The Reverend

My only playthrough was on hard, so I can't compare it directly to normal - but hard did not seem too difficult. Especially now that you have experience from playing through it once already, I think it'll probably go fine on hard. Generally if I play Spiderweb games a second time, I up the difficulty by one notch to maintain the same amount of challenge.

Spiderweb Software is on facebook too, and they even post occasionally:

 

https://www.facebook.com/SpiderwebSoftware

I noticed that as well - I had a couple fights where I was low on spell points, one of my casters leveled up, and they ended up with full points again. It seems like it might be a bug, but it's one that helps rather than hurts, so I haven't complained about it.

As a side task during my current play-through (all-Anama, as discussed in another thread), I'm attempting to determine whether it makes sense, financially, to buy points of Cave Lore in Formello - and if so, how many. I'm looking at the prices items in the caches can be sold for (assuming 4 negotiator traits), as well as the value of the one time herb patches that require cave lore. For the renewable herb patches, I'm going to just add a variable to the valuation for the number of times you expect to reasonably visit the various cave-lore requiring herb patches. I will post my findings once they are complete. As a preview, it is almost certainly worthwhile to get to at least 5 cave lore by buying three points and grabbing the two free points in Mertis and the Giant Lands - if you are careful to avoid outdoor encounters you can sneak there early. It may be worthwhile to buy it all the way up to 10 - 8 bought, and 2 free - but that is where the rest of this message comes in.

 

The biggest bit that is missing from my analysis so far is a way to value wisdom crystals. This will also determine my valuation of Mandrake, since that is typically the rarest herb and thus all of them will likely be used to make wisdom crystals (Greymold has a easily-accessible-via-boat renewable patch that gives 2 and requires no cave lore, whereas mandrake's renewable patch is in dangerous territory, requires 10 cave lore, and only gives 1 mandrake at a time). Thus I plan to value Mandrake at the Wisdom Crystal value minus 85 (the selling price you could get from selling the other required herbs, since you are now consuming them rather than selling them).

 

So, I've come up with a ballpark estimate of the value of a wisdom crystal, and wanted to share my work here to see if others agreed with my assumptions. I am mostly trying to figure a lower bound on the value (i.e., wisdom crystals are worth at least N), so that may color some of the assumptions I make below:

• I am looking at end of game value, thus each level grants you 5 hit points and 5 spell points, and a rotating basic stat increase. Builds are variable, but we can assume that AT LEAST 2 of the four rotating stat increases will be useful (endurance plus your primary attack stat).
• In addition (since this is end game value), every 5 levels you get to increase a stat of your choice, and 2 skills of your choice. Since you are choosing, we can assume that these are all useful.
• To keep things simple (by using nice round numbers), assume every *useful* skill and stat increase is worth 1000. This is roughly based on training costs (it is lower than many training costs, but we can assume that by the end of the game you've already trained in the most useful skills).
• The 5 hit points and 5 spell points gained are worth 800 total. This may be a bit low since 5 hit points is most of the benefit of a point of endurance, but I'm not giving much weight to the extra spell points since not all characters can use them.
• A wisdom crystal is worth 1/5 of a level for one character.

Thus, each wisdom crystal gives 1/5 of a rotating stat increase, 1/2 of which are useful (possibly more for some builds). This gives us 1/5*1/2*1000 = 100. It also gives 1/5 of 1/5 of a chosen stat increase, or 1/5 * 1/5 * 1000 = 40. In addition, we get 1/5 of 1/5 of 2 skill points, so 1/5 * 1/5 * 2 * 1000 = 80. Finally, we get 1/5 of 800 (for the 5 hp and 5 sp), so 160.

 

Adding these together, we get a wisdom crystal value of 100+40+80+160 = 380. We then get a mandrake value of 380-85 = 295. For some builds, the value may be higher. E.g. spell casters who often cast expensive spells and don't have a lot of magical efficiency may find the spell points more valuable, and non-minmax style builds that pump multiple attack stats may find more than half of the rotating stat increases valuable. You could also argue that intelligence is valuable for everyone, because it increases mental resistance, and dexterity is useful for everyone because of the increased evasion (however, for evasion to be at all reliable, you need to be pumping dexterity more than what you get from just the rotating increases).

I thought Geneforge 5 was meant to be the finale of the series? I haven't played it yet (G4 and G5 are the last two Spiderweb Games I still need to play), so I may be mistaken. But the description of it on the Spiderweb website ("Spiderweb Software brings you Geneforge 5: Overthrow, the final chapter in their fantasy epic") certainly seems to imply that ...

