earanhart

Yes, I am currently limiting to just the G1-era creations (mostly because I feel the document is already oversized for a player supplement). And I'll admit, the way I currently have them the top-tier creations are . . . not that interesting. Gave Betas and Alphas a 10 ft reach, with Betas having the Sentinel feat, thereby creating a large meat-wall for my party to hide behind.Their damage becomes less important because they can lock down an area. My Drayks are the most damaging creation with four options for attacks (one cone, one line, a ranged attack and a melee attack) (I didn't make Cryo-drayks for lore reasons, but maybe should and de-power the Drayk a bit), with Ur-Glaahks not far behind them. Betas would only be used for their battlefield control, which I think matches with the lore as well. I cannot think of any examples of Battle alphas/betas being shaped for use in anything except large-scale battle and guarding areas. I think I will also allow for humanoid creations to wield weapons, if given any. That may push them up in terms of utility, but also might not. That's a playtest thing and will need to be evaluated as we play. I am also trying very hard with this to prevent having Shaping become so powerful that it completely overshadow other party members. I may have a barbarian or fighter in the party and need to keep them relevant to the game. Rogues and Monks should be able to stay relevant through their mobility and ability to get to the enemy mage/Shaper, Paladins bring defensive options (and Smite) to the table, and Rangers (and I suppose ranged Fighters/Rogues) deal damage from much farther away than I have allowed Creations to function at (only Artilla have an attack with a 60 ft range in my system.) Hmm. I need to cogitate on this a while. Thank you for that perspective, it's a different direction than I was looking from. Yeah, in the GF games Alphabet Brutes were underwhelming. Honestly, for the first 3 games everything except the Vlish was underwhelming, in my opinion. Drayks had a coolness to them, but cost too much, Glaahks were too fragile, and melee damage required SO MANY AP OF WALKING that they often lost turns of damage output, Eyebeasts were Drayks turned to 11, in both coolness and cost, and Drakons were merely balanced between their cost and effectiveness. Again, merely my opinion. Edit: I think I have answered the Guardian/Agent issue here with another overpowered feat. It's in the Google sheet linked at the top, but I'm going to post it here for ease of discourse: Shaping (Essence Manipulation) Since I am adding the Creation spells as canister/special training rewards, they are available even to non-spellcasters. This feat allows for non-spellcasters to gain significant benefits, and by taking the Shaping (Lifecrafting) feat as well allows for the Guardian theme of a few Creations alongside the Guardian himself (I imagine only fighters will have enough disposable ASIs to take both feats, but could be surprised). If taken without the other feat, this allows for potent self-healing and a noticeable but uncommon damage boost. I think it also fits with the lore of Shapers filling themselves with Essence and using that to sustain themselves, seen mostly in G4. I do expect everyone at my table will take one of the two feats, and probably one will take both.

I'm operating off the idea that no one leaves the Shaper school until they are already level 7, scale another 8-12 levels for the standard campaign length (at least with my table) and it's on the table. Table differences make this a world of difference. As to the Battle Betas damage, it's not the individual creations I am balancing for, but rather the available army of Creations. Because I've limited party-controlled creations to needing to use both their reaction and the Shapers bonus action to attack, resulting in the entire army attacks at once, I need that nova of damage to be similar to the highest level slot available. Meteor Swarm has a max of 240 damage, and my (rough build, I'm sure a player invested in it could do somewhat better) of the largest army a Shaper can make caps at 246 (assuming no criticals). Granted, Meteor Swarm is an AoE, but it is the max damage for single target as well (oddly, WotC didn't follow their own advice in building it). Meteor Swarm also has one save for half, where this would be between between 6 and 10 individual attacks (some Creations have multi-attack), with the possibility of crits but also likely that some will miss (that's actually my current largest concern: their to-hit rolls may be off). Any individual Creation is worth far less than the spell slot, but the ability to do that damage every round becomes the value. As for Shaper/Agent/Guardian differences, yeah, I broke the Geneforge system there. Agents would be those who didn't take the Lifecrafter feat, or else don't want to learn the spells for the Creations (classes with Spells Known, for instance). Shapers are almost exclusively Wizards, Clerics, and Druids, as they don't need to worry about spell selection. Guardians are the rest. It's not as true to the original lore as yours sounds, but only one member of my table has played the games and he is mature enough to accept that my take on the world isn't identical to Jeff's. Having the three sects at current is mostly my way of justifying having Fighters and Monks in the Shaper school at all. For plot I'm going with an kind of merger of GF2 and GF3 stories, ehh... kind of. Pre-game story will be almost identical to GF2, right up to the Agent taking them for their field work. Tomorrow is the final showdown of the current campaign, then we'll take a short break from DND and probably start this up in a months time, so I've got time to fix any issues.

