PerishedFraud

17 hours ago, Personal Injury Doily said:

I just don't think this is true.  If you look at what people said about G3 and boats closer to release, and what they say about it now... I'm honestly not sure there's much of a difference.

 

The same things people like or hate about G3 today, like the absolutism of the forced choices, were hot topics then, too.  The boats were described in similar terms then and now.  Certainly I've never seen anyone say that the boats single-handedly "ruin" the game.  I think your take on this greater trend of convenience is interesting, but I'm not sure why the reaction to G3's boats are being forcefully shoved into that pattern.

Aruging about how much the trend of convenience ties to G3 (or spiderweb itself) is a whole topic in itself, with other entries such as equip-only encumberance and the junk bag being notable. However there's no greater reason for my mentioning of it beyond it being true in my eyes. It also has little to do with the choices in G3 which are just a flat out writing issue. It's worth pointing out that, while placing the boats in the game was always a bad decision, it was, as I see it, not important enough to reconsider their addition. Meanwhile, doing such an addition today would be a silly move indeed. It's a hard situation to explain and perhaps my reasoning for it is misplaced, but the situation is still there, however elusive. Perhaps players' opinions have come to matter more these days?

Or it could just be a matter of history. With every year we have more and more games to look at and mistakes to learn from, including the boats themselves.

19 hours ago, Personal Injury Doily said:

snip

To clarify, I'm saying that I believe the boats were placed into the game to begin with for immersion. I can't see a reason to do it programming-wise as big singular maps worked fine for all other games. The second point is that on release, the boats were seen as a stain on an otherwise nice game, while with the passage of time it shifts more and more to the boats ruining the game, as the value of convenience in games increases.

The Trajkov ending in G1 is very cool and nice. Going from experience I am sure that most players assume that he is doomed to fail against a whole shaper empire, and yet if you support him...he just wins, and so do you! It was never the fact that siding with him is an option that was surprising, but that something could actually come of it!

The shaper path in G3 is very satisfying. While other games are more interesting when it comes to morals, in G3 you pretty much just walk around solving rebel problems, and it's nice carrying that out to the end. From a writing perspective this means G3 failed badly to portray the rebels as a viable side, especially with particularly meh NPCs like Hoge, Litalia and especially Lankan. From a player perspective it feels nice to solve all the problems they made though.

It was a thing of its time. It sacrificed some convenience for the sake of immersion. Back in the day this was not particularly looked down upon, but as the gaming industry advances, higher and higher standards are set, and small grievances start seeming more and more terrible.

The boats were a novel idea, and at the time of release I don't think they had a truly notable negative impact, but time has not been, and will not be kind to them.

22 hours ago, Bac4More said:

OMG will i now have to play Geneforge AGAIN! Who here will admit to having a love/hate relationship with Jeff Vogel games? He is a cranky old man who pulls cheap tricks out of the bag simply to frustrate the player; and yet I keep coming back to play his games. His games are like all those little mines he puts in your way, I know I they are there, and I don't want to go that way, but I will. I will play the game, yell and scream at the monitor, curse him for making me go thru half a dozen strategically placed turrets, each that can kill me in 1-2 shots, but I will get no experience from my hard fought victory; I will go to a lever and put 10 living tools on it....one by one(why can't he just program it to see I have the number of tools needed and ask me if I want to use them). I will get surrounded by enemies that will slow me down, cover me in acid, poison me, hit me 2,3,4 times before I get a shot in, and constantly run away just out of my reach and hit me with ranged weapons. In short I will constantly fight above my weight, going where I should not go. But then there are the times I make it through a quest and feel like I am the greatest champion that ever lived. Poor, poor pitiful me! I know he is snickering and laughing , gleefully rubbing his hands together somewhere as he make these games!

Play Geneforge 2 and do a full parry build.
Thank me later.

You'll never take me alive.

12 hours ago, Callie said:

Granted, but somehow Tulsi Gabbard is elected president.

 

I wish my milkshake would stop bringing all the boys to the yard.

Granted. It now brings all the men to the yard.

I wish for Ornks to become the subject of religion.

Are you purposefully setting yourself up there?

Very well, you receive a cure for cancer, but are also stricken with the cold!

My own wish? How about something practical. I wish for a universal, global language to be in use (and the elimination of prior languages).