I'm curious how often she got 2 bonus AP just from the 12 gymnastics. So if she was wearing the quicksilver sandals, I guess the question would be how often did she get 11 or more AP?

Nicely done! With 12 gymnastics on Lucille, how often did she get 10+ AP?

The Avernum 2 remake (A:CS???) will need to incorporate the addition of two new playable races, and manage any skill bonuses or penalties associated with them. It could be as simple as extra points in the pole or bow skills, and an EXP penalty, like in the original Avernums ... but I'm wondering if he might change that a bit, and maybe do something like special nephil-, slith-, and human-specific traits.

Because of the way experience works on Jeff's games (the higher your level, the less experience you get for the same kill or quest), the negative traits typically end up only adding a few levels to your final level. I haven't played A1 in a long time, but I'm assuming it works similarly to the later Avernums in this regard.

 

If I'm trying to make the best party, I tend to avoid negative traits. If I want a challenge party, though, I'll sometimes take them.

 

Edit: Never mind, I guess this does work differently in A1-3...

It seems like all-DEX archers will still be fairly effective in this setup, unless you add a lot of enemies that do cold damage. In the current game, the majority of attacks can be evaded by a high-DEX character, so my archer actually had better survivability than my tank on hard.

It creates a nice ambiance, which is always appreciated when you're out adventuring...

Kids these days ...

<geezer mode>Back when I was a kid, our parents made us spend our OWN money on video games. And then only after walking five miles through the snow to get to school. </geezer mode>

I have found scrolls and wands occasionally useful in the early going - spamming Divine Fire when you are in the level 8-10 range can eat up spell points pretty fast, so it's nice to have backup attack. This is especially so since you can use items twice even with 8 action points. I suspect they will become less useful as I level up and gain more spell points (and as their damage relative to my spells drops), and also after I buy a couple points of efficiency.

In the past Jeff has often tried to have the mac version of a new game ready for the holidays - but now that the mac version is probably a smaller percentage of his total sales (what with the new tablet versions), I suspect this is a lower priority for him.

 

I've also often wondered how many people really buy Spiderweb games as holiday presents ... Although maybe the idea was more that people tend to have vacations then and thus have more time to play games.

This could be interesting. You might want at least skim through what Slarty did with his AEFTP remix. His goals weren't exactly the same as yours, but there was definitely some overlap (e.g., trying to make more types of builds viable).

This may be why people sometimes complain about it being hard to see objects on the ground. If you don't realize that you can use a light, it can be difficult to see them in some places. I always have one of my characters carry a stack of candles to use in dark spots (there are hundreds of free candles scattered throughout the game).

Two castings is often enough to push enemies far enough away that they can't reach you, unless they have extra AP. So with the two dedicated priests in my party, it can be very effective against melee-only enemies. As I mentioned in the playthrough notes, I used that tactic to take out the ogre near Formello without him getting to take even a single swing at me.

Also, a single casting is enough to push enemies back from an ally, allowing them a chance to run away.

Nicely done with Hawthorne. I found Grah-Hoth a touch easier than Hawthorne, so I think you have the hardest part done!

I'll probably be casting Call the Storm a lot in the Slith areas, and using its knockback for tactical purposes (or for guerilla raids - kill a couple sliths, knockback the rest, escape, and return).

On hard I managed Hawthorne without invulnerability potions, but I could see that being much more difficult with the 30% torment resistance penalty. It effectively means that you'll never be able to block more than 60% of the damage, which would hurt against those nasty golems ...

Brutus, Cecilia, Fred, and Mini reached level 10 over the weekend, so I thought I'd post another update if anyone's curious.

 

Next steps: Eastern Gallery and Points North

 

After helping out in Silvar, Brutus and friends decided to try to win some more hearts and minds around the Eastern Gallery, while at the same time improving their skills. They assisted Fort Dranlon with some goblin and bandit problems, and rescued some Cotran prisoners from the nepharim fortress. They got to practice some guerilla tactics in the nepharim fortress, and were able to make good use of the "call the storm" ritual to push enemies back and make their escape before they got overwhelmed. They also managed to use the same tactics to steal the radiant shortblade from the nepharim temple without having to take on a fight that would have probably been too difficult for their abilities at the time.