Locking it down to a single class won't work with my table. The players would see that as me forcing them to take this class, and then all but one of them would take it while complaining about it. It might work for a different table though. As to "most abilities are locked down that way", they really aren't. Sure, specific spells may be locked to one class, but what the spell DOES isn't. Bards, clerics, druids, paladins, rangers, and even some sorcerers and warlocks get spells to heal others HP. Every full caster gets some form of combat summons, and every half-caster has access to a long-term summon (animal companion, paladin steed). In 5e, any character can get a familiar for the cost of one feat (and there are two feats that will work for that). How many characters get a way of inflicting paralysis on a target? Of increasing the damage of another character? How many classes get an ability that is Wisdom Save or lose next action? How many classes get a bonus action that adds 1d8 or 1d6 damage? Sure, the names change (Hex, hunters mark, divine smite, sacred weapon, planar warrior, etc.) but the actual ability is still "one more die of damage per turn." Wizards and Druids both do the self-transformation play-style differently, but the actual ability of "I become a monster" is shared between them. The "hidden attacker" play style might work best with rogues or rangers, but warlocks also fit the bill, and a crafty fighter or bard can also play that way. The 'tank' play style is so spread out that I can't even decide on which two classes are the stereotypical two, but I want to say fighter and barbarian, as opposed to paladin and cleric, but druids, monks, and even a rare sorcerer can all use that play style because they all have abilities that say "+AC," "-damage incoming," and "heal yourself a bit." Sure, the specifics of how they do a given thing changes from class to class, and from subclass to subclass (the new version of PRCs are subclasses. Every gets one at a level determined by the main class, but each is tied to a specific class), but the actual abilities are fairly well spread out. No play-style has only one class that can do it. Even at the single ability scale, once you pull fluff out and look only at effects almost everything is shared by four or five classes.. Because Shaping opens up a new play-style, I didn't want it locked down into just one class. Sure, it is done best by a full caster, so bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, or wizard, but the half-casters and even the third-casters CAN use it. I don't expect any third caster to take the feat because it won't add much to them, but I also don't expect a third-caster to try for the healer role. Alhoons method with having drafted up a few different subclasses is a different answer to this problem than my system, and it comes from a different theory of gamecrafting than I do. At a glance it sounds functional. but also sounds like more effort to implement than mine, since he allows for adding modifications to individual Creations, while I only allow them to be advanced along two lines (spell level and shaper knowledge) which both typically amount to adding +1s to stats or +1dice to damage. (a few rare other things, but they are all listed on the creations stat blocks) This was why I want my system to reserve the spell slots used to make the Creations. "Do you want a Battle Beta, or do you want to be able to cast Meteor Storm?" There is no way that a single Battle Beta will outperform Meteor Swarm in terms of simple damage (at least in my system), but a dedicated Shaper can deal comparable damage every round through their army. That was my intent. This should be our Holy Mantra. Nothing else really matters at the end of the day.

Does it seem to be working? I initially thought about doing that, but didn't want to lock Shaping down just Wizards, and couldn't see any Wizard subclass being equivalent to a Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer subclass. The classes as a whole are fairly balanced, but each one gets a different amount of power from their subclasses versus from the base class itself.

Much as I hate double posting, I think I have enough new material to justify it this time. Please see my system at the link below or in the top post and let me know what y'all think. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TjZNq3oshG2KqCYE_rW08r9yWbcZex0_DvDabCptUPo/edit?usp=sharing

Great, the forums are now old enough to be drafted! Just in time for the Third Vahnatai War . . .

