Slawbug

My original skill points went, IIRC: • 3 to Priest Spells (making 5 with the Pure bonus) • 5 to Mage Spells • 4 to Luck • 2 to Dexterity (3 skill points remaining) After that I pumped Dex up to 8, Luck up to 7, and (once I got to Formello) Mage Spells to 6. (Yes, there are items much later that boost Mage Spells but I'm not insane enough to wait THAT long to get Unlock Doors...) With the exception of Nephil and Nephar Archers, who get a very annoying 30% bonus using bows, this minor investment into dodging skills gave me ratings of no more than 20% against pretty much everything. I'm undecided on what to pump now. I can pump Dex and Luck further, but those returns get halved once I get their boost items -- and the Clover Boots aren't far off. Similarly, if I go for Gymnastics, the Nephil bonus plus item bonuses will eventually halve the value. The first few points will be cheap -- unless you figure in the cost of 4 points of Strength, which makes them very expensive. I could just pump Priest Spells in anticipation of Enduring Shield. I think I may just save up my skill points and put them all into Defense after I get to Silvar, with leftovers going to Magery (hi, Cecil).

My original skill points went, IIRC: • 3 to Priest Spells (making 5 with the Pure bonus) • 5 to Mage Spells • 4 to Luck • 2 to Dexterity (3 skill points remaining) After that I pumped Dex up to 8, Luck up to 7, and (once I got to Formello) Mage Spells to 6. (Yes, there are items much later that boost Mage Spells but I'm not insane enough to wait THAT long to get Unlock Doors...) With the exception of Nephil and Nephar Archers, who get a very annoying 30% bonus using bows, this minor investment into dodging skills gave me ratings of no more than 20% against pretty much everything. I'm undecided on what to pump now. I can pump Dex and Luck further, but those returns get halved once I get their boost items -- and the Clover Boots aren't far off. Similarly, if I go for Gymnastics, the Nephil bonus plus item bonuses will eventually halve the value. The first few points will be cheap -- unless you figure in the cost of 4 points of Strength, which makes them very expensive. I could just pump Priest Spells in anticipation of Enduring Shield. I think I may just save up my skill points and put them all into Defense after I get to Silvar, with leftovers going to Magery (hi, Cecil).

I think it's fair to say that there is a core Spidweb engine, and however the technical details may have changed over time, if you look at the big picture, every game is pretty similar. Each game has its own variations, and different variations will appeal to different people. If you're going to insult each other, at least have a good reason for it! Bashing each other over something so subjective is just silly.

Enduring Priest Update: As with Synergy, the opening sections of the game have been pretty easy. I'm through Fort Draco now. I was a little stingier with my skill points, so high dex has given me a dodge rate of 80-99% against pretty much everything. No First Aid, but that's been fine; I've just been picking up all the food on the cave floor (there's a LOT) and using it. Magic items are A LOT better when you're a singleton. The 3 AP cost basically means you get a free action out of them, and when you only have one action per turn, that's a much greater difference. I've been saving every magic item, and healing potions, Ice Bolt scrolls and the like have actually been fairly helpful in the stickiest situations -- the Fire Lizards under Khrosoth come to mind. They don't sell for much, anyway, and gold is *clearly* not going to be an impediment in this game. Otherwise, Acid Spray is definitely the most important spell for me right now. The most annoying thing has been not having any Tool Use and having to wait until after clearing the Haunted Mines to get Unlock Doors! I've been making a list of all the locked doors and boxes, and I'm not sure how many I'm going to go back for. There are some that I was really mad about, though, especially the storeroom in Grindstone with the huge piles of loot, including two Piercing Crystals. None of the traps have stopped me yet, though some have come close; they will probably stop coming close once I get better armor and pump luck some, so FEC resists are higher.

