Synergy

Quote: Originally written by *i: Of course, if you wait on the Emerald Chestguard, he's not that bad. But what fun would that be? I definitely noticed Nociduas seeming tougher my second and third times facing him. I'd say Jeff beefed the battle up as he did for numerous battles. I wonder if the gamers would be shocked to know that the first beta had HP for all monsters 25% higher? The first time I hit those cave worms on Normal, they were a real pesty problem. Now they seem too easy on Torment, but that's also because I've honed my skills.

Why do I keep expecting argh to finally make a post in beautifully concise English explaining that the whole thing was a joke from the first day of his appearance?

Three pylons are decoys. One of them provides the demon with a powerful shield. One of the pylons is slightly darker than the others. Destroy it to make the demon vulnerable for a short time. When the demon reforms the pylons, attack the darker one and repeat the process. But I just attacked whatever pylons I could get to and took them all out before attacking the demon. I doubt Daze would work against the demon, but it might be worth trying.

Here is a hint, Mimi, and I give it because this was the one quest I missed entirely my first game. Be sure to watch carefully for bodies on the ground out in the open down south in the Eastern Gallery, and be sure to check them. Doing so is related to eventually getting in that door.

Quote: Originally written by arghhhhhhhhh: could you tell me what the best skills i should invest in? my character is a human archer a slith fighter, a nephil priest/thief human mage So, you’ve decided to actually play a game? (I’m skeptical). We have several threads on skills and traits running right now, so read through them to get a fuller idea what skills are really worthwhile in A4 and which are not. I probably shouldn’t answer this, so I hope my good faith is not being misplaced in offering a little help. For your archer, I would work towards 6 Dexterity and 8 Bows to make him able to train Sharpshooter. The slith fighter will want some pole skills, unless you made him a melee fighter, and 4-5 Strength, 4-5 Dexterity to start with. If you get him to 8 Dex and 6 Strength, he can train in Gymnastics which will make it hard to hit him. If you get 6 Dex and 6 Defense, you can train him in Parry, which will help deflect blows. This will be important to the long term survival of your slith. Give him several Quick Action to help him get double hits...4 to start with is decent. I give all my PC’s 1 Luck to start with. Give all your PC’s 1-2 First Aid, 1 Nature Lore, and 1 Arcane Lore and bump them up a bit as you go. Your thief should be a mage, not a priest, in order to magically unlock doors better, and he will do well with 8-10 Tool Use to start with. Mages and Priests should start with 5 Mage or Priest Spell levels to give you as many free spells at the start as possible. You can make your priest (instead of a thief) a bit of a second archer or a second mage, or just a really powerful priest. Work to get Magery for your magicians: 8 Intelligence and 6 Priest or Mage Spell levels. They will want Spellcraft soon, and 4-5 Intelligence to start with. I also give all my PC’s 1 skill level in Priest Spells so they can heal or Bless themselves, but this is, of course, up to you. In fact, it’s all up to you, which is what makes the game so much fun.

Hey yeah, Thurly, you're right. Smite does go up to 6. It's the only spell I got that high. In fact the only level 5 spells I ever got were [EDIT out five spells so as not to spoil] This is at my endgame save and I did everything in the game, so should not have missed any. There are a fair number of spells which never make it past level 2 and some never past level 1.

Thurly...Captain Call will train all this stuff, possibly minus Blademaster, Parry, and Quickstrike as soon as you get to him, assuming the shade is not in town when everyone is too afraid to deal with you. EDIT OUT: Ah, got it, Slarty is listing only the most cost-effective training locations.

Thurly...Captain Call will train all this stuff, possibly minus Blademaster, Parry, and Quickstrike as soon as you get to him, assuming the shade is not in town when everyone is too afraid to deal with you. EDIT OUT: Ah, got it, Slarty is listing only the most cost-effective training locations.

