SpaceCadetHX

Thanks for the info, that helps.

Of course I do not support slavery or genocide in real life. At no point in my discussion was I referring to anything but this game world. I don't think you should compare the issues because, as you can see, they can be very different given when seen from another point of view. I compare creations directly to tools. We create Hammers and Nails for a specific purpose. The Shapers do the exact same thing but in a different form (magical). Just because that creation can think and feel doesn't mean it is still not just a tool for a specific purpose. You said the Awakened were not a threat to the Shapers. I don't see it that way. By definition, the Awakened are exactly what the Shapers do not want to happen under any situation regarding creations. How can that not be a threat to the Shapers as a whole?

Quote: If a creation was born naturally, then a Shaper did not create it. Should it be killed simply becuase it had parents and the fact that the Shapers cant control its every action, simply due to the fact that it might be dangerous? Im sure the Awakened were comforted to know that when they were killed off, despite being peaceful. That is exactly right, if you allow a simple act like that to go unpunished and uncorrected then you invite worse and worse acts from your creations. I can not see any reason why a Shaper should do anything but command his own creation. They are not his children so I don't understand that comparison either. I don't view my Plated Clawbugs as my 2 sons. Lastly, I wouldn't classify the Awakened as "peaceful". The Barrier of the Winds was meant for war.

I did some reading about this spell in the manual and walkthrough and I can't seem to find an answer. When you cast Augmentation, does it always increase your HP by a set value every time or does the number of Hit Points granted increase as you increase your Endurance? Additionally, does improving your "Healing Craft" value have an additional impact on this spell?

Originally Posted By: Triumph Creations that are *just* animals deserve the same treatment as any ordinary dog or horse or capybara. That excludes boundless cruelty, but does mean something different than what people deserve. This is things like fyoras. But the serviles and drayks seem to me to be people, albeit not normal humans, and deserving of different treatment than animal-like treatment the Shapers bestow. I disagree, how do you judge what creations to be deserving of fair treatment? Should we not use a living tool on a door because we could possibly be offending it and causing it pain and hardship? Perhaps that Living Tool wanted to be used on a golem instead? Where do you draw the line with creations? In my opinion, creations are just that, creations. Doesn't matter if it is a servile with intelligence or a clip of Thorns for a Baton. Creations were made to do the bidding of the Shapers who made them.

Originally Posted By: FnordCola Why? A drayk has the same capacity to think, feel, and suffer that a human produced from biological birth does. Also, what about drayks and serviles who are born, rather than created? Neither species is sterile. Even if we assume (though God alone knows why we would) that a Shaper should be allowed absolute control over a servile s/he Shapes, does this apply to that servile's son, grandson and so on ad infinitum? I would say that the problem with creations making new creations by using magic or biology falls under the "dangerous" category. Those creations were not made to breed, they were made for whatever task needed to get done. Yes, a Shaper should have absolute control over whatever he creates and maintains. If creations go rogue, escape or do something they were not intended to do, it should be dealt with before the creation/s can become dangerous and harmful to everyone else.

Originally Posted By: FnordCola That just...wow. To invoke an analogy that gets a lot of play in the games: should a parent have the right to kill or enslave their adult offspring on a whim? I would say there is a huge difference in a shaper killing his child who was born biologically and a creation what was made through magical means. I don't see how or why the creation should be equal to a real child.

The way I see it, Shapers have the power and/or knowledge to create things where there was nothing before. It doesn't really matter what they want that creation to do, from battle to common tasks. There is no reason creations should be independent just because they can develop the same knowledge to make thier own creations and use magic. That said, Shapers are in the right to destroy any creations that do not obey the law or could be dangerous if left alone.

Thanks a lot. I can't believe I missed it after looking for so long. Usually I am exremely good at finding things like that. Turns out there were 2 vats in that room with a Battle Beta and a gaahlk, they dropped some itesm worth a few hundred coins so it was worth it. Thanks again.

All pro-rebel children will deal with my plated clawbugs. ps - Dragon Warrior may be the coolest game of all time. I can still recall farming gold from "Goldman" for hour and hours.

Kss-Urg's Valley has a room at the top corner right side. There is what looks like one of the sliding doors you need to get close to before it opens. I cannot get this door to open. Am I missing a lever or some other device or can you not get in this room at all?

I dunno, on one level the game is family friendly to kids but if your kid should happen to growup and become rich and have his own mansion and servants he might have a bad opinion of serviles and that could mean trouble.....