Enduring Priest Update: As with Synergy, the opening sections of the game have been pretty easy. I'm through Fort Draco now. I was a little stingier with my skill points, so high dex has given me a dodge rate of 80-99% against pretty much everything. No First Aid, but that's been fine; I've just been picking up all the food on the cave floor (there's a LOT) and using it. Magic items are A LOT better when you're a singleton. The 3 AP cost basically means you get a free action out of them, and when you only have one action per turn, that's a much greater difference. I've been saving every magic item, and healing potions, Ice Bolt scrolls and the like have actually been fairly helpful in the stickiest situations -- the Fire Lizards under Khrosoth come to mind. They don't sell for much, anyway, and gold is *clearly* not going to be an impediment in this game. Otherwise, Acid Spray is definitely the most important spell for me right now. The most annoying thing has been not having any Tool Use and having to wait until after clearing the Haunted Mines to get Unlock Doors! I've been making a list of all the locked doors and boxes, and I'm not sure how many I'm going to go back for. There are some that I was really mad about, though, especially the storeroom in Grindstone with the huge piles of loot, including two Piercing Crystals. None of the traps have stopped me yet, though some have come close; they will probably stop coming close once I get better armor and pump luck some, so FEC resists are higher.

Vahnatai creationism?!?!?

Heh. Cool. Though frankly, not using bows and spells (or even not using them much) may be rather more of an obstacle than not using broadswords.

Heh. Cool. Though frankly, not using bows and spells (or even not using them much) may be rather more of an obstacle than not using broadswords.

Well holy frijoles, Enduring Shield and Enduring Armor are REALLY GOOD. As it turns out, the descriptions to many of the protective spells lie, in particular Protection which doesn't increase dodge rate at all. Enduring Shield and Enduring Armor both increase it by 1-2% per point of priest skill (/spellcraft/magery), plus a base bonus of about 10% for Shield or about 18% for Armor. While it's possible there's a maximum cap on shield strength, I haven't been able to find one. Also I've only tested with one level of the spell learnt. What does this mean? For our singleton tank, that opens up THREE new stats which increase dodge rate by 1.5% -- with no 10-cap! Once your main dodge stats hit 10, that makes these skills a better defensive investment than Defense or Luck, and likely better than Dex and Gymnastics since they will be cheaper. But even better, they also increase the strength of priestly offenses like Repel Spirit and Divine Retribution. With this discovery, a singleton almost begins to seem easy to me: • Nephil and Divinely Touched, plus your Dex investment, provide enough points in bow skills to make you a passable archer for free • A moderate investment to Str, Dex, Defense, Luck, and Gymnastics gives you a great natural dodge • After that, you can pump Priest Spells, Spellcraft, and Magery like crazy, with help from DT and Pure Spirit, to further boost your dodge via enduring spells, while also providing a very good priestly attack As for other skills: • I prefer Pure Spirit to Natural Mage. Even if you DO go for Dispel Barrier, you'll get more skill point value out of Pure Spirit, since you are also pumping priest skill manually. If you forego any armor to be able to cast, say, Haste, the enduring bonus will likely make up for it. • Mage Spells: 19 points gets you Haste, 26 gets Slow, 42 gets Unlock and Augmentation. The latter is really unnecessary since potions can replace it. I'm almost certain that Unlock will give you access to equipment making it well worth the 16 points beyond Haste and Slow, which seem like a pretty reasonable investment. You can pay 91 points total to get to Dispel Barrier, but I'm skeptical that that's worthwhile. • Arcane Lore: Investing 10 skill points will get you all the relevant spells if you're patient. Probably worthwhile, as your spell stats will eventually reach this range and the lore provides more bonuses to your key spells than a single magery point. • Nature Lore: I suspect that a certain investment might pay itself back eventually, but I guess it's not worth it given the tardiness of Strine. With this efficient character design, I believe I'm now ready to join Synergy in the singleton crusade. Happy new year!

