Vent

Thanks it's a lot more clear. I tried an update like that and it worked, the only troublesome I have is that I cannot use the registered game on OSX. But well it's not a surprise, the problem is coming from my CD that have an install application that cannot run on OSX. I made the update in Mac OS and it worked but then I couldn't use it under OSX and still have it registered. I'll have to request a code or buy CD with OSX version. My question about version was for the last Mac OS versions before they have been port for working on OSX too. Thanks to have point it to force me make it more clear. For example with Avernum 1, I could update to 2.0 in Mac OS 8.6 and can launch the application and load a save but this version seems make the System or the emulator not stable. So for running on Mac OS 8.6 it's more interesting to have the last original version. I have 1.0.2 for A1 and A2 and 1.1.3 for A3. But for A3 I need check, it's perhaps compatible with OSX, it's so close to last version with OSX. EDIT: Yes the A3 I have can be installed on OSX (or Mac OS).

For the OSX version on the CD that's fine, thanks for the precision. I'll send an email anyway to be sure because the site isn't clear at all about that. For the double compatibility of the applications I have seen on the site some links to older Mac OS version of the games. But that need a check. For the updates, where are the updates? You bought CD with version 1.0 and you can download a demo of 2.0 but not any update or there's an updates page I haven't seen. Could you provide the link? My understand is that the update is through downloading latest demo and request registration code which is a little tedious when you buy a version that requires no code, the CD version. That said ok that's a small protection and to facilitate management of multiple versions, demo, electronic version and CD version. I don't mind buy fresh CD at little price even if it's not very standard. For the files compatibility, I load my current game in the Demo running in OSX and it seems to work fine. Nobody know what was the last version of the Mac OS Avernum games?

Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno 1. Cave Lore is the same as all Lores - it's a group skill. First Aid, however, is not. That wouldn't make any sense because it's an ability each character can use individually. Just read the in-game description to the right - if it says "The more of this skill in your group, the better", you know what the deal is. Thanks but no the in game help isn't that clear in Avernum 1, read the cave lore description traits you won't find the sentence you quote. And I don't see why for First Aid it's so obvious, this is a group trait in Avernum 5, could have been like cave lore, a wrong text description. After battle there's all the time that the more skilled characters aid other isn't it? :-) Originally Posted By: Rent-an-Ihrno 3. If someone joins your group and is put in slot 1, he/she gets the Elite Warrior trait, if he/she is put in slot 4, he/she gets the Natural mage trait. Slot 2 and 3 don't do anything. Now, as soon as he/she has joined, you can allocate his/her skill points in whatever fashion you like, just like all your other characters. The traits and bonus skills (like Find Herbs) are unchangeable, though. Thanks for the explanation that's much more clear now. EDIT: Sterling Samurai: Yes that's the logic I finally followed.

Am I alone to have such problem? My keyboard is quite standard that's one of those "new" apple keyboard that are very flat. The problem is that the game recognize the keys as if it was a US keyboard. Mine is French but there are many sort of keyboard that aren't the standard US keyboard.

Is their any blame in my post? Nope. Weird the current CD versions sold aren't for OSX? Are you sure of that? The site isn't obvious at all about this. Well at least I didn't understood that. EDIT: Well the site isn't clear at all about the version on CD neither separate CD nor the trilogy on one CD. I'll have to send an email to know that. EDIT2: About CD not upgrading itself I disagree it's exactly what happen with most game and all games that got a free update from Mac OS to OSX. Most don't bother with an install software when copy is simple enough for that and then you just apply the OSX update, all free, and no request to do. The same for just software updates, you install the original version then apply the updates and that's done, CD upgraded.

My keyboard isn't supported by Avernum 5 for OSX, that is quite tedious and surprising even if not a major bug. Is there any way to solve this?

I understood but have the cd version is safer for the future. They have all versions (Windows and Mac) and no need to require register code. That means that if suddenly you you want spare you free WE time you won't be block because of codes and requests. Not to mention if later Spiderweb close doors. I already experiment something close to that with Realmz and that's highly unpleasant. For people like me that want update their cd a little rebate would be cool.