I've been making some notes on locations of Spellbooks, Trainers, etc. to better plan this sort of thing out. Formello: Sage Townshend in the NE of town will train (expensive): Arcane Lore for 1400 Spellcraft for 2800. These are both worth waiting for, because the first spellbook you hit is under Potionmaster Hrank's shop in Fort Draco and is easy to go back to. So, I have decided to buy my first two levels of each of these for my PC's. Hacking through the undead and Motrax Lair fights, etc. without some of the skills you can't buy till Silvar/Cotra would be a pain. I'm thinking Bows and Melee in particular, though if you are all Divinely Touched nephil, it would probably work tolerably—I am usually able to take a skeleton out with four arrows or less. The placement of many skills trainers seem so far down the line from when any competent player would have already trained at least two levels in them, that I was really wondering what Jeff was thinking when he placed them. If you don't know where they are ahead of time, they are largely unuseful when you come upon them, as they were in my first game. This is especially true for the first half of the game or so. Late trainers tend to offer skills you actually are still deficient in. In Silvar, Captain Call in the NE trains (only when the shade is not present) (expensive): Melee or Pole Weapons for 2100 Bows for 1680 Hardiness Defense Quick Action for 2100 I could see holding off on bows for 3 out of 4 PC's, especially if nephils, but maybe not my designated archer. Vlish was explaining some time back that dexterity and other skills become more useful for an archer later on than mere Bows skill anyway. If you wait for the Bows training in Camp Samuels, it's around halfway through the game, though once past the Formello barrier, I suppose one could make a beeline there, assuming you can fulfill the quest to enable that training...which might not be easy with current skill levels. Sharpshooter would be worth waiting that long for so cheaply. In Cotra, Cecil the Mage will train you after fulfilling his request (average!): Mage Spells through Lightning Spray Arcane Lore 1000 First Aid 800 Spellcraft 2000 Magery 1500 FA is not worth holding off on entirely, in my opinion. Considering that 1 point from each of 4 PC's is all it takes to get a decent FA return going, is it really that much to invest up front? It's one point per PC, not worth much for anything else. I would invest some FA at the start either minimally in all four or 4-5 levels in one. I seem to recall bumping FA up to about 4-5 per PC by the end of my first game, and thinking that seemed like plenty. Nature Lore...I don't remember who trains that, but it's even more intolerable to do without throughout the early parts of the game in the name of saving a couple SP's. I think NL gets up to 8-10 needed throughout the E. Gallery. Who remembers who/where trains NL? Putting 8-10 NL on just one PC is inefficient to get that far, considering you need only 4-5 NL per PC by the end of the game to open all the caches but about 2-3 you can live without. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want to go run over all the old terrain looking for caches about 1/3 through the game. Bleah. I just wish some of these trainers were somewhere more appropriate and reasonable, like Formello. My notes only go through the E. Gallery so far, so I don't know the specifics for most things after that. Knowledge Brews become possible about 3-4 significant tasks/challenges before the very end of the game, so don't count on them for anything other than your final beefing up for the endgame, essentially. ... I think having Divinely Touched nephils is reasonable if you intend on playing the entire game through on Torment. This game is no walk through the park. Combat is challenging, and defensive skills and bow skills are useful, if not vital. EDIT: Thurly, I don't think you can get NL in Formello, or am I missing something? I do think slith's got short-changed here, which is too bad, because I'd normally like to have at least one. And I think both nephil graphics are rather weak at best. There were at least three of them in BoA, weren't there? One of them looked pretty evil, which might be fitting for a Mage.

