The Reverend

Wasn't woad an item in Nethergate?

Speaking of which, I'm surprised nobody chose that for the OP's question ...

Since all 3 games happen on somewhat medieval age I guess toilets are non-existant so you'd need to use pot to make your "needs", rich ppls might have outdoor wc-closet. No plumbing anywhere.

Maybe this is something X could work on, rather than his silly anvil-flinging spell - it seems that the people of Avernum would be much more appreciative ...

The ASA (Avernum Security Agency) must be monitoring the facebook and twitter feeds of all adventures:

"OMG I just wasted the slith king FTW #onlygoodslithisadeadslith #adventurersrule"

Avernum ... I've always wanted to see what's so great about that Almarian wine.

Did this (or the other mod) do any quest/encounter re-balancing? There are a few encounters in the core game that seem to be far more difficult than they should be relative to the level you receive them (a prime example would be the Fire Lizard quest from Bronwen in Fort Remote - I greatly struggled to complete that fight even on Normal, let alone torment), so I thought some of those might have been fixed as well.

Some of the quests that you can potentially receive early are not meant to be done until you are a higher level. The open-world nature of Avernum makes this sort of thing almost inevitable. In some of Jeff's later games he was better about providing warnings in the dialogue, or even in some cases not issuing quests until you were a certain level. But A:EFTP is a remake of a remake of his first real game (Exile I), so it is easier to end up in those types of situations.

In general, if a quest seems to hard when you first attempt it, the best thing to do is come back and try again when you have gained a few levels. It can make a huge difference.

Check in your special items (things like the brooches appear there rather than in your regular inventory).

Edit: The special item list is accessible from the same window as your journal and quest log, IIRC.

Nope, this was a thing in Nethergate and the original Avernum Trilogy.

Wow, so I'm not hallucinating (for once)?! Sweet!!

The forced stat increase every level comes from beta testing of Avadon: The Black Fortress where min/max power gamers used both points for dexterity to make characters that were almost immune to some attack types.

Even with that change, dexterity ended up way overpowered in Avadon 1 - (arguably) the best offensive stat for two classes and the best defensive stat for every class. DEX heavy shadowwalkers and blademasters seemed too powerful. Hopefully it'll be a bit more balanced in Avadon 2. I guess we'll find out this fall!

You can move in 8 directions all the games with the Nethernum engine, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I seem to have a vague recollection of one of the older engines/games also allowing you jump off ledges (and killing oyu if the drop was too large), but the more I think about it, the more I think I'm completely imagining this/making it up in my own head ... Ah, the joys of ageing ...

Excellent review - I agree with many of your points, especially about the hit point based scripting. A few comments...

-The character system felt really lackluster for the most part. You basically have to put vast majority of your allocatable points into the stat that governs your attack, or you're almost totally gimped since you cannot hit anything. And because of this you cannot realistically have a character that's good or even decent at 2 different kinds of attacks. Which is boring. So basically I felt like there's not much to pick but a single path on the tree to follow, plus deciding who in the party puts points into the utility skills. A priest-warrior tank was the only sensible "multiclass" build I could think of, putting points into endurance/strength and you can use the priest spells which dont target enemies (healing and summoning) pretty well (since they dont have to-hit rolls), plus able to take a lot of damage.

 

Also when everyone gets the unallocatable stat points and extra hp and mp on every level up, it homogenises things a lot. Eventually everyone gets enough strength that the weight limits of equipment aren't any problem, and everyone ends up with enough hp that nothing can 1shot them even if they never allocated points into Endurance.

 

Now for example if dexterity increased melee attack accuracy, missile accuracy, and evasion, and strength increased melee attack accuracy, melee attack damage, and missile attack damage, and equipment weight allowance, they'd both be valuable to both a mainly melee and mainly archer character. And intelligence If you'd get 2 stat points each level up to allocate as you wish, (but not both in same stat maybe), there'd be much more choice. And HP and MP not increasing unless you specifically allocated points to intelligence/endurance, so you'd actually need to do that.

