Lord Safey

You don't seek perfection you seek power perfection is merely addition to your power and power should never be sought for the sake of power. If I was to use canisters it would be to try to surive and try to bring back a lasting peace .I have a goal and my ambitions have a limit and will cease when my goals have been fufilled. You and your army seek power for the sake and always hunger of it. You lead an army of infiviuals who do nothing if it doesn't benfit themself. They all have a hunger for power that can't be filled.My goals are acheivable albiet hard but once their acheive I am happy. Your lust for power will never be filled your goals can never be acheives for you seek to do the impossible, that is to statisify your lust for power. You may defeat me but I know you can never truley succed. As soon as you can no longer feed your armies lust for power your armies will fracture and your lust will cause you to betray everything you worked for. I beleive that day will come a lot sooner then you think.

true humans can't fight wars if we don't exist.

well all I have to say about canister users is your argoance is my greatest weapon. Each person has their weakness and with fortunaly with canister users that is always arrogance. It is never good to have such a preidcitable flaw.

no all warmongers want to rid them selfs of their humanity completly and they will never be able to completly do it. Even if it is overwhelminly small.

Intresting how you will never be able to compelty drive it out of you. Humans and other senients are prone to make mistakes. Since canisters are made by humans canisters are infected with humanity. Same goes for the geneforge. You may be able to dilute the humanity out of you but never drive it from you. While canisters and the geneforge may rule the realm the of the shapers I doubt they rule this realm with the same impunity. We already have our own super weapons.

in the long term time always seems to be on the side of the shapers. In geneforge one the takers are trying to build up as much power as possible before the shapers find out about them. In Geneforge 2 every faction in the moutians was rushing to build up a defence against the shapers. In geneforge 3 the rebillion is in a rush to build the geneforge before the shapers discover it. (From what I know of it) the rebillion is desperate to destroy the shapers before they fall apart at the seems. Shapers always seem to have time as their ally and powerfull ally it is.

The main problem I have with canisters is not the fact they make you ruthless. Its the fact they make you inceridably arrogant. It is a very serious character flaw that makes you over look threats and can hammpers your ability to work in fruitful organiztions and ruin powerful allainces. Which is why I would choose to use canisters in moderation should they truley exist. Almost every person who went all out on canisters failed because they under estimiated their oppents and over estiamted their own abilities.

Bunkers serve the same purpose as castles. The also are a more secertive version of forts. So shapers might be very attrative to bunkers. I'm lost on trenchs mabey it was to counter some type of uber turret.

They did try to pick the best but in the end I think they lacked training. Even in Geneforge one you still get a lot of training. I think that it shows that pure training vs pure agumenation and pure training wins out. However agumenation in addition to training is very powerful but you must not sarifice training at the sake of agumenation. This was the Barzites weakness.

be kind of funny if some one made a cannister that gave you an immune system so strong that it prevent new canisters from modifying your DNA. I make hundreds of them and leave them in places canister slurpers will find. Then wait for the angry hoard of mad canister uber shapers.

I wasn'ts saying their are weak beacues of their weak geneforges I'm saying their weak inspite of thier genforges.

From what you say I think the orginal geneforge was a test of shaper might made at the height of shaper power dureing peace time with no resource sucking war. These other geneforges were made in hideing with much more limited resources of course their not going to give you the god like power of the orginal. Super weapons are not easy to make. Cheap mans version are going to be powerd down.

So the rebels have two geneforges and they still can't win? They must really be pathetic.

When useing geneforge or canisters. Their are proably 3 different set of problems you have worry about. First is the shock to your body. With no protection your body is likely to die from shock from use of the geneforge. 2nd is your body immunes system trying to reject to changes could cuase some intresting problems. 3rd is the slow but sure accumaltion of mistakes. Statsitcally each use will introduce a minor mistake and after you use a few hundred/thousand. The mistakes become more pronuced. I like to point out the teacher who joined the rebillion and the shaper who started useing them without realizeing it.

Techincally any two organisims that can reproduce and produce off sping that can produce offsprings your the same spieices. The problem with canisters and the geneforge is that it modifys the DNA. The DNA is extermly complex about 100 million genes.These genes combine with each other to make other genes. Modifying your gense with out makeing a mistake is logisitcally impossible. The more you modify your self the more mistakes you expose your self too.

@Emperor Tullegolar What is your definition of humanity? Cause by my defintion they decrease and removes your humanity.

trenchs where made with advent of the 50 caliber maching gun becuase their simply was no other effective protection. Unless they have an equivlent thier is no reason for them.

do you think if you used enough canisters would it be the same as useing the geneforge? How many would you need to use?

While playing Geneforge 3. I noticed that rebellion is made up of several different groups. First are the feircly independent serviles I could see hints that they don't completly like the idea of the all controling drakons ordering them around. Second is the gazers and eyebeasts who are all of in lala land with their own hive mind. Not makeing them easy to work with. The dryaks are fiercly indenpedent, power hungry, prideful, arroogant and jealous of drakons. Drakons have all the character flaws of dryaks 10 fold. They are jealous of each other, which proably isn't good when you need to work with each other, and they beleive they are better then everyone else and everyone who is not a drakon should sever their every whim. I just get the impression that the rebellion might have some slight internal problems. My question is this refelected in geneforge 4 and do the shapers take the rebellions's tendency to fracture into account for when planing their strageties. If I was a shaper I would definatly try to encourge hostilites between the differnt species of the rebillion cause then I no longer need to destroy them they will do that themselfs.

huh?

if only the beta is out I'm not sure how many would have it.

The shapers may be weaker then the rebels or the travokites but they don't need be as powerful becuase the other 2 groups are self destructive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the occasinal canister as long as you don't let it go to your head and don't become dependent on it. One must be flexiable and adaptable; and useing cansiters to get an edge is not a bad thing as long as you control it To become depedent on them like you have is weakness. Shapers are less powerful then you or the rebels but they are more stable and so is their source of power which in the end will allow them to win.

I chose the shapers out of hope. The shapers are the only ones who would ever try to restore peace. If the rebels win then the will fracture and the world will split into a massive bloody war that makes the current one look like a minor skirmish. If you win then as soon as you lose your monoply(if you haven't already) on cansiters rival factions will arise out of your empire out of simlar minds to oppuse you and we have another massive and bloody war. Shapers are the only ones were victory would not immeditanly lead headlong into an extremly bloody civil war. In this post I pointed out your victory is not deisirable and in the previous I pointed out it wasn't inevitable. Call me weak if you like; but I don't like the idea of constanly looking over my shoulder or unending wars.

I see only one problem with your plan. Your plan is to jealously protect your cansiters and give them as payment to your army. Which works real well. In ancient Rome those who payed the army controlled Rome. As long as you rewared your armies with cansiters and be careful doing so you will be fine. One problem, canisters are very hard to controll much harder then controlling knowledge the old fashion way, an advantage the shapers have. If someone in your amry wants to gain power without your perimssion all they have to do is steal a few cansiters and use them real quick (which will take 1 or 2 hours at most) compared to shapers haveing to steall lots of heavy books and vauble machinery and study for years all the time avoiding being caught. The second problem you have is your system pretty much uses canisters as currency. One person gets to your canister factory and sabatoges it and your entire amry fractures. Trajkov had control of his army but feared loseing it when he ran out of canisters and he was very desperate on gaining the abilty of makeing more canisters. I destroy your canister labs your army collaspes; you burn the shaper's books they go on. In that is your weakness.