I've been making some notes on locations of Spellbooks, Trainers, etc. to better plan this sort of thing out. Formello: Sage Townshend in the NE of town will train (expensive): Arcane Lore for 1400 Spellcraft for 2800. These are both worth waiting for, because the first spellbook you hit is under Potionmaster Hrank's shop in Fort Draco and is easy to go back to. So, I have decided to buy my first two levels of each of these for my PC's. Hacking through the undead and Motrax Lair fights, etc. without some of the skills you can't buy till Silvar/Cotra would be a pain. I'm thinking Bows and Melee in particular, though if you are all Divinely Touched nephil, it would probably work tolerably—I am usually able to take a skeleton out with four arrows or less. The placement of many skills trainers seem so far down the line from when any competent player would have already trained at least two levels in them, that I was really wondering what Jeff was thinking when he placed them. If you don't know where they are ahead of time, they are largely unuseful when you come upon them, as they were in my first game. This is especially true for the first half of the game or so. Late trainers tend to offer skills you actually are still deficient in. In Silvar, Captain Call in the NE trains (only when the shade is not present) (expensive): Melee or Pole Weapons for 2100 Bows for 1680 Hardiness Defense Quick Action for 2100 I could see holding off on bows for 3 out of 4 PC's, especially if nephils, but maybe not my designated archer. Vlish was explaining some time back that dexterity and other skills become more useful for an archer later on than mere Bows skill anyway. If you wait for the Bows training in Camp Samuels, it's around halfway through the game, though once past the Formello barrier, I suppose one could make a beeline there, assuming you can fulfill the quest to enable that training...which might not be easy with current skill levels. Sharpshooter would be worth waiting that long for so cheaply. In Cotra, Cecil the Mage will train you after fulfilling his request (average!): Mage Spells through Lightning Spray Arcane Lore 1000 First Aid 800 Spellcraft 2000 Magery 1500 FA is not worth holding off on entirely, in my opinion. Considering that 1 point from each of 4 PC's is all it takes to get a decent FA return going, is it really that much to invest up front? It's one point per PC, not worth much for anything else. I would invest some FA at the start either minimally in all four or 4-5 levels in one. I seem to recall bumping FA up to about 4-5 per PC by the end of my first game, and thinking that seemed like plenty. Nature Lore...I don't remember who trains that, but it's even more intolerable to do without throughout the early parts of the game in the name of saving a couple SP's. I think NL gets up to 8-10 needed throughout the E. Gallery. Who remembers who/where trains NL? Putting 8-10 NL on just one PC is inefficient to get that far, considering you need only 4-5 NL per PC by the end of the game to open all the caches but about 2-3 you can live without. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want to go run over all the old terrain looking for caches about 1/3 through the game. Bleah. I just wish some of these trainers were somewhere more appropriate and reasonable, like Formello. My notes only go through the E. Gallery so far, so I don't know the specifics for most things after that. Knowledge Brews become possible about 3-4 significant tasks/challenges before the very end of the game, so don't count on them for anything other than your final beefing up for the endgame, essentially. ... I think having Divinely Touched nephils is reasonable if you intend on playing the entire game through on Torment. This game is no walk through the park. Combat is challenging, and defensive skills and bow skills are useful, if not vital. EDIT: Thurly, I don't think you can get NL in Formello, or am I missing something? I do think slith's got short-changed here, which is too bad, because I'd normally like to have at least one. And I think both nephil graphics are rather weak at best. There were at least three of them in BoA, weren't there? One of them looked pretty evil, which might be fitting for a Mage.

I seem to also be afflicted with the dreaded "Have new information, must make new party" syndrome. I'm REALLY tired of everything up through Formello at this point. Maybe I should just make two humans and two kitties as I would much more naturally prefer, or one slith, one human, except it seems like a slith's talents go to waste if you don't give him a pole. I don't find fire much of an issue in A4 either. I can't see why you'd want a slith unless you make him a pole-fighter. A nephil melee fighter seems good because (A) I give some bow skills to everyone and ( Dexterity is the most central skill for a good meat shield. What's your specific party makeup (with races) at this point, Slarty? I agree with the only one fighter up front idea and have been following that model for my last several experiments. I agree one good archer is very useful, which is also my second PC. But you make him exclusively a powerful archer, rather than combining with Mage or anything else? Giving a nephil Divinely Touched and Deadeye as a focused archer does sound very tempting. It sounds like your priest is a priest/mage? This means that you can't encumber him in heavy armor if you follow your own advice that Natural Mage and Pure Spirit combined are rather a waste. This works if you resolve to garb your priest in robes or leather armor only. I assume you make your mage your thief? Actually, Vlish or anyone else working on effective party contruction, from all we have been learning the last couple of weeks, what is your ideal party construct (with races) at this point? (Not necessarily what you are currently using).