I agree that it would be nice if there was more incentive to raise multiple stats. However, I will say that the game is quite beatable even on torment without allocating the "vast majority" of your points to your primary attack stat (I realize that is the standard advice, but I don't think it's necessary). RBD beat torment with the self-imposed restriction of not allocating more than half his points to any stat (I believe there is a link to an account of his playthrough, and his character builds, in Strategy Central). And my preferred build on torment is 2/3 primary attack stat, 1/3 endurance (still a majortiy, but not necessarily a "vast majority"). With the reduced effectiveness of hardiness and armor on torment (due to the 30% penalty), I find extra endurance to be more useful on torment than on hard or lower.

-Offensive items almost always seemed like a waste of time. They just didn't seem to do much, compared to using items that affect your party or using normal attacks - not worht the action points it'd taken to use them, so ended up just selling them mostly.

They can be useful in the early game when your party's damage is relatively weak, but yes, after getting to around level 6 or 7 I rarely used them.

-The above points combined make the game in a way, a bit too linear - there's a hard limit often in where you can go, based on just whether you'll get one-shotted or not. Of course I'm not saying you should be able to go anywhere anytime. But if you didn't get so much free HP on levelup, the enemies wouldn't have to scale their damage, to-hit, and hp just to compensate the automatic increases the player gets each level. If you'd only receive the single stat point, and the skill increases, the monsters wouldn't have to scale to that, and you'd have more freedom on where you can go - and if there'd be more powerful, but limited use items like offensive wands, you would have more freedom still - but with a price of using up those stuffs faster, the tougher the area you're in.

This is mostly true, but you can sometimes visit some areas earlier than intended. The main trick I've used is to position my party such that they can lure the boss' minions away, and take them on before taking on the boss. Taking on bosses by themselves can sometimes make them more manageable for a lower-than-intended-level party - especially if you can spread your characters out, and either spread return life scrolls amoungst all your characters, or else keep your main healer out of the room so they will always stay alive to cast return life.

-Enemy boss scripts shouldn't be tied to their HP so often. For example the slith boss on the island, with the slimes in the corridor - the fight was much easier once you figure out not to hit the leader unless you're out of other targets, so you avoid fighting the slimes at the ssame time as the

Yes!! I 100% agree - changing this would make the game more strategically interesting.

Nicely done! And thinks for putting together a list of the tips and strategies you used. It's a great addition to A:EFTP knowledge base.

Nethergate: Resurrection is a great game, but with a different feel than other Spiderweb games.

The Geneforge series is very unique - I've never played another game like it. The first couple games (especially the first) have somewhat dated engines though, but if you can get past that (try the demo and see), they are a lot of fun. Great stories (I even liked G3, although some don't).

A:ETFP and Avadon have the most modern engine, if that's a concern for you. Exile was my introduction to Spiderweb, so I'll always be somewhat partial to the world of Exile/Avernum. Avadon is fun too, though, and you can look forward to the sequel coming out later this year.

Reading this over, I guess it wasn't terribly helpful. Basically, I'd say play them all.

like the other tow games.

Like "Tow Truck Tycoon"?

The reason he reminds me of a jester is that you damage his minions and then he goes into a fit of laughter. You damage them again, he does the same. Eventually he gets tired of the fact that his jokes aren't funny and lowers his protecion defenses. You can beat him then and prove that his jokes are lame. Thats probably my fav part of the game.

I think of jesters as typically being very intelligent people, who use their humor to manipulate/control the situation. Of course that may just be based on all the Shakespeare I read in high school.

King Hawthorne's laughter seems very different - more like the laugh of someone who is mad/drunk with power. Lowering his defenses goes along with this - he's convinced himself that it won't matter because he believes himself to be invinceable.

I'm interested, but realistically I probably don't have enough time to devote to it in the near-term. Perhaps it'd be better for me to just observe, and maybe join a future instance of the game (or substitute if someone needs to drop out part way through).