The in game help isn't fully clear if Cave Lore and First Aid are group skills like Arcane Lore. Are those all group skills? In a tips section I saw that the Nimble Fingers trait didn't work in Windows version 1.0. Is that true for any version of the game? I met an adventurer in a town, he want join the group. I was wondering if later when he level up I choose the skills or if this is the engine? From tips I read it seems that it's the engine and it's dependent of the slot number where the adventurer is put, something strange as you could change that. Or perhaps it's the slot number when he join. Can someone provide a bit more explanation about this?

Thanks for the info. That's not cool at all. At least Spiderweb should offer a rebate for the OSX trilogy for those who already bought the Mac OS versions. For the savegame, that is weird and thanks you point it. Before continue play I have to decide if I'll stick to old versions in an emulator or not. And for the last Mac OS versions, no answer?

I'm using a Mac Intel and have Avernum 1 to 3 for Mac OS. I installed them in an emulator and they seem run well from a quick try I did. But is there any way to update them to the OSX version? I suppose I could install the demo and request a code but I feel it tedious when I have the CD. Is there any way to do the update? Also I'm not sure that I have the last version of each but cannot find what was the last Mac OS version for each. Where find this information?

It's a suggestion a little weird, but older avernum have Mac OS versions that could probably be emulated in Sheepshaver. I have seen report of people that succeed to make it run in Unbuntu but it's not in English. Some links for the emulator: http://gwenole.beauchesne.info/en/projects/sheepshaver http://www.emaculation.com/ (check also the forums here) If you want attempt this weird road you can contact me by PM so I could send you some base files as some startup disk image of various Mac OS and other files. But that will be only for older Avernum, not the 5.

Originally Posted By: Earth2025 You mean where you stole Solberg's papers? 1 way is to send fighters to fight and spellcasters keep fighters alive until 2 Snowballs is left and fighters block Snowballs way to scs and focus mainly to 1 enemy. Yes, I believed it was the east tower I hadn't found yet. If I did something closely like you suggest I had the two fighters dead quite fast in one or two rounds. I could perhaps optimized their equipment against the attacks but that's one point very unclear for a newbie, the type of attacks. Well the control foe spells worked nicely. But all of that end in not having stole the paper (yet) but to try and see it wasn't the east tower, so I reloaded. I had to give a quick look to the walkthrough to find the east tower. Well I wonder how I didn't found before. Anyway, now I know that I hadn't to do this very rude fight but to get few stuff but not that much and for a path I'll not follow for this play.

No no it's east tower and if I'm not wrong there's two quest linked to it and one isn't put in quest book. I have done the test you mention quite easily. The spell is in fact quite strong. For the east tower I finally did it. I made a quick test with a control foe scroll and for two attempt one succeed so I decided take my chance and eventually spend the 4 scroll I had. I buffered at max and enter in fight mode before and made two summon (still minor) that I buffer too (health, shield, haste). And I gave a control foe scroll to each char. I got luck and the first two worked. I killed two statues with the help of the two other then started attack one controlled but the second controlled stopped to be controlled before I killed the other. But that's been enough to kill them all. At worst my rogue would have die but in the end they switch attack the mage and rogue too often loosing attacks and none die... Rha now let see the secrets! Cough cough I realize that my east tower could not be the right east tower! LOL. I mean the isolated tower in the east.

Thanks, I forget I could check the full list in the sticky post.

I could prefer the Exile engine but wouldn't like to miss some nice details added in the remake version.

I rediscovered the old cd with exile that I don't think I ever played them. Is it really worth to play them? Aren't Avernum exact almost remake of them? I remember have played both Blades of Exile and Blades of Avernum and the second had stuff quite similar plus bonus. I prefer some choice of Exile like using a single icon when not in fight (if I remember well) but for me the Avernum version of Blades was an improvement and it's not about graphics.

I just quoted what's perhaps another in game hint about stuff to keep, it's from Moro, useful stuff includes: - Emerald, Ruby, Mined Crystal. - Some magic crystals with spell. - And... gold bar. Damit are those gold bars really useful except for selling them? I sold them all since the beginning. I notice many item maker don't propose stuff if you haven't the stuff for it so I could not have know gold bars had some use.

And is nobody have a hint for managing the fight in east tower? I feel this one more important to do it now when I could do Moref later. The four golems hit very hard and have long range that hit hard so put a man in front don't do it.

