EvilEye

I read that if you kill raven you are branded a murderer and some places will go hostile. So far I have been to hollow hills and the fairie bazaar and noone seems to care. I can buy and sell stuff at all the shops no problem. I am off to kill that one dragon now, well see if anyone notices that. I am playing as celts btw.

In crone caverns, I went back in and killed the crones. When the last one dies she kills me with some sort of curse. I am playing as celts and I already went in the crone caverns, got cursed and went to the fairie bazaar and got uncursed. So I don't understand why Jeff won't let me kill the crones now Do they drop any decent items?

Thanks, that works. I think that formula should be stickied or something.

Not if you want to compute a skill level of 40 or so.

What is the formula for figuring out the skill point costs for a skill of x level? Say I wanted to get a skill from level 0 to level 10, and the cost starts at 4 SP, what is the formula for how many skill points I would have to spend?

Howabout killing her the first time you see her in Exodus? Anyone tried this? Also I thought I read somewhere on the boards that there was a way to kill Ruth and still join the D. Loyalists.

Looks like you can't join the darkside loyalists and get the quicksilver sandals also. Just waxed her in the darkside loyalist fort and she didn't drop a thing. Unless I am missing something. So just to be clear, you CANNOT join the DL if you kill Ruth at the docks right?

Originally Posted By: feo takahari We already know the effects of stats have, in earlier Spiderweb games, demonstrably differed from computer to computer. Perhaps on some computers the skill malfunctions? Or could this be a difference between the Mac and Windows versions? P.S. Anyone get the feeling Spiderweb really needs enough money to hire more people to deal with this stuff? Who knows. Its always possible. I am on windows xp / vista. Also I wish Jeff would fix the bug where magical efficiency does not work with some spells.

I just dug up an old post because I remember testing this to my satisfaction the last time you said this. "---------------------------------------------------- Here, I did some testing and I wrote down the numbers this time: VS. pirro the portmaster on Torment mode character 1 - 40 parry damage taken: 28 30 26 30 34 26 20 34 26 24 average damage = 27.8 character 2 - 0 parry damage taken: 30 22 32 32 26 24 30 26 28 26 average damage = 27.6 I chose Pirro because he doesn't use battle disciplines, and torment mode to get the damage up high enough so any differences were noticable. "------------------------------------------------------- At a level 40 parry there should definitely be a huge difference in damage received vs someone with no parry. Those tests were done with no armor whatsoever. The numbers you posted do not show any huge variance, and you have 81% armor ( according to your post ) so that is not an ideal test IMO.

Originally Posted By: Slarty First of all, Parry absolutely does offer damage reduction in addition to blocking attacks. It's about 2% per point on top of what shows up on the character sheet. Please stop spreading this rumor. It isn't true, I've tested it before. With totally naked characters. There was no difference in damage taken ( when hit ) with a no parry and lvl 30 parry. Maybe its A4 your thinking of.

Well parry can block magic attacks if they are delivered like a missile ( fire bolt, smite etc ), I've seen that happen. It cannot block area attack spells like ice blast. Don't get me wrong, parry is still very useful. If it did reduce damage it would be a little overpowered IMO.

Blah, screwed up on editing my post, sorry. The delete post option is a little screwy. Here, I did some testing and I wrote down the numbers this time: VS. pirro the portmaster on Torment mode character 1 - 40 parry damage taken: 28 30 26 30 34 26 20 34 26 24 average damage = 27.8 character 2 - 0 parry damage taken: 30 22 32 32 26 24 30 26 28 26 average damage = 27.6 I chose Pirro because he doesn't use battle disciplines, and torment mode to get the damage up high enough so any differences were noticable.

Originally Posted By: EvilEye Originally Posted By: Slarty No, it wouldn't. If you test further, you will discover that not all damage reduction was created equal. The "x blocked" message reports damage blocked due to armor/resistance (the stats displayed on the character sheet). It does not report damage blocked due to the Protection or Prismatic Shield spells or due to Parry. Try repeating your test but write down every damage result you get. You will get a lower range and lower average damage for the character with Parry. No, I was not going by the messages I am going by damage done. Why don't you test it yourself. There is no noticable damage difference in with a 40 parry vs no parry when hit.

Originally Posted By: Slarty No, it wouldn't. If you test further, you will discover that not all damage reduction was created equal. The "x blocked" message reports damage blocked due to armor/resistance (the stats displayed on the character sheet). It does not report damage blocked due to the Protection or Prismatic Shield spells or due to Parry. Try repeating your test but write down every damage result you get. You will get a lower range and lower average damage for the character with Parry. No, I was not going by the messages I am going by damage done. Why don't you test it yourself. There is no noticable damage difference in a level 40 parry vs no parry when hit.

Originally Posted By: Slarty PARRY is NOT capped at 50%. The chance to parry an attack is capped at 50%. The parry SKILL also provides universal damage reduction with every point purchased, and this is not capped. It is not displayed on the character sheet and is not subject to the 90% resistance caps for those stats, either. I am not sure where you get this information from. According to my testing with 2 identical level 20 characters ( 1 with level 40 parry ), parry does not reduce damage when hit. If it did it would say "x blocked" in the log.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer I got through my last singleton game without running out of spell energy using potions and magical efficiency doesn't work with area of effect spells. The only priest spell magical efficiency doesn't work on is divine fire IIRC. Divine retribution, Divine restoration, smite, Divine host, etc all benefit from what I remember. Parry blocks missiles at 2% a point right? Capped at 50% also I assume?