I believe you guys about all the test and stuff but this just seems like such a crazy coincidence that the one time I decide to use Luck these things start to happen with such frequency. Oh well, maybe I am just that lucky. I can't wait to get my double Plated Clawbug attackers! Going to go through the entire game with those 2 guys.

I have recently had to restart my Geneforge 2 game from the beginning because of some computer problems and I decided to try a different route with my Shaper. I pumped up his Luck stat at the beginning figuring to get the most benefit as possible at low levels and see what happens. I can say that after clearing the first 7 areas, I have noticed a huge difference in the drops from monsters. I have gotten some items I never knew were in the game like (Fyoraskin Cloak and Fyoraskin Shield) just to name a few off the top of my head. Additionally, I am seeing random item drops from the lowest level monsters who I have NEVER seen drop anything before. Some of the items dropping from Fyora's, Thada's and even rats have been coins, rings, shields, wands and gems. As many times as I have played this game, I have never seen these things drop before and I now believe firmly that the "Luck" stat is very under appreciated by many players. Also, call me crazy and a waste of time but I am compiling a list of items and the sell prices that shop keepers offer for the items. It is making the game much more fun for me and I enjoy this type of meticulous data gathering. I have done some testing in past games to see if joining/leaving sects effects the selling price on items and from what I can see it does not. However, being in a sect does have an effect on the price if you BUY am item but it does not seem to change if you sell an item. I will do further tests to re-confirm. If this item list is good enough, whatever moderator/s may want to post it with the game above so new players can see what is valuable and what is not. Just a though.

Originally Posted By: Master1 If his hit % is a problem, add into his dext. According to the Creation Guide, STR increases Damange and Chance to Hit 5% DEX increases Chance to Avoid Attack 5%

Originally Posted By: Mod. Quote: Additional question, I want my Shaper to act a little faster in combat since my DEX is only at 2. I was wondering which skill would have more effect to let me act faster: DEX or Quick Action? Unless you have a very melee based shaper (which isn't very efficient use of skillpoints), go with dexterity. Quick action can give you a chance of a second hit with a melee weapon, but unless you use melee a lot, its not worth the skill points. Dexterity on the other hand is the same skill point cost regardless of class, and it will give you a boost to your missile accuracy, and well as your ability to dodge them. So quick action is pretty much a waste of skill points for a shaper. I am not melee based at all and the only reason I ask is because everywhere I read it says both Quick Action and DEX make you act faster in combat. I was just wondering if anyone knew which has more of an impact on the combat sequence. I am leaning towards putting a few points into DEX but figured to ask the pro's before investing. Naturally, it would be a huge advantage for me to act before my creations by casting spells if possible, or if I need to run away and save my life. It is very annoying when enemies come right after me when all those meaty creations are on the front lines! ps - The Plated Clawbug is performing wonderfully. He completely wrecks things when he hits. Granted, his hit % is still the main problem but I am pumping points into STR to help offset that. When he hits things 2 times in a row, they just die. He can also take damage very well since he has natural armor plus a boost from my ring. (Projection Band - +7 Armor) He could use more Health in general so I will have to get some points into Endurance as time goes on. So far, he is outstanding.

Sorry about that, I missed it in the manual. However, I just found Girdle of Strength +1 Str +1 Str of Creations I am going to use that instead of the other belts as it seems to help me more in combat since I have a pretty large essence pool. Additional question, I want my Shaper to act a little faster in combat since my DEX is only at 2. I was wondering which skill would have more effect to let me act faster: DEX or Quick Action?

Right now I have 2 good belts and I don't know what 1 of the effects does..... Student's Belt +1 Intelligence +1 Levels Damage in Combat What exactly does +1 Levels Damage in Combat do?? The other belt in question is: Girdle of Insight +1 Intelligence +1 Intelligence of all Creations

All I can really say is what is happening in my game and as of last night it happened 2 times in a row when I started the level. I attacked the Ghosts at the front and soon enough the Spectres came calling. The 3rd time, I made the ghosts attack me by getting Crystals and no specters came. Who knows, could be a glitch or something.

