Nim

G1&2 had d8 for melee (ignore that at least G1 says d7, someone here did some digging and it is d8) which is 4,5 avg and G3 has d4 = 2,5 avg. 2,5 of 4,5 is 5/9 or 0,5555.....

Does that make sense ?

Edit: And boy did the Guardian get nerffed in G3. Not only was Parry toned down, sword damage got cut exactly in half. They're playable, but I'd peg them as the worst class in all the Geneforge games.

Melee damage got cut to 5/9.

And I pronounce it Genie-Forge.

I always pronounced it Jen-eh-forge, even though Gene-Forge probably makes more sense.

I'm really not sure what exactly you mean by

to have less often the same effect as one alone.....even if it was 7 high damage lower tier creations with high damage would prolly cost the same) so the cost doesnt matter much

could you reword that maybe ?

As a shaper essence isnt that big of an issue

Essence is certainly an issue early to mid-game when you can't just put all skillpoints into intelligence and skip out on creation skills, leadership, mechanics, healing, mental and blessing magic. Well you could I guess

Stuff about creations .....Only other worthwhile was poor wording i realise. But its not too far from the truth. Its not a sure thing again though. In the end it is based on the player's own experience.

So much simpler to look at facts http://spiderwebforu...-long-analysis/

Liking Glaahks is fine. Saying they are the only other worthwhile creation apart from Vlish in G3 is not

 

And what Slarty just said.

Exactly. Which is why i think agents deserve the best spot there. The health isnt handicapped. And they dont need essence.

What kind of agent doesn't need essence ?

So the only other worthwhile creation is the glahk in g3.

Are you serious ? The only thing a glaahk has going for it is its stun ability, melee damage is lousy in G3 and with the old ap system I can't see why you wouldn't always prefer ranged creations.

With guardians i agree. I finished the game with one. Not enough essence for a decent team and ablosutelly worthless with spells. Am i wrong or did they lowered even further the energy scaling for them?

The scaling is the same in G1-3, guardians get 1/3 the spellenergy of agents.

This is not entirely true. Guardians are *unquestionably* the most powerful class in G2 (the Parry mechanic when first introduced turned out to be a little over the top).

The most powerful defensively sure. Which matters only when you get hit a lot. I don't see how they can keep up to par offensively with a shaper tho, not sure about battle magic agents.

Oh, and yes, the name is gene-forge, not jenna-forge.

Please not that discussion again

This is part of the ending when you only do the "Locate Zakary, Locate Barzahl and Find Shanti quests".

 

Upload to imgur and then paste link here ?

Triola doesn't matter. Iirc the Awakened can be completely ignored in the unaligned ending.

 

This is Ghaldrings faction guide.

http://spiderwebforu...in-geneforge-2/

https://app.box.com/shared/e099rcyq0c

 

 

Reaction of the Barzites to indiscretions:

- Sabotaging in the radiant college and/or killing both researchers results in Rising turning hostile. However, Gheth remains friendly. - Leaving the Barzites results in the merchants in Gheth refusing to sell to you.

- Being a member of the Takers makes Rising hostile.

- Killing Barzhal makes Rising and Gheth hostile.

 

 

So it sounds like you messed up somewhere with killing Barzahl.

Can't you just pull them one by one out of the room ?

Nice post about the damn Traks, idonotexist42. Just to add, wiping out all who can shape and all knowledge wouldn't work. That would set the clock back to before the protoshapers on Sucia discovered shaping. You'd have to remove the possiblity to shape from the universe. And good luck with that

 

Slarty, was Alwan that bad re mindfulness of consequences ? The only thing I remember is that he may have turned a blind eye to what Koerner was doing in G5 ? Iirc he was fine in G4.

If you compare the Awakened to the other sects, aside from the pure loyalist shapers, they're still the least reckless about using shaping compared to the Takers and Barzites.

Least reckless when compared to 2 crazy factions doesn't mean a lot. And really, all their shaping efforts are made by one crazy shaper who is growing madder with each canister. That's still a recipe for disaster.

The Awakened ending depicts the Barrier of the Wind working essentially perfectly so presumably their Drakons were designed to be more obedient and less intelligent, more like a normal creation than the "Drayks on Steroids" we encounter elsewhere. Compare this to the Barzite's creations that they could barely control (needed the buzzy rod thingy) or the Takers just creating whatever random monsters they felt like and sending them off to wreak havoc, the Awakened still come out as the sane ones.

More likely Jeff simply went for the feelgood ending and ignored the contradictions to ingame happenenings. See also the Barzite ending. How much fun would it be if you help the awakened and they lose control of their drakons who then take over. Or as a barzite you simply go crazy.

You can't say "oh the barrier was a bad idea that could never work"

Who said that ? The barrier can work assuming you make damn sure the drakons are under absolute control. Judging from the the drakon you have to get rid of in the barrier, the other factions results with drakons and later games the odds for that seem slim though.

I can see that telling you to use the Geneforge may have been a poorly thought out idea, since the awakened didn't' really even know what it did, but there is nothing inherently flawed about their ideological premise. The only reason we don't see them succeed is that they're wiped out by the more bloodthirsty sects before they have a chance to gain momentum because in the cannon timeline our GF2 protagonist sided against them. As usual the balance of fate rests squarely in our hands.