I seem to also be afflicted with the dreaded "Have new information, must make new party" syndrome. I'm REALLY tired of everything up through Formello at this point. Maybe I should just make two humans and two kitties as I would much more naturally prefer, or one slith, one human, except it seems like a slith's talents go to waste if you don't give him a pole. I don't find fire much of an issue in A4 either. I can't see why you'd want a slith unless you make him a pole-fighter. A nephil melee fighter seems good because (A) I give some bow skills to everyone and ( Dexterity is the most central skill for a good meat shield. What's your specific party makeup (with races) at this point, Slarty? I agree with the only one fighter up front idea and have been following that model for my last several experiments. I agree one good archer is very useful, which is also my second PC. But you make him exclusively a powerful archer, rather than combining with Mage or anything else? Giving a nephil Divinely Touched and Deadeye as a focused archer does sound very tempting. It sounds like your priest is a priest/mage? This means that you can't encumber him in heavy armor if you follow your own advice that Natural Mage and Pure Spirit combined are rather a waste. This works if you resolve to garb your priest in robes or leather armor only. I assume you make your mage your thief? Actually, Vlish or anyone else working on effective party contruction, from all we have been learning the last couple of weeks, what is your ideal party construct (with races) at this point? (Not necessarily what you are currently using).

I had my fun role-playing my first two times through. Now it's a challenge to assemble the most potent and effective party possible. I'm rather pleased everyone's XP penalty is identical after giving each PC exactly what I wanted him to have. I really really wish we could assign three or unlimited traits to PC's. I'd give Nimble Fingers to the thief and Deadeye to the Archer, Fast on Feet to the fighter, and Natural Mage to the priest so he could cast a few mage spells in armor to boot.

I had my fun role-playing my first two times through. Now it's a challenge to assemble the most potent and effective party possible. I'm rather pleased everyone's XP penalty is identical after giving each PC exactly what I wanted him to have. I really really wish we could assign three or unlimited traits to PC's. I'd give Nimble Fingers to the thief and Deadeye to the Archer, Fast on Feet to the fighter, and Natural Mage to the priest so he could cast a few mage spells in armor to boot.

Well, I just assembled a new party of four Divinely Touched nephils. Stomper is my Elite Warrior. Striker is my Natural Mage archer. Slinker is my Natural Mage thief. And Padfoot is my Pure Spirit priest. Each nephil has a total XP penalty of -55%! Thank God for the color choices in the initial SP setup screen. I made them different colors so I can at least tell them apart visually. Even the A4 manual says that sliths are magically talented. Yet, the game offers no magical bonus to being a slith. Tsk tsk. Rather than saying humans are magically more adept than, say, sliths, I still think giving them Intelligence bonuses and/or Tool Use bonuses (due to our ten nimble fingers) might be appropriate.

Well, I just assembled a new party of four Divinely Touched nephils. Stomper is my Elite Warrior. Striker is my Natural Mage archer. Slinker is my Natural Mage thief. And Padfoot is my Pure Spirit priest. Each nephil has a total XP penalty of -55%! Thank God for the color choices in the initial SP setup screen. I made them different colors so I can at least tell them apart visually. Even the A4 manual says that sliths are magically talented. Yet, the game offers no magical bonus to being a slith. Tsk tsk. Rather than saying humans are magically more adept than, say, sliths, I still think giving them Intelligence bonuses and/or Tool Use bonuses (due to our ten nimble fingers) might be appropriate.