Well holy frijoles, Enduring Shield and Enduring Armor are REALLY GOOD. As it turns out, the descriptions to many of the protective spells lie, in particular Protection which doesn't increase dodge rate at all. Enduring Shield and Enduring Armor both increase it by 1-2% per point of priest skill (/spellcraft/magery), plus a base bonus of about 10% for Shield or about 18% for Armor. While it's possible there's a maximum cap on shield strength, I haven't been able to find one. Also I've only tested with one level of the spell learnt. What does this mean? For our singleton tank, that opens up THREE new stats which increase dodge rate by 1.5% -- with no 10-cap! Once your main dodge stats hit 10, that makes these skills a better defensive investment than Defense or Luck, and likely better than Dex and Gymnastics since they will be cheaper. But even better, they also increase the strength of priestly offenses like Repel Spirit and Divine Retribution. With this discovery, a singleton almost begins to seem easy to me: • Nephil and Divinely Touched, plus your Dex investment, provide enough points in bow skills to make you a passable archer for free • A moderate investment to Str, Dex, Defense, Luck, and Gymnastics gives you a great natural dodge • After that, you can pump Priest Spells, Spellcraft, and Magery like crazy, with help from DT and Pure Spirit, to further boost your dodge via enduring spells, while also providing a very good priestly attack As for other skills: • I prefer Pure Spirit to Natural Mage. Even if you DO go for Dispel Barrier, you'll get more skill point value out of Pure Spirit, since you are also pumping priest skill manually. If you forego any armor to be able to cast, say, Haste, the enduring bonus will likely make up for it. • Mage Spells: 19 points gets you Haste, 26 gets Slow, 42 gets Unlock and Augmentation. The latter is really unnecessary since potions can replace it. I'm almost certain that Unlock will give you access to equipment making it well worth the 16 points beyond Haste and Slow, which seem like a pretty reasonable investment. You can pay 91 points total to get to Dispel Barrier, but I'm skeptical that that's worthwhile. • Arcane Lore: Investing 10 skill points will get you all the relevant spells if you're patient. Probably worthwhile, as your spell stats will eventually reach this range and the lore provides more bonuses to your key spells than a single magery point. • Nature Lore: I suspect that a certain investment might pay itself back eventually, but I guess it's not worth it given the tardiness of Strine. With this efficient character design, I believe I'm now ready to join Synergy in the singleton crusade. Happy new year!

I'm gonna look into this. Incidentally, I also looked up the arcane lore details. Almost all spells can be had with 10 lore, and very few take more than 12 (just Host and Blow at 15, I believe). Retribution only takes 12, and if you want to wait to finish Lark's quest, that one seems to take no lore at all. I say "only" because you can pump lore by 6 from using the right items. These may not show up until late, I'm not sure, but between those and Cecil, it's an investment of only 10 skill points to get to 12 arcane lore... I have been trying to get the game to spit out pile of dirt details to me, since they aren't stored in the scripts. That's harder, though. I've gotten it to do so, but only when starting a game or teleporting and only for nearby piles, so that's not much help at all. Meh.

I'm gonna look into this. Incidentally, I also looked up the arcane lore details. Almost all spells can be had with 10 lore, and very few take more than 12 (just Host and Blow at 15, I believe). Retribution only takes 12, and if you want to wait to finish Lark's quest, that one seems to take no lore at all. I say "only" because you can pump lore by 6 from using the right items. These may not show up until late, I'm not sure, but between those and Cecil, it's an investment of only 10 skill points to get to 12 arcane lore... I have been trying to get the game to spit out pile of dirt details to me, since they aren't stored in the scripts. That's harder, though. I've gotten it to do so, but only when starting a game or teleporting and only for nearby piles, so that's not much help at all. Meh.

It suddenly occurs to me that Enduring Shield and Armor are supposed to increase your dodge rate. According to the manual, "At higher skill, provides more protection for longer." Wowzers. I wonder how much difference skill makes? (Synergy, any ideas?) If it's at all significant, suddenly a priest-tank becomes very ideal. If it's enough of a difference, you can even pump priest skill enough to cast Retribution et al. quite well without feeling guilty about abandoning defense!