I fixed mine by installing a mod for ddraw support. The usual method wouldn't work. It wasn't a geneforge-specific mod, rather something for all games like that.

It also worked for G2 and G1.

eh

12 hours ago, Vinlie said:

So Deadliar how would you yourself fix these problems?

I intend to wait to see what happens with the Geneforge remakes.

I have faith that things will be far improved. If they aren't, I'll make a mod, I suppose.

Importantly, player choice on Greenwood could solve that last issue wacky mentioned. The player is given the option to be rude... but what if you could actually try to order the people around? Get yourself an escort squad of controllable soldiers that are clearly afraid for their lives by forcing the commander to help you.

Then, if any of them died, you get a lovely reaction from the commander. Something like clearly being enraged but holding it back and being polite. After all, what's a few followers to solve a rogue problem, eh? A better choice for a less-kind shaper roleplayer.

You make some nice points. I do have a single thing to correct though.

>Other than the Shaping school which drives the majority of its commerce?

They're dead lol. It'd be a primo chance for previously-secretive rebels to spring up.

As for the more contemplative points, I think that the canister on harmony isle ruins Lankan. He's presented as a great leader, supposedly a person of great influence.
Instead he just chases after this canister blindly. How are we supposed to believe that a person is clever while he behaves like a fool at the same time? 

A lack of choices and proper solutions is one half of the issue, that's true, but it doesn't fix this nonsense. I mean really, really now...does Lankan think that gaining some power for himself is really what he needs to win a non-violent struggle? He outright forgets everyone but himself, lol. The whole 'support the whole outpost' thing seems far better. Lastly Lankan doesn't give a damn about the morals of canisters and reshaping, he doesn't even mention that stuff. He just knows it's illegal and he wants it for personal reasons. Leave Barzite agenda to the actual Barzites, methinks.

A big problem on greenwood is that there aren't any shapers other than you. You get to see some nasty stuff but there's ultimately no one to blame for doing or not doing things. A wise man would notice that the situation could've been better even before the school was attacked...but this isn't something you get to see in-game, and that's what matters ultimately.  If you need to spend time trying to make sense of obvious events, something's wrong. 

Could've, Alhoon, could've.

I personally think that Zachary is pathetic, but he showed traits of cunning between his otherwise bland character. I think he could've been, and should've been, a mastermind-type guy, and not the weak, regretful person that we got.

You'll never take me alive.

I'm curious as to why you want bigger sprites. Are you making a mech? :]

Dunno if was mentioned before. EFTP: In Patrick's tower there are NPCs called Anji and Kai right next to each other. They might be a reference to Anji and Ky from Guilty Gear.

For bonus points, Anji, who is a guy who dresses quite femininely in GG, is a girl in Avernum.

I'm curious about whether these two existed in the original trilogy. Ky is an oldie but Anji debuted in 2000. It would be a ridiculous coincidence if the NPCs existed earlier.

Open your window. It will fly out.

Have you tried going to an area that does this, then leaving?

Just common sense. Sorry if it doesn't help.

Sadly Avernum does not include gil toss.

Aye. The issue here is that cheats do not revert it. I've heard that some places need you to go a fair bit away first. This also does not work.

Freehold seems to be the only town affected. Very peculiar.

Edit: A suspicion: Perhaps it treats common guards as important characters.

A interesting occurrence that I found while revisiting eftp:

While fooling around or more importantly, messing up in most towns can be solved with cheats and the like, the Freehold of Kyass remains hostile eternally. One unprepared save had me permanently locked out of the area and absolutely nothing could fix it.

I'm a fair bit interested as to why the place refuses to budge and how I could do something about it without wiping that save.

I like bees. They're (usually) friendly, they make honey and help the ecosystem. They're cute and fluffy and maintain these qualities up close - a rarity for insects. I'm also big on the whole teamwork thing they have going on.

Bees.

After playing through Avernum remakes and Geneforge & old Avernum prior to that, I'm about to start with the Avadon series.

How is it compared to Avernum and Geneforge?  What can I expect in terms of combat mechanics and more importantly, story?

Finally, which of the three is the best in your opinion?

Dealing with the second island in Geneforge 3.

Both sides.

They're very well portrayed and show just how misguided and desperate both sides are, while also showing that a person is never a pure representative of a faction.

Also that pesky necromancer's lair from the same island. It was something refreshing.