The flaw in their ideological premise is that it ignores reality. Expecting a global superpower that is immensely more powerful to treat you as equals is a fools errand. Trying to get that superpower to recognize your rights by fighting a defensive war is only going to work in an ending slide. In reality the shapers would have a massive manpower, resource and research advantage, it would simply be a question of time. Why would the shapers ever negotiate there ?

There's a difference between "unmindful of the consequences" -- which certainly describes Tuldaric -- and "aware of the consequences, and taking them seriously, but still concluding they may be necessary, however unfortunate" -- which sounds a lot more like Ellhrah.

Not sure that Tuldaric was this unmindful when he actually set things in motion. And how can Ellrah be aware of the consequences when he doesn't have any idea what the geneforge is or what it will do to the player ?

I'm not sure I agree that only the leaders matter, but if that's the standard you're using, then the other sects are as bad or worse.

] Certainly the rebel leaders are all less mindful -- I mean, what's the best option there, Greta-after-the-Drakons-betray-the-rest-who-finally-figures-out-whoops-that-was-a-bad-idea? The loyalists have a few okay options, but they also have Zakary, Agatha, Alwan, and the like. The Trakovites have Khyryk, but Litalia doesn't really live up to his standard of mindfulness. The Obeyers aren't so much mindful as mindless. And Barzahl and Taygen I assume don't require a mention.

Putting Alwan in with two traitors is a bit unfair. Apart from that I agree which is why unaligned is the way to go for me.

Some of the Awakened, particularly some of the leaders in G2, yes. But the bulk of the Awakened are not like that at all.

Since when does the general populace matter ? Ellrah matters. So do Tuldaric and Pinner. Random awakened in Medab or Vakkiri ? Nah.

And even the consequence-unmindful Awakened are not less unmindful than the loyalist, rebel, and (obviously) Barzite leaders.

Disagree. In both G1 and G2 the Awakened are working from a flawed premise, that they can (want to) deal with the shapers as equals. A ridiculous stance born out of ignorance.

 

And in both games their ultimate plan to defend against the shapers is equally flawed.

Telling you to use the Geneforge so that you can deal with the shapers when that thing is the reason Sucia was barred makes sense how ? There was never any chance the shapers would deal with someone who used it. And let's not forget Ellrah's reaction once you actually do use it. Being scared at how you turned out. What the heck did he expect would happen ?

 

And don't get me started on the Barrier of the Wind in G2. Making drakons is bad enough as is, but not having any means to control them ? And giving them the ability to fly ? How is that not going to backfire ? Especially when the only person who could do something about it (Tuldaric) is right on the way to canister madness and doesn't really care about the Awakened anymore ?

 

The tragedy of the serviles. They never stood a chance. They were always dependent on others to give them what they wanted/needed.

in 1 and 2, we get "good moderate" faction that is the awakened. they are rational, reasonable, and avoids violence whenever they can. they fight for freedom in its very core.

Rational beings would take into account that actions have consequences. Something the awakened don't do. They are ignorant and that makes them dangerous.

Nah, only crazy it took you so long to see the rebels for what they are

Why this hasn't been stickied yet I don't know, but thank you so much Nim for posting this. It required some digging and clicking of links to get to this (aka: I read the thread and clicked a link to another thread), but I figured I'd post this fix that seems to work. This apparently works for Geneforge 1,2, and 3 as well as Avernum 4.

Glad you got it working. Definitely not optimal how buried this is.

http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/19424-geneforge-1-3-extremely-sluggish-xp-32-bit-steam-versions/

 

Might be worth a shot ?

The guardian with max parry. I'm not sure what I'm going to do after I max out parry, but I still have a few levels to go before I get there.

So you won't need to buy most spells and creations, you can probably also skip Brodus training, it's expensive and as a Guardian you won't save that many skillpoints. That leaves Krogst QA training which is 6k iirc and can be done regardless of prior investments so do it once you have QA nearly where you want it.

Battle Magic to get the speed spell is useful since the extra action points let you close and fight or get two attacks once you close. That's one reason that Agents are so effective as fighters.

Blessing Magic. Though it's going to take him a while to get to 100 spellenergy to be able to actually use speed.

You won't be able to buy everything. Not a problem unless you're OCD

Joining factions is def the way to go just be advised that doing so will cut off some of the other sects merchants for the time being. Also you can only leave Zak through joining another faction as he lacks the proper dialogue option. Which can make things awkward early on if you run out of merchants.

What kind of character are you building ?

Don't talk to Lankan, go kill the spawners and then get rid of the canister in Dhonals Keep.

You go kill Rahul.

28 should be the max you can reach with the inner crypt spawns.

That’s how I played much of the Geneforge series, but I don’t see how you could ever make it through Geneforge 1 without canisters and lots of them. (I always played on torment though…and I’ve seen enough of these forums to know that anything I think is impossible, someone else has managed to pull it off).

I did a no-canister run on torment with a melee singleton a few weeks (months ?) ago. The biggest problem was that the duration of speed pots sucks. No healing and curing were minor annoyances.

The sholai smith in the patrolled dell trades with you once you get the taker amulet.