It suddenly occurs to me that Enduring Shield and Armor are supposed to increase your dodge rate. According to the manual, "At higher skill, provides more protection for longer." Wowzers. I wonder how much difference skill makes? (Synergy, any ideas?) If it's at all significant, suddenly a priest-tank becomes very ideal. If it's enough of a difference, you can even pump priest skill enough to cast Retribution et al. quite well without feeling guilty about abandoning defense!

A lot of the skills seem to be buggy that way. Gymnastics is capped at a few at a time, and something else -- I think it was either Luck or Tool Use -- only let me raise 10 at a time. (Yeah, yeah, I know...) A pretty weird, if harmless, bug.

I've culled a nice equipment listing from the script files. I've been adding a little bit of information from the unique item locations thread. I first started doing this when trying to think out what the best strategy for a singleton would be, and I needed more information about what items were out there. Anyway, I hope this will be useful to someone. Suggestions are welcome as well. http://home.uchicago.edu/~tbennett/av4items.htm

Every new game and every change to the basic Spidweb engine(s) brings with it a load of complaints. That's a pattern you'll find everywhere else in the world, too; and change is usually good despite the complaints. But I guess things are a little different here since Spidweb's earliest successes were no-frills products founded on old-fashioned gameplay and interesting stories, and spurning fancy graphics. Exile vs. Realmz seemed to many like David vs. Goliath, but Exile got a lot of support from that conflict, especially as it grew more refined. Quote: Slith couldn't have been creationof the Vantahi, because they camefrom a diffrent world entirley, and were banished there, making them the only real aliens in the game. If by different world entirely, you just mean another set of caves, deeper in the earth, and warmer. Certainly that's all that was said in Exile 1 or 2...

Question: Traps CAN just be set off, can't they? I know some of them have rather disastrous effects, but couldn't you find ways to survive via buffing, in the worst cases trading 1 invulnerability potion for a trap you really want to get past?

Question: Traps CAN just be set off, can't they? I know some of them have rather disastrous effects, but couldn't you find ways to survive via buffing, in the worst cases trading 1 invulnerability potion for a trap you really want to get past?

It worries me that the later enemies have stronger attacks (they'll hit you a lot more, unless you pump defense loads), but they also take less damage from spells, and without dedicating stat-building I'm not sure how effective those priest spells are going to be for you...

It worries me that the later enemies have stronger attacks (they'll hit you a lot more, unless you pump defense loads), but they also take less damage from spells, and without dedicating stat-building I'm not sure how effective those priest spells are going to be for you...

Actually, I think location is the most important part, as all the stats and special effects are easily accessible in the script file. The Heartstriker, for example, does not do any special damage. It just has a nice sound effect.

I still haven't finished the chitrach caves. At some point I really do need to play the game...

I still haven't finished the chitrach caves. At some point I really do need to play the game...

Kel: I am hard pressed to think of ANY RPG, computerized or otherwise, in which you would expect a loner to gain the same quantity of levels as a group would, in toto. It's an extremely standard part of an RPG that it takes more experience (either more raw points, or harder enemies required for the same number of points) to get from level 2 to 3 than from level 1 to 2. Furthermore -- the fact that experience scales is very tenuously connected BOTH to lack of skill points AND to singleton difficulty. Experience scaled in Exile just the same way, but in Exile singletons were never difficult to run (except in terms of inventory management) -- both because of Silverlocke's potions, AND because the game mechanics made it fairly easy for even a medium level singleton with Bless to breeze through most encounters. [Also, nobody else brought up AP (Jeff just said PCs need to "work together") but it's worth pointing out that being attacked CAN take up AP if you get stunned. Anyone who's played a Guardian in Geneforge (without abusing Parry of course) can attest to the dangers there.]