I'm not sure I'd put Cryoa at 2nd level, because that doesn't let me make it enough better than Fyora other than the reskin to cold from fire, but otherwise yes. Still correct. Yes, but you could recover either the 1st or 2nd level slot (but not both), since you used a 2nd level slot to cast "Summon Cryoa." Realize that (according to Sage Advice and me as DM) you cannot recover a spellslot that you haven't expended, so you wouldn't want to absorb a Creation before you have cast a spell you could recover that day. You are reading this mostly correctly to how it is in my head, but realize the 'reserved' spell slot is one level higher than the one used to summon the creation normally. It may seem a small cost, but realize that is normally going to one of the highest two spell levels the character has, in order to get a creation that is more valuable than the spell slot itself. As for consistency sake, Geneforge splits "spell slots" between spell energy and essence, both of which are used to cast spells and balances (I think mildly poorly) between the two, but Geneforge balance isn't the important part here, DND balance is. The four balance parts I am envisioning are: 1) the time to summon (which I may need to extend to a short rest from 10-minutes) which would make Creations very difficult to create once you know what you are up against, 2) that every time the creation takes damage (or sees itself being abused (no making the Vlish face-tank the trap)) it makes a Rogue save (which I obviously need to balance to their uses, giving tank-types a bit of a bonus above their Geneforge story in terms of tendency to go Rogue due to how often they will roll this, maybe give them immunity to this roll until they reach 1/2 max HP), 3) it requires giving up an Ability Score Increase to use creations at all. Sure, above 16th level the cost of it being a feat may be minimal, but at those levels the players are basically demigods anyways. At low levels, the loss of 2 points to your primary stat can be significant. Even if you NEVER use a Creation, merely the ability to do so lowers your attack and either damage or save-DCs by 1 until at least 12th level. In 5e, that's actually a meaningful loss. 4) I'm not going to make the Creations as powerful as they are in Geneforge, versus the player character. I think a single Fyora should be somewhere around CR1/4, with a 1st level spell. Yes, if it gets lucky a lone Fyora could kill an adventurer, but even the 1st level rogue has a decent chance of taking it in 1v1, and should reliably win if he gets the drop on the lizard. I think this is actually the biggest balance issue, because how balanced shaping is depends on how useful the Creations are. I need them to be worthwhile, but at the same time of limited value so they do not overshadow the players, of similar value to a spell of the one-higher level after ten rounds, but less valuable than the same-level spell below 4 rounds. This means their damage output needs to be limited somewhat (I think the easiest way would be to limit their range, actually. If the Fyora and Artilla can only spit 20 feet, it puts them close enough to action to be vulnerable. If protecting or healing the Creations takes actions from the party, the effective cost of that Creation goes up, allowing their power to also increase somewhat.) Also, I think the generally fewer spell slots of higher levels in this edition helps. With the exception of Warlocks (who only ever get 4 spell slots at all) no one ever has more than 3 spell slots of any level higher than 1st, and a maximum of 22 spell slots total at 20th level. The loss of even one of those is significant, but I'll think about doubling that cost. Unrelated, but for fluff the difference between a Shaped Creation and a Summoned One would be that normally summoned ones are unstable, a thing that already exists in lore. I may gate these spells behind the feat as well, but that is a fluff restriction for spells I am intending on being behind their spell level in terms of base power anyways, so I'm not sure if it's needed. Certainly it would be illegal for non-Shapers to know how to make even unstable Creations, but since when have laws stopped murder-hobos? And sorry for the somewhat rambling post, I'm still figuring this out and so having a mild case of "brain vomit". Edit: Another thought for a very different balance. Controlled Creations cannot attack on their own, but at the use of the Shapers bonus action all Creations under their control make a single attack each. This still allows the Shaper to sling spells out, encourages them to have more than one Creation (which may cripple their high-level spell slots), and decreases the value of Shaping due to action economy. As for balancing against the army of Creations, I think I would say that if you ever control more Creations than your proficiency bonus, all Rogue saving throws made by your Creations are made at disadvantage. This can still get big at higher levels, but at those levels it should be a big army and I merely need to balance damage against the fighters 4 attacks a turn. If individual creations never do impressive damage (or the damage will be resisted too often) then the fact that the Shaper can make 6 a turn through their creations becomes less of an issue. I need to start writing stat blocks for Creations, and then assign those to spell levels before we can truly decide what is and isn't balanced. I'll probably come back tomorrow or Monday with some basics for that. Edit2: looking at when it would be possible to make one, I decided to add all G1 creations into the list. The ability to shape a SINGLE creation from an 8th level spell cannot come until level 17, and I can balance the Dryaks power against the Rogue Saving Throws. I Still need to stat all of these creatures out, but I'll work on that over the next couple days. Edit3: added link with Creation stat blocks to top of first post.

