Thralni

You know, Stareye, that is not such a bad idea. I already made that suffic, sorry, postposition, so that would be a possibility, although I'm not sure evrybody can pronounce it. Of the Nephilim = Nephil - merh - as In which - merh - is the first suffix, making the word plural, and - as is the postpostion, making Nephil genitive. For pronounciation: ph is f, h is g and s is like sh in shop. Again, I'm afraid m ost people wouldn't want to or even take the trouble to pronounce it correctly. nephilian will stay for now until I find something that is pronouncable and seems logical. You can expect that it wouldn't be "Nephil." If one wants, call it Nephil language, I don't really care actually. kelandon, I don't quite understand the relation between "Nephilia" and the fondness of saying "no." Could you explain that again please? And yes, the scenario is in english, with Nephilian texts in Nephil cities and temples (Actually Senarti temples and cities, but as they are overgrown nephilim...). stareye: That scenario, care to tell me what it is about in broad lines, so I know for sure that the scenario I'm planning at the moment won't cover the same things? You can send me a PM.

Three things and a question: 1) I don't see any of the sings. it is just a blank spot, like this: . 2) I don't care how most language-names are formed. I'll think of my own when I have enough words, so I can partly bas the languages name on these words. particularly their sounds. 3) For now Nephilian will stay. By the way, maybe "Nephilian" sounds incorrect in English, in Dutch it sounds good. And also, what about italian? isn't that a language? And also, Who says the adjective of Nphil is really Nephil? maybe in English it is, but most probably not in Nephilian. and the question: Kelandon, how did you call the Slith language, as you seem to know better how to name a language?

I don't care at the moment if nephilian sounds wrong or not. This is just a temporary name, which means it'll get its name later. I only have seventeen words at the moment, and these are just the really necessary ones. A name for the language will be one of the last things I'll think of.

Nephilian. other then that, indeed: what Student of Trinity said. Other then all that: Now that I'm posting, I thought I'd give a small progress report, although probably nobody is interested. All nouns are ready, basic verb conjugation is also ready, need to make four more tenses. Due to lack of time I can't work on it to long, resulting in a lack of progress.

Yes, I did, but got irritated when I didn't succeed. maybe I should try it again...

Thanks, kelandon. I'll test it later. it would have been nice if I could use Alint to, but I keep not understanding it, which keeps preventing me from succeding in checking files, whih keeps making me irritated, which keeps... I'll stop here. EDIT: it works, Thanks kelandon

It works now, at least a part of it. the problem moved now to line 67, and it gives the same error. I checked all parenthesis's (if that's the way you spell it) and they seem okay. What could it be this time?

I added a new part to me website: "major news", where you can read about the Nephilian grammar and the slith grammar. it isn't much at the moment, but eventually, the grammar will be posted there (Nephilian, Slith is kelandon's area). And before I forget, don't start complaining about grammar and spelling mistakes, okay?

Quote: Originally written by Slith Lord: 3. Pyrog always hated humans as much as I know, I never met him in a game but I don´t think he likes his brothers and sisters, so why would he not try to keep a small Exile army from exploring drake territory and buriing Motrax´ bones with honor? Dragons are always mighty enemies for the end! I agree. Picture this: You are a hermit and you live on your own. You hate everybody, and espacially your nice friendly-to-all sister. She dies, just like you, but she gets a nice tomb and you don't. Wouldn't you be angry?

Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Quote: Originally written by Thralni, Nephil translators & co.: The only thing I can come up with at the moment is simply using ms paint. isn't that good enough for what you need it for? And inthrall, what's wrong with the Dutch? That quote is a joke. See, saying that you can't stand the Dutch is intolerant, but he's also just said that he can't stand intolerant people. The person being quoted is oblivious to the irony of what he's said, which makes it funny. And now I've ruined the humour by explaining it. I also figures that out in the meantime. I didn't look proparly and missed the bit before it, making me think it was Inthrall's opinion.

The only thing I can come up with at the moment is simply using ms paint. isn't that good enough for what you need it for? And inthrall, what's wrong with the Dutch?