 

After engaging in a number of other minor quests around the Eastern Gallery (reaching levels 7/8), the Anama headed north to visit Formello and the friendly dragon Motrax. They took a quick side trip south to the Tower of Magi (holding their noses around the mages) and visited the helpful priest Throndell who tought them a ritual to call down a rain of fire from heaven, in exchange for the whereabouts of the anvil in Fort Draco (and a hefty sum of money ). They were then able to retrieve the Formello mayor's necklace, and in so doing earned a token to visit the castle and hopefully spread their message to more of Avernum.

 

Builds

 

Brother Brutus

Strength: 14 (+ 3 from traits and items)

Dexterity: 4

Intelligence: 4

Endurance: 7 (+ 1 from traits)

Melee: 7

Hardiness: 7

Parry: 6

Quick Action: 0 (+ 1 from items)

Priest Spells: 3

Cave Lore: 2 (both bought)

Traits: Improve Strength, Improve Endurance, Mighty Blows, Good Health, Robust Health, Negotiator

 

Brutus is still at the minimum Priest Spells required by my Anama playthrough rules (3 by level 10). Once I max out hardiness and parry, I'll start putting points into resistance, which will require additional priest spells skill (and spellcraft). At that point he will start to take on more of the party healer role.

 

Sister Cecilia

Strength: 14 (+ 4 from traits and items)

Dexterity: 4 (+ 1 from items)

Intelligence: 4

Endurance: 7

Melee: 9

Hardiness: 5

Parry: 4

Blademaster: 2 (+ 1 from items)

Quick Action: 0 (+ 2 from items)

Priest Spells: 3

Cave Lore: 1 (bought)

Traits: Improve Strength x 2, Mighty Blows, Ambidextrous, Good Health, Negotiator

 

Cecilia's build is going about as expected. She is the most deadly for single target damage, and is currently wielding the Nephil Warblade and Singing Rapier.

 

Father Fred

Strength: 5 (+ 1 from items)

Dexterity: 4

Intelligence: 14 (+ 2 from traits)

Endurance: 6

Preist Spells: 12

Spellcraft: 6

Resistance: 2

Tool Use: 3 (+ 1 from traits)

Traits: Improved Intelligence x 2, Elemental Focus x 2, Nimble Fingers, Negotiator

 

Mother Mini

Strength: 5

Dexterity: 4

Intelligence: 14 (+ 3 from traits)

Endurance: 6

Gymnastics: 0 (+ 1 from items)

Priest Spells: 12

Spellcraft: 6

Resistance: 1

Tool Use: 4 (+ 1 from traits)

Magical Efficiency: 0 (+ 1 from items)

Traits: Improved Intelligence x 3, Elemental Focus, Nimble Fingers, Negotiator

 

Fred and Mini are pretty similar. Divine Fire has been very nice! It won't be as helpful when I get to the Sliths, though.

 

Other Notes

 

Having two casters that can cast call the storm has been interesting. Two castings of it can push melee-only enemies far enough back that they can't attack. This made the fight with the ogre near Formello easy. He would run up, Brutus and Cecilia would smack him with their swords, and then Fred and Mini would knock him back with Call the Storm. He would run back, but never had enough action points to run all the way and attack, so we never took any damage from him (and his lizard pets were quickly eliminated since many of them fell within the storm cones).

 

I'm thinking of going for the waterfall warren cache with the blessed breastplate, thus the 3 points of cave lore I bought. I will also grab the two free points of cave lore to get to the 5 required. I realize 2700 is a lot to pay, but it will also open access to a number of other caches of sellable items that should partially make up that cost. Plus it will allow access to more renewable herb patches, which can also be used to bring in additional funds.

You don't need 12 arcane lore to get 12 magical efficiency, though. You only need 10 (which you can get with 8 skill points and some $$$). That lets you train efficiency up to 10 via skill points, then buy two more points of efficiency (the prerequisites don't apply to training that you buy).

 

Also, I found that 5 magical efficiency was enough that I only rarely needed to use energy potions/elixirs (the only dungeons where I used more than one per caster were the three "game winning" quest dungeons). I found way more than that in loot. If you put fewer points into intelligence (and so had fewer spell points), you might need a bit more - bit I think 12 would be a bit high, even then.

I knew that, but my characters didn't. Plus, it gave them the excuse they'd been looking for to take out Thantria.

You might enjoy Spiderweb's geneforge games - they have a leadership skill (like the diplomacy skill you mention), the chance to avoid violence in many cases, and a great deal of crafting, at least in the later games.

My first playthrough I did the Bat Cave assassin and Aid Kyass quests for her, but then gave Pyrog's papers and Drath's book to the folks up in the Freehold. When I found out what she planned to do with the exit to the surface, I took her out - couldn't let the Empire seal the last remaining exit.