Hu hu the nasty spoil... ha well it's not that important and even give some relief to attempt disobey. In fact the scenario could have include such hint to make it more perverse. (Yes I took back my bad boy userid in those forums ie I was Crol... I was Vent then I was Crol then I am Vent PS: Please an admin, +17 to posts count!)

Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: It convinces me that this was, in fact, the reason in the designer's mind that the School wasn't closed. It still doesn't cohere with the rest of the story, but this was Jeff's reason. There are in fact few clues about that possibility but no evidence. BUT the clues or hints are so minor that I doubt that it's a valid assessment. Quote: Palhatis had time to MAKE AN INTELLIGENT SHADE AND STICK HIM IN THE CONTROL AREA, but he didn't have time to PRESS A BUTTON. I think that it's not right, you are doing the same error than Thuryl: You are doing an interpration of more than there is in the text and you accuse your interpretation to not be coherent. In fact it just proves your interpretation is wrong. A first interpretation you are doing is that he didn't press the button because of time reason. Wrong, there's no evidence that time is the cause. Secondly, there's no evidence that this construct has been build for this occasion. Furthermore there are evidence that there's most chance it wasn't build for this occasion, another quote: Research done in the school: "Magical thinking devices. This is irrelevant to my message." Quote: And Thuryl's point is correct: pressing the button did NOT release some unknown danger. The mages were familiar with the cleanup system, because THEY BUILT IT. Again, I don't agree, there are evidence they had no clean-up mechanism ready and that Pahlatis build one during the last week. Quote: And moreover, the statement, "he made sure that the controls to the waste disposal unit remained. These controls might still be activated," indicates that Palhatis specifically knew what the controls did. I agree, and as he build up the cleaning solution during the last week, we could hope he knew how use it. Quote: I've been thinking, "This is all very interesting, but there is much more to this story." Palhatis's statement, "my speaking out against the evacuation and what we're leaving behind have only made me enemies," seems to indicate that Vinnia hates him and eventually murders him primarily because he wants to clean up the waste. I disagree, when this was written by Palhatis he hadn't setup yet a cleanup solution. So "because he wants to clean up the waste" is wrong. Quote: Palhatis had time to make an entire covert setup for someone else to come along and push a couple of buttons and clean up all of the waste, but there was so little time before the school closed that cleaning up the waste would delay the closing of the school and therefore anger the Empire. This doesn't make sense. I agree, there's a strong hole here but I disagree that "it doesn't make sense". From the archeological point of view, there is a lack of clues to make an interpretation about this point. There's still a place forme some supposition that are neither complicate nor silly. So it's just a hole, nothing else. Quote: Yes, one can make up explanations that turn all of this into reasonable plot material. But a true archeological scenario would not require the player to invent explanations to fill plot holes. The story of what had happened before would become central to gameplay. I disagree, archeology is strongly based on inventing explanation, you never get 100% clear and certain conclusions. That said, some hole should have been fill, at least partialy. Quote: Having said all of this, I still like VoDT. I don't think these points are critical to the enjoyment of the scenario. I just think it could've been better if more was done with this. I agree... and for my taste, that's a better way of improvement than developing the moral here. For a better moral development, the scenario should have been totally different in my opinion, at least in order to prevade a good fun.

Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Funny how they had the time to destroy an entire floor of the School, but not to press a button, isn't it? Do you think that the people that destroyed the school knew the existence of the push button? Could you quote any fact showing that? Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: You've made your point, but you've also shown that the scenario still has serious plot holes that it doesn't satisfactorily fill. Hole like the "hole" you quoted above? There are holes but what are the holes? Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: As for the last two messages, it's clear from the context that they relate to two conditions that didn't apply to the mages closing the School: the party not knowing exactly what all the machinery does, and the defenses having failed over time after the School was closed. Really? For me the hole is that the party could make the second guess. The first guest is coming from another part I didn't quoted here. I quote it: It says "Activate Purification Process. Danger - Safety Off" Next to the light is a tiny switch. You could push the switch. However, you're a tiny bit nervous about the whole Safety thing. At the reverse, I don't see any evidence that those assessment wasn't valid in the past. Saying the reverse is only pure guess based on no quoted fact. Or can you quote any?

Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: But let's be clear here: are you saying that the scenario would not be better if Vinnia's motives were explored more thoroughly? Vinnia motive are pretty clear for me, firstly she never new the existence of the push button, secondly she doesn't care murdering many people why she would care about a hypotetical future pollution that won't happen during her life? Vinnia is just ambitious, avid of power and she doesn't care of human life. No I really don't care to have that developed in the scenario. A really interesting development of that would have required much more text development than possible in this scenario. Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: If it truly is an archeological scenario, then let's do archeology! Lay pieces of evidence all over the deserted school, and let the player piece them all together! That would be really fun, I think. I agree improving the archeological part could really improve the scenario. All the Vahnatai part should have been deeply changed, developed in a more subtil way. But I disagree that everything should be clear with 100% certitude. Anyway some holes should have been felt like why Pahlatis couldn't push the button and what was the difficulties of dialoguing with Vinnia. There are many possibilities to improve the scenario and developing its moral is certainly not the best. Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: About your edited part: as usual, I have no idea what you're talking about. Or rather, I think I do, but it seems rather childish, and the fact that you're "joking" doesn't make it any better.

About the baddie in VoDT: Quote: Originally written by Kelandon: Do you ever fight Vinnia or attempt to dispose of Vinnia? No. But do you ever fight pollution or attempt to dispose of it? Yes. The term was meant in a gameplay sense, that the player spends most of the scenario trying to defeat pollution, not trying to defeat Vinnia. And heck, if anything, Vinnia and pollution are on the same side. Is a volcano bad? Is a tempest bad? No and there's no debate about that point. For the same reason, the pollution effect isn't bad. You need get a people to get a baddies. That's even more true because it was a 'baddie' from a moral point of view.

