A6 - I need to learn Avernum Math 101

[Coach]

Okay, I should have learned this by now, but...could someone please point me at a post that will explain damage formulas - for instance, what does 11-33 damage mean, and how do bonus multipliers change it? Same for defensive items?

 

I know this has been discussed elsewhere in forums but I can't find it. Thanks much.

 

Edited to add: this is directly related to how I play Avernum 6, which is why I put it here. I'm trying to figure out which weapons and gear to use.

[Dantius]

It is the way that Jeff determines damage for the series. Basically, to calculate the damage, divide the second number by the first, in this case getting 3. That meand that for every attack, you have the chance of doing 1-3 damage. Then, the first number, 11, means that you will draw a random number from 1-3 11 times, and add them all up to get the tatal damage. For each level of weapon skill, you get an extra 1-3 damage. So, if that 11-33 is on a pole weapon, you would do an extra 1-3 damage for every level of Strength, Blademaster, and Pole Weapons. If it was a bow, then every level of Sharpshooter, Dexterity, and Bows would give you an extra die. There is another topic discussing that here

[jlsgaladriel]

Oh! I'd always read 11-33 as 3d11, not 11d3.

 

Since the average of 3d11 is 18, and the average of 11d3 is 22, I have no complaints at all at having been wrong.

[Dantius]

No, you do. As your skills with a weapon increase, a d11 sword will easily do three times the damage of a d3 sword. Even with just 2 strength (what you start with on a custom IIRC), a 3d11 sword will now be doing 30 damage and a 11d3 sword will now do 26, meaning that the higher damage dies sword is better.

[Coach]

This is extremely helpful. Thank you, Dantius! If I could ask another question...

 

My understanding of defense is that a hit on your character diminishes in order of armor percentage first. So you have a 25 breastplate, 10 helmet, and 5 boots. You get hit for 80. 25 percent brings it down to 60, 10 percent brings that to 54, five percent brings that to about 52. Correct?

 

Now, where do Defense and Resistances come in? An armor piece says "+10% to poison resistance" - how's that calculated? And "diminishes damage by five percent" - when?

 

I ogre. I are confused. :-p

[Dantius]

The resistances of an element are factored in only when you are hit with that element. For example, if you are coated with acid, and are taking 40 damage per round with the above armors, you would take 40x.75 for 30, 30x.90 for 27, and 27x.95 for about 25.5. Then, just factor in the resistances as a whole- say, a acid resistance total of 50, and then the 25.5 becomes about 13 damage. Total resistances are viewable on you character info screen. Defense and Resistance just add 2 or 3 points respectively to ALL elemental resistances, and diminishes damage does the same thing, too.

 

There ya go.

[Mea Tulpa]

Not quite all -- see the skills topic.

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

As your skills with a weapon increase, a d11 sword will easily do three times the damage of a d3 sword.

Oh! I never imagined the multiplier damage was d11 -- that's just silly. I just wasn't equating the base damage with the multiplier damage.

I was thinking melee weapons worked more like spells, for which the skill-multiplied levels are unrelated to the initial damage:

ie lightning spray 15 + (ss)d4
or fireblast 14 + (ss)d5

So I was thinking the 11-33 sword was basically
3d11 + (melee stats)d3. I think that's just the knee-jerk reaction of an old table-top gamer -- it's so much easier to roll 4d20 than to roll 20d4, that you just never see things set up the opposite way. Of course, with a computer doing the random number generation, the number of "rolls" is virtually irrelevant.

[Alorael at Large]

As to the possible question of when elemental resistances are applied versus armor, or whatever else, all the effects are multiplied and therefore commutative.

 

—Alorael, who actually isn't sure why spells don't work more like weapons. Doing all damage by dice seems to make more sense than throwing in a constant.

[Coach]

Once again, thank you Dantius, and all who tackled this one! I would never have figured it out on my own. Increases my enjoyment of the game enormously.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Like Meaning in All Seasons

As to the possible question of when elemental resistances are applied versus armor, or whatever else, all the effects are multiplied and therefore commutative.

—Alorael, who actually isn't sure why spells don't work more like weapons. Doing all damage by dice seems to make more sense than throwing in a constant.

I'm fairly sure Jeff now tries to make the damage formulas as incomprehensible as possible, in an attempt to befuddle us clueless forumgoes. I'm sure his next game will include some weapon that does ln(3-13+pi) damage, but will always do 1 or two damage, just to have make Slarty go insane

[Mea Tulpa]

Mmm. I eventually gave up trying to figure out the damage formula in Nethergate: Resurrection. I think I was close, but there was something weird going on with skill contributions there. That may also apply to A1-3 and BoA, which I am less familiar with.

[Randomizer]

Nethergate: Resurrection started out with BoA damage formula but Jeff significantly modified it after it was giving too much damage.