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The "first love's gifts" quest first of all. I got that guy's quest 10 or 15 hours back in terms of gaming time, and have not seen any sorts of "strange" or "experimental" plants to run back to him. Clue?

I also never found the papers you're supposed to find and burn in Goldcrag for Wallace. As far as I know I went through the whole city top to bottom.

If it's a joke I have no idea what the joke is. It's obviously a mistake. "The cows stare at you, uncowed" is a joke. This isn't.

I think what compounds it here is that it's so easy to miss the quest in the first place. The thing is that the game doesn't let you use the trap door in Camp Nightshade when you first find it, but (unlike most initially inaccessible areas) there's nothing that ever calls your attention back to it.

Yes. I never thought to go into the underground cells when I was first at Nightshade. I only popped down into it when I'd gone back to have Nicodemus craft something, when all the Hands were already at the Green Refuge.

Maybe someone has mentioned this already, I don't see it in topics, but Scorched Greaves give a +1 to Focus Mastery, the Sorceror skill. Sorcerers can't wear the greaves.

Maybe rather than deleting the quest, let someone who's left tell you he's dead so Hanna can end up hating the Pact even more?

Her brother Miklosh? I've looked through the whole Stead, no sign and no dialogue about him.

Thanks.

I sure don't see four stone circles that form a square on the map...

I've been through the cave and the Wretch base without finding a passageway that leads to the NE part of the map where the quest to meet the rebels continues. I'm a little too impatient to search both again. Clue me in?

Do we have a verdict on this? Should I only up DEX for my tinkermage and never give her turret craft points?

It was open when I went by for a second pass. I could swear it was closed the first time I looked at it.

Also, what's with the lightning field inside that "traps" you? After Daum and his cohorts leave the room I just walked through it, doesn't matter. Got shock damage but you're healing at the same rate out of combat, so it meant nothing.

No... it isn't.

Ok, once I've explored the whole region, how can I get inside the fortress to where the map marker shows that the Khemerian Council quest continues? Been everywhere I can think of to try to get in.

Nice to know that people finished the game the first day it was out... doubt I'll finish it for months.

...that Jeff would have incorporated your character's class into the dialogue this time.

"I'm Nathalie. I'm a sorceror. That means I can rain death on our enemies from afar... but you're a sorceror too, so you know how this works. Let's talk shop!"

But, no. Whatever "you" are, same as previously, the other characters have no idea.

It's really a pretty big gap in storytelling. Always keeps me from getting as engaged in the game as I might have.

Also, while it's nice to see Khalida and Nathalie again, putting them in the party makes no sense. Even if you hadn't played the previous two games, they both tell you about their years of experience and combat prowess. They wouldn't begin as level 1 characters.

Yeah it's at that link, but it's not on the "Our Games" page yet.

There's strategy threads up here but there's no demo download link on Jeff's main site.

Is the game available?

I've been everywhere inside the thing as far as I can tell, killed every golem, opened all the boxes, but Oliver in Blosk doesn't have anything to tell me the quest is done. What could I be missing?

This thread is much less interesting when it's arguments for "who would win?" than it is when it's a discussion of various factors that would play into the battles between the 3.

They're one and the same.

They haven't been. The first one's amounted to "I say these guys win because they have X factor or X character and I say that's the best." It's zero-sum and doesn't go anywhere. You can agree or disagree -- so what?

Discussing how the battles stack up and how X effect or character could be levied against the other powers -- more interesting.

So where do all three of these global powers fight? Are they all ripped from their planets and transported to some kind of Q-Bert planet or a 3-D chess board or what?

Uh huh. Yup.

This thread is much less interesting when it's arguments for "who would win?" than it is when it's a discussion of various factors that would play into the battles between the 3.

...another change I would like to see (I'm sure I'm not the only one) is endings that are REALLY different from each other. The A2 endings are an improvement on A1, but to some degree they're still just text cut-n-pasted in different orders based on the choices you've made. Which doesn't really make for a satisfying conclusion to the story. If you choose to aid Dheless and tell Redbeard that before you kill him, then as Keeper what kind of sense does it make for you to "swell the barracks of the Black Fortress with excellent recruits?" When Hanvar's Council comes calling for you to step down, why would Avadon support you when you obviously aren't winning the war against the Tawon? If you're not Keeper and you slaughtered the Grey Raptor outpost, when they come for your head how would "your position in the Black Fortress" protect you? It didn't protect Yoshiria. That's 3 examples, there's probably a dozen more to be found by anyone who's played all the different permutations.

Oh... and seriously... if you rat on all your companions to Heart Callan, I think they should... notice that you did that?

Many Hands, Eyes and Hearts could probably benefit from a good long session on the couch after taking all those bribes and playing all that Open Arms Within / Stone Wall Without jazz.

WW2 - good analogy.

The question of if the Empire could form a real alliance with Avernum to fight the Shapers and Pact is interesting. Would they have a War Council with the king of Avernum and the Emperor in the same room? To what degree could they trust each other? In terms of political turmoil (and of real fear and hatred of those who have been seen as enemies for many years) that would have to be somehow settled, at least nominally, before each game world could go offensive against the other 2 - the Pact/Avadon would have a slight edge here.

...at least if we look at Pact/Avadon during A1. Which for the purposes of this thread I guess we have to: during Warborn it sounds like it's gonna be full-out world war between Pact and Tawon, so this sort of alliance would be impossible.