I'm suprised that anybody is agree with many things I'm reading here. Ha well, I'll answer another time but before. ***** VoDT STRONG SPOIL FOLLOW ******* ***** VoDT STRONG SPOIL FOLLOW ******* ***** VoDT STRONG SPOIL FOLLOW ******* It's a series of quotes taken from my play of VoDT BoE. I put in bold some parts, are you able to explain all those parts? 1 - The succession of main past events P1: There's nothing but several rows of bare pedestals and this official looking proclamation, pinned to the wall: "BY THE ORDER OF EMPEROR STEWART, MOST HIGH RULER OF THE EMPIRE.It is now officially decreed that the School of Magery, located in Skylark Vale, cease operations immediately. The deadline for ceasing of operations is one week from receipt of this proclamation.The school is to be sealed, and all magical texts returned to Empire custody or destroyed. The School is to be permanently sealed, and all students and faculty are to return to Empire custody. Anyone interfering with the carrying out of this order will be disciplined in the most severe way. A similar fate will await those entering the School later than one week from now. That is all." The proclamation is dated 130 years ago. Emperor Stewart has been dead for a century. P2: The shade: "The leaders of the Empire decided that magical power could only be trusted when centralized under their direct control. The research of the School of Magery was so successful that it was the first to be closed." P3: A quick inspection reveals it to be a page from the journal of someone named Palhatis: "Curse that Vinnia! It is bad enough that we are being shut down. Must she also force us to abdicate all responsibility? I must do all I can to prevent the disaster I expect. If she finds out, though ..." P4: Palhatis journal: "It is clear that she listens to the Empire and no one else. She works against us as well. I know that she speaks against me. I can hear her now. 'Palhatis schemes against us. Palhatis is a traitor. Palhatis spreads rumors.'" P5: Palhatis journal: "I don't know what she plans against me, but my speaking out against the evacuation and what we're leaving behind have only made me enemies. I wonder what is to become of me." That's all that was written on the page. P6: A shade: "I am a magical construct, created to deliver certain programmed messages, I was placed here by the mage Palhatis." P7: The shade: "The School was only given one week to close. For this reason, much virulently poisonous waste was left inside. Any leaks would result in incredible destruction. This upset Palhatis, so he took steps to prevent a disaster." "Although all of the controls and devices in the School were to be deactivated, he made sure that the controls to the waste disposal unit remained. These controls might still be activated.". P8: Wedged between to moldering tomes, you find a note, which seems to have never reached its addressee: "Pergaltho - Vinnia plans something. I know not what. She means us no good, though.""Desperate times, my friend. I have done my best in Master Control to make sure disaster can avoided. We can only hope someone makes it down there, before disaster strikes. - Palhatis." P9: The dragon: "It is strange. Just before the humans left, a lone wizard came to me. He did me a kindness. He told me of the nature of my cell. He said his name was Palhatis, for what little that is worth. The wizard was bothered about my being left here. He said he could not free me, but could tell me how to be freed later. If someone would free me, I would reward them. I can give instructions." P10: Someone has carelessly left a note on top of this desk. It's brittle and yellowed with age, but still readable. "It is time. Get Palhatis and Pergaltho to Visitor's Quarters. I will do the rest. - Vinnia" P11: In Phalathis desk: You search through the ashes and find a scrap of paper which escaped the fire. it reads:"Vinnia wants to meet with us. Does not bode well. Fortunately, the tools are in place. If the disaster does occurs, it will still be possible to undo ..." P12: Two bodies are slumped against the wall of this cavern. They must have been mages. Their traditional robes still bear not only the insignia of Empire mages, but the dark blood stains of their owners. These two were stabbed to death.They've been here for quite some time. Only bones remain, leaving you to wonder: for what offense were these two mages brought here to be murdered? - That's not necessary Palhatis and Pergaltho but that could be. P13: The shade: "The mage Palhatis was one of the administrators for the School of Magery. When the Empire closed the School, he was murdered." P14 - Kobolds inscription: SACRUD HISTRY OF GULZUS TRIBE IN MEMRY OF DEAD AND LOZT WE SEE BAD MAGUZ LEEV CAVES AND GO IN CAVES TO GET NEW GRATE HOME TO LIV IN!DEN WE GO IN BUT GATEZ CLOZ BEHIND US AND WE IS STUCK AND MAGES LAUGH AT US AND SAY PLACE CLOSED FOREVER AND WE STAY HERE AND LIVE AS WELL WE CAN 2 - Empire will and violence P1, P2, P10 E1: The shade: "Many here were killed by Vinnia, on orders from the Empire, when the school was closed. It was thought that they were disloyal." E2: You find the body of a murdered mage. She was barricaded up here behind several force barriers, and left to starve. Ugly business. E3: Many years ago, four mages were brought into this cavern and murdered. Their multiply stabbed bodies are arrayed before you. Whoever closed the School of Magery, they wanted to close it for good. E4: Administration level: At first, it seems that you've found areas that have been struck by the inevitable decay. This floor is in an advanced state of disrepair. The walls have collapsed, the ceiling has caved in in places, and rubble and debris are everywhere.Looking closer, however, you realize that the decay was not natural. The walls and rubble have been scorched by fire, and the structures look less like they've fallen apart and more like they were torn apart. Before the school was closed, someone went to an awful lot of effort to make sure that this level was blown to pieces. E5: About a library: This is very interesting. This room must have contained a number of spell books. Before the School was abandoned, however, someone came here, and, with a few well placed fireballs, burned them all. Considering the amount of ash and charred paper here, it must have been quite a library. You look over the wreckage, stunned by the sheer waste of it, and can only wonder who would do such a thing. E6: Here is yet another area that was blown up before the School was abandoned. You haven't a clue what these rooms were used for. The destroyers were thorough. E7: You find another room which was destroyed before the School was closed. You have little doubt that plenty of invaluable magical texts were destroyed. 3 - Vinnia personality P3, P4, P5, P8, P10, P11, P12, E1 V1: Although the desk is empty, you notice that there's a small piece of paper crumpled underneath it. It reads: "Don't forget. Caretaker key left with Provost. Healing Scepter still with Apothecary. Be sure to recover.""If only we were given more time. Vinnia will have my head if they're left. Be sure not to forget." V2: The shade: "Vinnia was an administrator, and very loyal to the Empire." 4 - Danger of pushing the button B1: If you don't push the button: Probably a wise move. This isn't a suicide mission. B2: If you don't insert the crystal: For all you know, you're about to bring a river of deadly goo pouring in on you. You back away, and the hole disappears.

Ho man I was kidding, well I forgot the smiley but I believed the kidding was very clear. Also, common you was kidding me when you supposed I didn't read your post. Or that was a provoke? Ok I removed the kidding part. EDIT: Well afterall if just a kidding give me the win, that's not that bad! I WIN, I WIN, I WIN!