The most accurate answer is that I listen to what my daughters are playing, whether I want to or not.

My four year old daughter loves Hendrix. If I've done anything right as a father, it's that.

Oldbie Midbie and Newbie depend on Age of being here is what I thought...

I've always thought of those in terms of a combination of age and experience. I think of a "newbie" as someone lacking both, and an "oldbie" as someone having a great deal of both. And everyone else is somewhere in the middle. But those terms may have different connotations here ...

The Newbies rule you all. Remember that.

Anyone whose post count requires 4 digits can hardly be called a "newbie" ... Not necessarily an "oldbie", but at least a "midbie".

When I say I listen to all genres of music, I mean it. Even country and rap, the traditional exclusions, and even the more obscure things like the occasional Gregorian chant. My preferred music, though, changes based on my mood, and usually alternates between pop while I'm in the car; indie rock/pop if I'm cheery; EDM if I want to dance or am excited; classical, punk, or alternative rock if I'm angry or enthused; and anything else if the mood strikes me.

I knew a guy in high school who only liked country and rap. I once listened to a mix tape he made (do the young 'uns even know what those are anymore??) that was basically Snoop Dogg and Garth Brooks. The transitions were .... interesting.

Wait a second, is this normal? One stat is well known to be completely broken and it isn't fixed between games? I was almost POSITIVE that Avadon 2 would rebalance the stats...

They often are fixed. For example, parry in Geneforge 2, versus later Geneforges. I suspect it will be at least somewhat more balanced in Avadon 2.

Why would you say such awful things? Avernum will never compare to the original Exiles.

The games aren't the same, but I think all that was meant was that the story is similar enough that you could plausibly use the same soundtrack for both.

Second trilogy has a lower average damage for range attacks over melee weapons.

I don't recall the exact numbers (and it's been a while since I played), but I seem to remember archery being very powerful in A4.

Would you say the same of the 2nd Avernum Trilogy? Avernum EFTP is gung ho on melee but some spots are useful to have archers/or an extra magic user. I don't know about the 2nd trilogy though as the only one that is gung ho on ranged combat is 4. Although there are a number of areas where having a dedicated missile weapons expert is useful in Avernum 5. The bandit fortress with all the turrets and a number of the other mid game fights seem to point that having one is needed or almost mandatory. Especially going up close with the slimes. If you have one melee take the edge, while the rest of the party pelts them, thats 2-3 characters that don't need healing.

I played all of the second trilogy games with a pretty standard 4 character party - 1 mage, 1 priest, and either 2 fighters (typically 1 w/ sword and 1 w/ pole) or 1 fighter and 1 archer. With those parties my priest was mostly focused on healing and other restorative actions.

I didn't really start playing around with party variations until A:EFTP, and so that's where I have experience with truly offensive oriented priests. It might be fun to go back and try things like that in some of the older games, but I doubt I'll get time to do that before Avadon 2 comes out.

With Hawthorne you had to motor every step of the way because of the endlessly respawning Royal Guards, Mages, etc. And the respawning wasn't even a matter of "you killed mob A, so A will respawn in x turns." It was "here's mob A, mob B's coming in x turns whether you like it or not, and so is mob C, and D, etc." And then you had to attack golems which blasted the entire room with those novas. If slow doesn't work, it gets nasty.

I found having a priest (or priests) with level 2+ divine retribution was really effective here - at level 2 DR adds a slowing effect on all enemies, and the golems seemed fairly vulnerable to it, even on torment. It also does a lot of damage to a lot of bunched up enemies (which tends to happen in the throne room), especially if you pair it up with an Andrenaline rush so you can cast it 3+ times (and this also gives you 3 chances to slow).

I actually find the surface exit to be the easiest of the three, and usually do it first - but there isn't a big difference in difficulty between that and Grah-Hoth, and I could easily see others finding Grah-Hoth to be the easiest. And with Grah-Hoth you don't have to deal with the annoying perpetual darkness ...

Hawthorne is generally considered the hardest, though, and I definitely concur.