No, at that point the Creation would be dead, and so at the next long rest the Shaper will recover the higher level spell slot. I may need to reword that to be clearer.

Link to Google Sheets with rules and creations: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TjZNq3oshG2KqCYE_rW08r9yWbcZex0_DvDabCptUPo/edit?usp=sharing The system is now in a usable and presentable fashion. Not a 'final' fashion but possibly close to that. I would appreciate it if some of y'all would give it a glance and inform me of any concerns or possible improvements you see. Now for the stuff that has been previously posted, I'm maintaining this mostly so the thread makes some sense to people checking it out later.

So, predictably, my rogue/wizard decided to research it a bit once a different player caught on that the minions were modified and mentioned it to the party. Having rolled really well, I gave him most of the data on it. For anyone interested, here is my "Crucible of Life." Feel free to steal anything you may find useful for your own campaigns. _____ Known by different names through the ages, this depression is ancient beyond measure. The artifact is capable of changing a living being into something completely different, or, as the long-dead elven arch-druid Elriath is said to have managed, creating a living creature from nothing. Some believe it to be the original tool used by the gods or primordials (or whatever entity surpasses them in power and age) to create the first mortals. A perfectly circular, shallow pool, only two feet in depth, with a diameter of 15 feet. Made from a form of terra-cotta, there is no ledge around the pool. Whatever once designated its barrier, or allowed its users to utilize it has deteriorated into dirt. When filled with pure water, the pool glows slightly blue. The colour changes as other material is added to it. Whatever effect his may have is uncertain. If any inscriptions or decorations at one point may have existed to tell its function or instructions for use have been erased by time so long ago that even the most powerful of divinations can only tell that there once was something, but cannot tell if it was pictures, script, runes, or something else altogether. Attempts to move or destroy it by any means, magical or mundane, have invariably resulted in the deaths of everyone in the neighborhood. The method by which some success with the Crucible has been attained is to prepare a creature with heavy protective magics and have them dip a part of themselves into the pool. Powerful Transmutative magics must be used to guide the magics of the Crucible to the parts of the subject that the mage wishes to change. Failure is frequent, and typically results in the subject being reduced to a puddle of reddish mud. Rarely, the creature continues to survive in this puddle-form, its mind shattered by unending and all-consuming pain. When the subject does survive, the changes can be unpredictable. Some subjects grow in size to double or more their original mass, others become entities made more of astral essence than physical matter, others gain newfound magical powers, still more are merely stronger than they went in. Controlling or guiding these changes has been done with very limited success by legendary mages of the past. Typically though, even when the subject survives, the mind of the subject is shattered by the invasion of energy. The water, when removed from the pool, remains highly magical but experiments to use it as the pool can be all result in messy failure. When drained, the pool can safely be walked through, though the enchantments within it are powerful enough that even the least magically inclined can feel the energies within it pricking at their skin. Powerful magi are instantly afflicted with indescribable sensations of pain that leave them unable to even scream their pain, much less walk out of the pool. If not removed from it, they will soon die from the pain itself. Other than this pain, there appears to be no effect from being inside the Crucible while it is dry. The Crucible lies in the deepest catacombs beneath The Grand Library, and is in fact the reason The Library was built upon its location. It is thought that a similar pool may lie buried deep in the Singing Deeps, based on occasional references to "The Pool of Creation" or "The WorldWomb" in the writings of ancient magi from there. If more than one exists, what that means is uncertain, though some scholars have presented that it may mean that different entities were involved in the creation of the mortal races, and that that may explain the different forms mortal life has taken, plant and animal, carnivore and herbivore, aquatic and terrestrial and avian.

"Crucible." I like that word. I can work with it. Thank you. Why I couldn't get it from my own grey matter, I'll never know. Scatter a few half-remembered myths with a longer name, "Crucible of Life" or somewhat like that, but let this BBEG only speak of it as his Crucible. That name even has a preexisting concept of removing aspects of the source material and a minor negative social response (at least in the USA). Thank you Alberich. This is why I came to y'all.