Quote: Originally written by Arcane Methodological Square: More nitpicks! Why would nephilim use a different number system and have no zero because of their number of digits? Not all humans cultures on Earth used base 10, and it's not as though one of the missing fingers could be the zero finger. Human language has nothing to do with the sounds made by other primates to express feelings. I doubt nephil language would be equivalent to other cats' sounds. In fact, even purring could change from an expression of happiness (or whatever it is) to just another sound for communication. If that's true and vocal chords can work even when the larynx is doing what it does to purr, almost all nephil speech could be modified by purrs. (R or R+purr, F or F+purr, and so on). Since nephilim produce warrios aplenty and no mention is made of any lack of nephil stamina, I think it's fair to say that they evolved out of the cheetah model of energy bursts and into the slow and steady one. —Alorael, who would like to know if nephilim from all over the Empire were banished to Avernum and, if so, if they all spoke exactly the same language before coming down. If they didn't, the language of Avernum could become a pidgin of all the pure nephil languages or dialects from the surface. I can't remember ever saying something about using the base 10 system, did I? Actually, when I started this project, I actually wanted something different, really special which will make the Nephilian language a new, interesting thing, and I'm on my way of making it that way. this means that not only the cases and verbs are different, but also the counting system. I was planning on using the Babylonian method of counting, and maybe modify it a bit. The letters m, f ,r and h, as we already broadly discussed, have different pronounciations, also meaning different things. For example this name: Mrrrrfrrrr This is just "Mrrrrfrrrr" for us, humans, but more Mrarhfrarh for Nephilim, if you understand what I mean. I believe that there were two or three main places were Nephilim lived and some still live, therefor giving two or three slightly different dialects, with slightly different pronounciations. You guys are really obsessed with the purring and roaring, aren't you? *nods in approval* Dikiyoba: nice to see others (apart from me and kelandon) like to make their own language! Welcome to the club! And as soon as I have Nephilian words for this sentence, I'll greet you in Nephilian.

Thanks very much. it afterall did help me a bit. now I have a much better idea of how to make certain tones and letters clear. thanks! is there somebody who would want to eventually see the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary on my site?

And now some final questions: How can I make accents on non-vowels? I have tried all kinds of things, but it can't be done in microsoft word, i think. Do you know of any way of doing that? is there anything know of the nephil history? Something about how long they actually exist for example. there could have been changes in grammar and the lot, also before they were sent to Avernum. I must say its really hard to come up with words that seem to be correct by nepil standards. therefor, I ask you, is it alright if I look at thr Slith alphabet? I'm veryt curious to how it is contructed. I t probably won't help me much with the Nephilian, but just out of curiosity: may I see the Slith alphabet? that was all for now. thanks kelandon and the rest who already helped me. i'm very grateful.

Thanks, kelandon. it will make it much easier for me to understand the development of nephilian, now I know how it worked with the Sliths. About the f, its certainly not only, its even found in the case postpositions, but you'll see it more often in thise words. of how much letters does the Slith alphabet consist, and how long did you take to make it? i suppose that if you know what letters can be pronounced and which not, it will be easier to do and will take you less time. How did you describe how to pronounce the letters anyway. with signs or with words in which that same pronounciation also occurs? am I getting irritating already with all these question? Hmmm, forty years. that's a lot less then I had actually imagened it. I thought it would have been much longer. Suposse the nephilim in Avernum still did speak a sort of ancient nephilian, would there be many changes in the grammar also, or just vocabulary and maybe pronounciation? i think not.

One thing is totally clear, and that is that, whatever the use of r, f, h and m, they were probably used in different ways. A Nephil often made these sounds, so we can assume that it must have had more then one pronounciation. However, the letter f is often made by cats who feel endangered. i think that therefor a nephil will also only make that sound in terms of war, fighting, names which relate to that. We don't know anything about Nephilian (I even had to invent a name for it). that is a great problem, but it makes things also more fun. the problem with vocabulary though, is hwo the hell are we supposed to know how a nephil would see it, and therefor how he would call it. I'll come over it, but it'll need some thought too. the gammar part is actually the easiest. now at least it has some basis. EDIT: A small pronounciation problem: Europian/American. I was just thinking that europeans generally pronounce words differently then Americans, that also goes for r in Nephilian. how can I be certain that Americans pronounce like I want them to pronounce it, when I'm not able to put ` and the like (how does one call those again?) on not-vowels?

Kelanondon, you are the expert on Slith language here. When was a part of the slith community bansihed to Avernum, so how long are they in Avernum. What is the difference between ancient, modern and barbaric Slith? How long did it take to form them? EDIT: what I'm after is not the Avernum nephilian, but a much older version. the one that was spoken maybe before the Empire really banished them. The ancient nephilian. Taken that nephilim and humans were banished in the same time, how long is Avernum in existence then?

When were Sliths banished to Avernum? I suppose that they also weren't that long in Avernum, or were they? The purring. I already said that its very unlikely that they could do both, but as they are able to pronounce their own names, I think that roaring or purring doesn't really make the difference in their speech. It's probably something different then. It will still relate to their build what they can say and what not, but I'm not really troubled by that. the most important part is that they prefer these four letters above vowels, which suggest (although correct me if I'm wrong) that they prefer to pronounce letters that lie in the back of their throat (how do you call that?). I have seen various Nephilim in Avernum 1, 2 and 3, who had difficulty talking English. I don't believe that (although a nephil grew up in a place were they mainly spoke English) a nephil can easily speak english, without having to learn it for many years. he simply wouldn't be able to pronounce it in the right way. I wanted to say more, but i forgot what it was.

