons, and what about bows and thrown?