I'm running a DND campaign with friends, and realized as I described several of my BBEGs minions that I had basically made a Geneforge in the background (magically altered minions to be stronger, faster, hardier, but prone to rage and more vulnerable to mental magic). Now the concept and name are stuck in my head, and thus the campaign. The concept is a good one to work with, I like it. Especially given that for a long time I have had this BBEGs main power be an ancient artifact that can't be moved (in my original plans it was an underground, inverted pyramid, but now I'm thinking he discovered a Geneforge and figured out rudimentary ways to use it). The name though . . . doesn't work so well for me. And for some reason my brain refuses to conceptualize anything else to label the thing with. Help me out here? Truly just looking for something different to label the pool with. What would it have been named if no one had found Sucia Island for another thousand years and whats-his-name the proto-creation guy was killed. Magic Pool? Accurate, but imprecise and boring. Flesh-shaper? Lifespring? My brain refuses to help me this time.

Thank you.

I haven't played BoE in ages, and was disappointed a few days ago when I tried to reinstall it on my mac, and couldn't due to 'classic environment no longer being supported'. so, I ask, do yall know of any way to install BoE (even if glitchy) on Leopard?

Figured it out. The default app to open it had changed to script-reader, when it should have been the game itself opening itself. Changed the default back to the game, and I can now play again.

not a clue how this happened, but I can no longer play any of my Spiderweb-Software games except for the Nethergate - Resurrection. Any time I try to open them, i get the following error: Open Dictionary Unable to read the dictionary of the application or extension because it is not scriptable. I looked at the troubleshooting for Geneforge 3, and cannot find the "DrawSprocketLib" in my extensions folder. i know that i did not intentionally throw it away. I am using OS X. I have not yet looked at the other games help files, but G3 is the one I want to play right now, so it's what i am focusing on. I have already tried Uninstalling and reinstalling the games. What must do to play my games again? Among those not working are: Avernum 3 , 4 and blades, and Geneforges 1-4. EDIT: of course, I would misread the part where the help file says " If you are not using OS X, the Geneforge 3 installer places the file "DrawSprocketLib" in your extensions folder. " so the absence of the file is fine.

Thank you.

I am playing GF3 for the first time, and not finding anything like the Awakened in the proir two games. Is there only the two groups, Shapers and Rebels? Also, is there an independant/unaligned ending?

Okay, i don't have GF3, so I'm running off GF2 stats, but it seems that whoever gets to go first of the Eyebeast and the Ur-Drakon wins. If they go first, a group of 6 Eyebeasts can demolish an army of Ur-drakons, especially if hasted, but 3-4 Ur-drakons can do the same to the small group Eyebeasts if they get the first blow. So, if the Eyebeasts decide to work together, the best way for them to do so is to stay in small groups scattered all over the place, so they can make a few raids, then retreat back to their own caves, and can only be attacked 1-3 at a time. Oh God, I can see it now, in the middle of the shaper army, or the Drakon army, or any other group you want, a force of 10 Eyebeasts just drops out of the sky and decimates it. Honestly, who watches the sky? Even if one or two get spotted, you have them approach from different directions to minimize the risk of a significant part of your force being destroyed.

Thanks, but i'm looking for the Item part. he talks about in talknode 23 Quote: "You can change your skills, spells, creations known, and money here, and also add experience. For items, you'll have to wait until the other part of the editor is complete.";

Hadn't thought of bats. Cave drips happen in the same spot all the time, so you just don't build a house under one, but bats... theres the reason.

Anyone know where I can find one?

Do most buildings in Exile have roofs? Obviously some have multiple stories, and so they must, and others need to be secure(treasuries), but for the most part they seem unnecesary, given that the point of a roof is to keep the weather out, and underground you are never going to have weather. Why spend the extra effort and materials to build a roof when you don't need it?

Not really all that hard. The all-druid Roman party is a painful challenge. And besides, wouldn't 'all-druid' mean you need to convert your meatshield to a druid?

Spider-spear using slith Spider- nephil thief Spider-slith mage Spider-slith preist Spider-human mage/preist Spider-generic all-purpose character I like GIFTS, what can I say?