This would be a truly wonderful thing. I didn't get that email from Jeff, Alo...was it a personal reply, or where did you get that info?

Worst case of ADHD I've ever seen in print.

You mean Deadeye, rather than Sharpshooter, right? Though they might as well be synonymous if Sharpshooter is all Deadeye gives you. Its description could certainly be fulfilled by Sharpshooter alone (more likely to hit and hit harder). Again, why use Deadeye when Divinely Touched gives you Sharpshooter, and advances its bonus levels at a faster rate? Might as well make an Elite Warrior or another Natural Mage out of an intended archer. I make mine a second mage and only make one true meat shield fighter. It's exceedingly annoying at this point having only two nephil graphics though one can change their color with the Appearance button in the training window. Personally, I think the races as PC's look silly. I'd rather have many humans to choose from and more traits (like Nimbleness) to assign, and be able to assign however many I want. I am forced to go through a whole game now with walking cats or lizards just to optimize my game. This is racial biasing! (Humans have no special abilities or advantages). I vote for humans having "Intelligence" bonuses, and therefore making ideal magicians...at the very least.

You mean Deadeye, rather than Sharpshooter, right? Though they might as well be synonymous if Sharpshooter is all Deadeye gives you. Its description could certainly be fulfilled by Sharpshooter alone (more likely to hit and hit harder). Again, why use Deadeye when Divinely Touched gives you Sharpshooter, and advances its bonus levels at a faster rate? Might as well make an Elite Warrior or another Natural Mage out of an intended archer. I make mine a second mage and only make one true meat shield fighter. It's exceedingly annoying at this point having only two nephil graphics though one can change their color with the Appearance button in the training window. Personally, I think the races as PC's look silly. I'd rather have many humans to choose from and more traits (like Nimbleness) to assign, and be able to assign however many I want. I am forced to go through a whole game now with walking cats or lizards just to optimize my game. This is racial biasing! (Humans have no special abilities or advantages). I vote for humans having "Intelligence" bonuses, and therefore making ideal magicians...at the very least.

I admire Alo for his impartiality. One's defender should not receive special permission to violate the CoC any more than one's antagonist.

30 is the max allowable amount in all stat categories. If you buy level 31, the Train screen will let you do it, but then it reverts to 30. So, I imagine if you got 30 in a skill like Tool Use, any level-based bonus thereafter would not stick either. 30 is the limit no matter where the points came from. Nice work. Keep it up! I'm liking Divinely Touched for all my PC's all the more. I'm wondering what else besides Sharpshooter the Deadeye trait actually adds to bow ability—is it really worth it to give an archer, or will Divinely Touched add more with it's more quickly ramping up Sharpshooter? Nimble Fingers seems pretty weak, and I have abandoned using it as a Trait.

30 is the max allowable amount in all stat categories. If you buy level 31, the Train screen will let you do it, but then it reverts to 30. So, I imagine if you got 30 in a skill like Tool Use, any level-based bonus thereafter would not stick either. 30 is the limit no matter where the points came from. Nice work. Keep it up! I'm liking Divinely Touched for all my PC's all the more. I'm wondering what else besides Sharpshooter the Deadeye trait actually adds to bow ability—is it really worth it to give an archer, or will Divinely Touched add more with it's more quickly ramping up Sharpshooter? Nimble Fingers seems pretty weak, and I have abandoned using it as a Trait.

Actually, as I recall, if you have a nephil in your party, you can meet a camped group of nephils a bit SW of where you first emerge into Valorim, and they want you to get iron for them and will pay a lot for it.

Well, priests get cheaper priest spells with or without Pure Spirit and have no encumbrance issues, so a priest with Pure Spirit and a Mage with Natural Mage are roughly on the same foot, except the mage has more expensive spell levels and could still become encumbered, if you really weigh him down with the wrong combination of armor.