Originally Posted By: Randomizer If you join the Anama you get to read all priest spell books for no arcane lore. The cost in skill points to get to AL 8 which gets most spell books of interest is 16 with buying 3 levels from Shankar. I don't miss out on much since I have already bought at least a level of all the useful spells. For a purist singleton game where you don't use the character editor to get free AL it doesn't pay to waste the 16 skill points since it only adds a few spells for enduring shield and summon shade plus the thrown weapon skill book in Khora-Vysss. Well, lets not forget the +2 mental resistance per level. Personally I think you should have gone for the pure spirit trait instead of elite warrior. You get a better deal at +1 to 2 stats per 6 levels vs +1 to 2 stats every 8 levels. It seems as if you would save more points that way. *EDIT* Just played around with the editor a bit and made 2 x level 24 slith priests. Making them completely even in terms of skills ( level 10 parry / 12 blademaster / 10 priest ) the DT / EW was slightly ahead of the DT / PS in terms of skill points, however, he had no magical efficiency, and the gap would later be closed when he had to pump priest spells to 17 to get the higher spells. Also priest spells / magical efficiency have no real cap in terms of usefullness, while parry is capped at 50% ( roughly level 17 ), so after level 17 the bonus to parry is wasted.

Personally I would like to know how to join the darkside loyalists period. I can't find any info on where you do that, or when. I beat the game and every time I asked to join they turned me down.

Slight correction: The 10 point cap does not apply to luck according to my testing, every point after 10 still lowered enemies chance to hit by 2%.

Ok, a bit of a correction. I don't really know what % penalty frail and brittle bones, BUT, according to my math ( and I am no genius in math ): frail is around -14% brittle bones is around -24%!! ( holy crap ) This is from tests done with a breastplate that gives +34% armor and new characters with either penalty. the guy with frail and the +34% breastplate had 25% armor in the character screen. the guy with brittle bones and the +34% breastplate had 18% armor in the character screen. There were no other armor penalties / bonuses, and no points in luck or hardiness. Feel free to double-check my math. Here it is: x = armor penalty from trait y = resulting damage damage is assumed to be 100 ( for easy calculation ) the .34 is the armor ( blessed breastplate ) = 34% or .34 frail: 100 + x * 100 = y y - .34 * y = 75 100 - 75 = 25 ( armor % shown in screen ) brittle bones: 100 + x * 100 = 124 y - .34 * y = 82 100 - 82 = 18 ( armor % shown in screen ) you basically solve backwards for x. This is all probably a bit confusing and I suck at math so it could also be wrong. Needless to say brittle bones surprised me with a much bigger penalty then frail, which means frail must have some other hidden penalties that are not shown anywhere.

Keep in mind that hardiness increases armor by 2% / per point and luck increases it by 1% per point ( I think its 1% ). All armor penalties and bonuses are calculated separately. So if brittle bones gives - 20%, then with + 30% armor ( from say a breastplate ) it looks like this: lets say a damage of 100 is dealt the -20% penalty to armor increases this damage to 120. Then the 30% bonus to armor reduces it by 30% which = 84. so really you would have a total of 16% damage reduction. Someone with more math savvy and a bit more time should make an online calculator

Frail I think applies an initial -20% or so to armor, so you have to have better then the starting armor to overcome that. I have a frail character up to 28% armor with a few spare items from a late game save . So its not as if its locked at 0%. Brittle bones should work the same way. Delicate skin just applies a penalty to resistances.

Well perhaps someone could just test this so I can confirm its not just something weird about my computer... Its not just arcane blow, divine fire, fireblast and icy rain are also not working with magical efficiency.

It works like this according to my understanding ( and testing ): base damage for fireblast: 1-5 per point ( 3 average ) base damage for arcane blow: 1-6 per point ( 3.5 average ) total points = mage spells + spellcraft + magery + spell level So lets say 15 mage spells + 15 spellcraft + 15 magery = 45 points + 8 for fireblast lets say +3 for arcane blow fireblast: ( 45 + 8 ) x 3 = 159 average damage arcane blow: ( 45 + 3 ) x 3.5 = 168 average damage And arcane blow will become more ahead the more points you have in mage spells / spellcraft / magery. Also magic damage is not as resisted as fire damage. *EDIT* if you are going to use a fire spell divine retribution DOES benefit from magical efficiency and hits everything on the screen. At a high level of MEF ( around 20 or so ) it becomes cheaper then fireblast, and if you have enough enemies or enemies that are spread out, it does more damage.

Fireblast is not the most damaging spell. Fireblast is about the same as Divine Fire ( 1-5 per level ). Arcane blow is the most damaging ( 1-6 per level ). All 3 of these spells do not work with magical efficiency according to my testing. However lightning spray, divine retribution, bolt of fire, arcane shield, divine restoration and many others do. In fact, with 40 in magical efficiency, all of the above mentioned spells cost 0 energy to cast, every time ( or at least every time I tested ).