Ah, then you ignore then my advise. I'd search on the Louvre for a graphic, or just ask somebody to draw one for you (or do it yourself).

What's actually the diffrence between a minotaur and a centaur? if they are roughly the same, you could take the centaur chief monster and alter it a bit. or was it a minotaur chief that's in the game? the almighty chicken gods will have to help me with that.

I don't think anything can be changed about my scenario at this point, but in short: You pass by a town where you drink, eat and sleep. next day you travel on, and encounter a burning city, the enemy looks cat-like. You charge them and get severely wounded. After a week or two you are able to go on in your traveling. you leave and (are supposed to) go to the capital of the province, Voughton, to ask about the cretures. You get a quest to qhipe them out. Afterwards you have to find out who did all this and kill him. its a bit like Avernum 3, I know, ut remember this: I made (am making) this scenario to get aquanted with the engine, and not really because I wanted to make this extremely original thing. Don't worry. I put in a few things that will make it all more interesting, one thing related to one of the grandsons of commander Johnson (who syill remembers him?). EDIT: And when will the next chat be? i heard it would be today at 5:00 pm EST, is that correct? Is that 10:00 pm GMT? If so, then again I can't join then. When will you guys finnaly think of a time that is good for all of us? 1:00 pm EST maybe?

Lets face it, a spider full of webs in his body would do a far better job then just some stone when thrown and hit the ground, no?

Okay, wait a second. before we start assuming all kinds of things, lets think about this thing first: Just like with the Sliths happened, a group of nephilim were banished to Avernum by the Empire, but probably not all of them, as we still encountered them outside Avernum in Avernum 3. This suggests a development in the Nephil language, caused by this sudden change of evironment. the banished nephilim were sent to another world, to another place, were probably also only then the Nepharim were born, as there were no limitations anymore of what to do. these limitations and rules, set by the older generation who still spoke the "ancient nephilian" as I tend to call it. However, the youngsters (and some older ones too, probably, were banished and therefor cut off of nephilim society, cutting them off from their homes, and therefor culture, religion and also language. The language might have started to change in the absence of the older generation, thereby making a situation wherein some Nephilim can only speak that way, but others only the other way. A good example is the "Hugenoten:" Dutch who went to Africa. if you try to speak with them Dutch, then that Dutch is totally different from modern Dutch. To cut this whole story short: you, Tom, are now taling about modern nephilian, what I want to reconstruct is the "ancient" nephilian. Of course, you need to know the modern one to be able to reconstruct the ancient one, but I'm certain they didn't speak English. So if a cat can pur or roar isn't that important in my opinion, when trying to understand the basics of the ancient language. The older generation might have purred, might have roared, might have done both (although that's unlikely). I think they probably made a more roaring sound, as they are big cats, and big cats roar. The smaller the cat is, the bigger the chance it can roar. This, however, doesn't mean that a nephil, a cathuman (please, don't forget the most important part: these are Cathumans, and not just cats, or lions, or tigers), couldn't have done both. A cat can pur as it has a second vocal chord that enables him to make the purring sound. A nephil could maybe have don't both. We don't know that for sure, as there is no way that somebody actually did scientifical research on a Nephil. I still believe that Nephilim prefered to say f, r , m or h, and vowels alot less. talk to the first Nephil you encounter: what's his name? right. Whatever he says, his name consists of at least two of that letters, sometimes three or all of them. If they couldn't have pronounced it proparly, then why do they call themselves that way? EDIT: oooooh! This is so exciting! making my own language is really so nice and interesting! If anybody would want it, when it's finished I'll put it on my site. then finnaly I can actually try to repay you guys for all the help you gave me already. if nobody reacts, I won't put it on my website, but only with my scenario. That will mean that people will first have to dowbload the scenario before seeing the Nephil grammar and vocabulary.

Well, that I already knew when i wrote that post, so therefor it wasn't exactly useful. basically there are four letters which the Nephilim really seem to prefer: r, f, h and m. In almost evey name at least two of these letters appear. it's actually quite interesting. It also makes things a bit more difficult, but I'll get over it. I completed the case-system. I'll go on with verbs shortly.

I thought he meant that, what was written there, was the longest sentence he ever encountered in the game. If he made it up, then again: what does it mean? Chances are I won't use it as it is now, as I almost completed the system of postpositions and case endings. Ghath, I remember that one. that however, is nothing more then a simple english word: "gate," only transformed to make it sound Nephil like. So ne, its not an actual nephil word, unless they were extremely influenced by english. Most names of nephilim in Avernum are also nothing more then mrrrfrrr or something like that, so that also won't be very usefull. Thanks that you are at least trying to help.