Poll: Best/Most Important Avernum Game

[The Knight Who Said Ni]

I saw a poll/topic similar to this over in the Geneforge series section and it got me thinking. Avernum and or Exile has been around for as long as I've been playing Spiderweb Games. Exile 3 was just released when I started. The Avernum series storyline is big, from escaping from the pit, to returning Crystal Souls, to seeking peace with the Empire to being stopped by several pitfalls. Which game is most important to the central ultimate conflict between Avernum and The Empire. You can vote once for one game, I included Avernum 6, if you think you can predict the future.

 

Ni.

[Alorael at Large]

Is that the central ultimate conflict, really? The Empire has been the enemy in A1 and A2, but Rentar becomes the primary antagonist in A3 and A4. A5 and the Darkside Loyalists are complicated, but it isn't exactly the Empire that's at fault.

 

A1 introduces the world and triggers the events of A2, but A1 itself is triggered by the history of Avernum itself. A2 introduces Rentar, the vahnatai, and the driving forces for the next three games. A4 brings Dorikas and the Loyalists into the picture.

 

—Alorael, who would have to say that A2 is both the best game and the game that does the most to move the plot of the series forward. A1, of course, is the critical foundation for everything that comes after it.

[SacredPath_82]

A1 wasn't much of a game to speak of.

 

 

A3 was well done (or should I say redone), the world was huge, nice side quests, etc.

 

Still my vote goes to A5, because for the first time, it introduces real play on factions. I think this is a huge bonus to any RPG... heck, it's something that's not even found in every high budget RPG.

 

Also, the game system now allows for more customization of characters (even though that's also true due to lack of skill points). Torment is really hard compared to every other Avernum game. So A5 it is (since I'm not sure I can predict the future. A6 has the potential to be the crown of the whole series though)

[Slawbug]

This is much simpler than the Geneforge question. Although A1 provides key background, A2 puts forth ALL the essential conflicts of the series. The Empire invasion (not obvious from the A1 ending), the ambivalent relationship between Avernum and the Vahnatai [A3], the future battle for space in the caves [A6], and the existence of a spectrum of opinion regarding Avernum among both the Vahnatai [A4] and (to a lesser degree) the Empire [A5]. At the same time, it still gives us a glimpse of old Avernum life, something it is hard to imagine the series without, and something that doesn't exist in A3, A4, or A5.

 

The fact that it is by far the best-written of the games, and the one that provides the most small scale continuity with other games in the series, doesn't hurt.

[The Knight Who Said Ni]

Yes, but when Rentar and Dorikas are involved, they simply become an adition to one side's "assets" so to speak. They try to set apart Avernum and the Empire. Well Rentar is just... Rentar. She doesn't fit any catagory, as she decides to wage war on everyone(Avernum and the Empire) as you get in her way in A3.

 

Ni

[Alorael at Large]

And Dorikas is surely no Avernite, but he also isn't exactly a good imperial. He does assassinate the empress, you'll note. I think he falls more into the category of power-mad villain who happens to choose the surface as his domain of choice.

 

I don't buy Rentar as an asset for Avernum at all. In A2 the vahnatai are collectively the saviors of Avernum, but Rentar is the obstructionist in the process. In A3 she goes about demolishing the Empire, which would have made sense a few years earlier but is no longer at all helpful with Hawthorne and Garzahd dead and Prazac willing to cooperate. Rentar's accomplishments are wanton destruction and a delay in a return to the sunlight. In A4 she's not only anti-Empire, she's anti-human.

 

—Alorael, who thinks Rentar is most accurately described as a surprise third party in the Empire/Avernum balance. She just makes everything worse for everyone.

[Dantius]

A surprisingly large amount of people seem able to predict the future... or are those just the beta testers?

[The Knight Who Said Ni]

Yes, I agree with the both Aloreal's comment and Dantius's. I personally thought A2 because it isn't fair to categorize A3-A5 as they do their own thing like adjectives on a noun, A2.

 

Ni

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Internet Mononymity

I don't buy Rentar as an asset for Avernum at all. In A2 the vahnatai are collectively the saviors of Avernum, but Rentar is the obstructionist in the process.

That's not really true. Rentar certainly displays hostility towards humans, but so do plenty of other powerful vahnatai; and Rentar agrees to help the PCs at every turn, however begrudgingly. She devised the Barriers, but she removes them immediately when the Council determines Avernum is not at fault. She gives the PCs advice and (at least in E2, not sure if this is the same in A2) teaches them the highly guarded magical secret of Quickfire. And most importantly, she collaborates with Avernum magi and a Crystal Soul alike in order to dispel the barrier protecting Garzahd's fortress -- a critical aid to the PCs when they are committing the critical act that ends the war. If anything, Glantris-Bok is the obstructionist. In X2, Rentar is opinionated, but follows the will of the Council.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Slartucker

and (at least in E2, not sure if this is the same in A2) teaches them the highly guarded magical secret of Quickfire.

She gives them a Phoenix Egg, which is as close to learning quickfire as the PCs ever come in Avernum 2.

Dikiyoba.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Internet Mononymity

Rentar's accomplishments are wanton destruction and a delay in a return to the sunlight. In A4 she's not only anti-Empire, she's anti-human.

—Alorael

In E3/A3, she wreaks havoc on the surface world because of the theft of the crystal souls. Then in A4, she wreaks havoc on Avernum for stopping her revenge on the Empire. From what I've seen of her, Rentar is either hellbent on unnecessary revenge, or just a spoiled child trapped in the body of a powerful archmage.

[Orifushi Mafuyu]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Originally Posted By: Slartucker

and (at least in E2, not sure if this is the same in A2) teaches them the highly guarded magical secret of Quickfire.

She gives them a Phoenix Egg, which is as close to learning quickfire as the PCs ever come in Avernum 2.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm certain we never actually learn the secret to creating quickfire. Otherwise, you know... absolute power and all that. I know I'd be tempted to light up a few towns because someone in them annoyed my party. Hell, I'd be lighting up dungeons on general principle, and waltz in to loot the place after the flames died down. Talk about cleansing fires, heh.

On the question of the poll, I'm with Turnabout. It's been a long while since I played A2 (let alone E2) but I do remember it as being THE Exile experience. A3's too much of a surface thing for my liking (wasn't bad, just not my cuppa), and I didn't like the engine change so I never got around to playing 4-5.

I wouldn't say A1's not much of a game - everything was brand new and I had loads of fun exploring the place. It's just that A2's war background really helped flesh things out. A1 had a more traditional let's-explore-this-place feel to it. Which is good, actually, because if the series started at A2's pace I know I'd have felt overwhelmed.

[The Knight Who Said Ni]

Well, the reason A1/A4 get bad raps is because they didn't advance the plot as much as say A2 or A3. They are necessary fun games but are void of significant plot advances. A1 sets the Hawthorne chain of events, thus giving A2 and A3 purposes.

 

Ni