Originally Posted By: Xoid Originally Posted By: SpaceCadetHX Appreciate you looking that up in your game or wherever you managed to find it online. Quickly loaded the Research Hall script, copied the relevant section, pasted it to Shanti's dialogue in the entry valley and fired up a new game. Took all of thirty seconds. No prob. As for the plated clawbug idea? I've been meaning to get around to trying a mixed group with a levelled up plated clawbug backbone. I'm of the opinion that the extra two AP they get should make each levelled up plated clawbug a downright deadly critter, especially for the essence cost. I'd love an update on how it performs. I am anxious to see how it does as well. Like you said, it has 2 AP and also has respectable armor (8) so I hope it does well in the late game. Mostly, I think they are pretty cool creatures and have a unique attack sound so I like them a lot. I assume with enough points into STR the low attack rating can be offset a little. Right now, my main concern is getting money and essence as quickly as possible while trying NOT to clear that many levels/quests. I want to simply create my party so everyone can benefit from the experience gained from kills/quests. I need the money to buy Create Clawbug 2 times, then use the Create Clawbug book in Sharon's Grove. I already have enough essense to create the Plated Clawbug (59) but I have to get 75 more essence and 1600 Gold to create my first Dryak and that isn't very far away at this point either. My thinking is that Dryak's are already really strong so whenever I manage to get the Essence and cash for them, it will already be strong enough. The clawbug however, I want that thing ASAP so I can level it up as much as possible. I did the same with my Thahd and Cryoa and had both created when I had only cleared 2 levels so they are leveling up nicely.

Originally Posted By: Xoid Prices should be 'very reasonable' if you're with the right faction, otherwise they'll be exorbitant. Create Drayk will cost 1600 at the lower price. NB: aligning with the faction in question will prevent you ever being able to align with its diametric opposite, which is the reason I always avoided joining it despite the much needed training. You can always join the faction that earns you a discount at the Upper Research Halls at a later date... Thanks for that, around 1600 gold should be just right for what I am trying to do. Appreciate you looking that up in your game or wherever you managed to find it online. I know how to join the Servants then go to the Upper Research Halls and get access to the spell and the discounted price but I had no idea how much to save. Call me crazy but my plan is to make my "party" of creations as early as possible and then level them up and try and beat the game that way. As of right now I only have a Thadh and a Cryoa but will soon be adding a Plated Clawbug and then a Dryak followed by a 2nd Dryak. After that, the final creation would be much later in the game when I can create a Rotgroth.

Kind of an off the wall question but I am trying to prepare as best I can for the immediate future of my game. Does anyone recall or know how much it costs to train Dryak at the Upper Research Halls? In everything I have read, it says you can be trained cheaply in this skill if you are aligned correctly. I am trying to save every last coin but didn't know the price.

Originally Posted By: botski After getting done with G1 (and loving it) I am having a heck of a time getting through G2. I am a level 23 shaper and am in the Crystal Caverns attempting to talk to the Drayk(sp?) so I can join the awakened. However, I must have done something in there earlier in the game to piss off the Icy Spectors and they slay my party with EASE before I can get close to the Drayk. These Spectors have something like 530 HP and my battle Alphas each have a 5% chance of hitting them. I dont have a prayer at all. Is there a way to reset certain areas like the Caverns so I can continue with the game? I am dying way too ofter in G2 and not making much progress. thanks! I have come across the same Icy Spectors in my new game and the reason they are there is because you intentionally forced combat with other (Neutral) ghosts in the caverns. You are probably well past this part but if you remember, the ghosts only become hostile if you picked a crystal from a spire and the ghost was close to this act, otherwise they would remain neutral. I would always try and have a few ghosts around before I robbed a crystal so I could fight them and get the experience. However, if you force attack any of the ghosts the Icy Spectors will come after you and like you said, they are extremely tough. As for making an area reset, I am not sure if you can edit the game some way but I have my own method that seems to work just fine. Whenever I enter a new area I make a new saved game called something like "Crystal Caverns Start". That way if I make a mistake I can just reset the area and do it again. I use a seperate saved game called "Combat Save" for my progress inside the map.

I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly about some items and the relation to creations. I wanted to know if you always needed to keep some items equiped for the effect or if they are just for creation only. I know charms need to just be in my inventory to have effects. For example, my thinking is that items like the Roamertooth Band should only be used BEFORE you create a fire based creation so you get added levels from the start? After the creation is made, take the band off and replace it with something useful because the creature level will not change once the band is taken off?? The Projection Band gives some resistance and +7 to armor for all creations. I assume this is NOT related to having the band equiped when you "make" new creations. As in, if you are wearing the band, all creations instantly get 7 armor and resistance and when you take it off they lose the same benefits?? Am I thinking correctly?

I have version 1.0.1 and I see the latest version is 1.0.2 Where or what do I need to do in order to get the new version? I paid for my copy of Geneforge 2 and don't really want to buy the same game again just to get a patch. I looked on the main pages and all that is avaliable is to download the demos in 1.0.2. I tried to E-Mail Spiderweb and the E-mail reply I got from Spiderweb just directed me to the download demo page. Will downloading the demo update my game to 1.0.2? I am really confused