Quiconque

Unless it changed in a version update at some point (I don't think so, but I am the wrong person to check with about that), in G5, the three original classes (Shaper, Guardian, and Agent) had significant, permanent, built-in armor and resistances that the six rebel-type classes did not have. This was not intentional. What happened was that in G4, Shapers, Guardians, and Agents existed only as NPCs, and so their base creature types were given all the regular sorts of damage resistances that NPCs with fighting ability tend to have. (Because NPCs don't manually add skill points the way the player does, of course.) Jeff just forgot to take these resistances back out when those creatures became available for use as the PC again. Especially if you play as an agent/infiltrator with few to no creations, this can make a noticeable difference in how easy or hard the game is. (Also, I can't remember if these baked-in resistances display on the status screen or not.)

In normal difficulty, you can pretty run anything and if it's at least half-baked it will work. There have been numerous threads and posts here dumping on Shock Troopers. I'm not going to reiterate years of abuse, but basically, it's not that you can't do OK with them, it's that they are strictly worse than other options, without providing any kind of additional playstyle or anything like that. Also, I'm pre-emptively exiting the argument now, due to the history of these things going on forever...

"It would be a little tougher than with a Shaper (because magic > fighting) but not much" No, that will be way more than a little tougher.

You can join each of them in sequence, but you can only belong to one at a time. Also, note that G1 has more than one set of alliance options. You have the Awakened/Obeyers/Takers, and you also have Trajkov/Goettsch.

One rule above all: KEEP MULTIPLE SAVES AT ALL TIMES. Geneforge makes this easy. Lots of slots, easy to select between them. So just keep a few backup saves -- make a new one every time you go to a new zone, for example. That way, even if you do something you feel "ruins" your game experience, you can turn back the clock and undo it. If you're not worried about a "ruinous" action this is less important. The "big" decisions, like which faction(s) (if any) you align yourself with, are generally VERY obvious in-game.

On that note, @Puksis, remember that lots of kids play Spiderweb games and the boards are supposed to be family friendly. The Code of Conduct is now hidden in plain sight (under "Guidelines" which is so centrally located I couldn't find it just now :D), so if you haven't read it, take a look: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/guidelines/ This isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder. That said, given the way this thread has veered, I'm locking it. Adios.

For the sake of not putting this off any longer I'm going to stick to people I can evaluate based on what I already know and/or through simple googling. Sorry, historical conquerors whose actual actions I am slightly vague on! I'll come back to you later if I have time. Lucca Simone de Beauvoir Robo Princess Leia Buffy Summers Henry Agard Wallace Micah Uncle Iroh Jean-Luc Picard Lady Gaga Erika Redmark Zuko Sylak Eowyn Captain America Aragorn Katara FrogGraham NelsonEmpress Prazac Abigail Adams Honor Harrington Lisa Simpson R2-D2 Magus AangLord Havelock VetinariKing ArthurCleopatra (Shakespeare) Peter Gabriel Orson Welles Mary Shelley Kathryn Janeway Puddleglum Professor Oak Sherlock Holmes Ayla Cleopatra Jones Redbeard Zaphod Beeblebrox Julius Caesar Blaise Pascal Olga of Kiev Boudica CiceroThe Doctor Toph Julius Martov Lord British Melanchion Faramir Dumbledore StarrusGladwellManfred RedmarkBob the Builder Billie HolidayKen Burns Eeyore MarleMultivac Sokka Pat Paulsen Seth MacFarlane Khan Noonien Singh Werdna Mal Reynolds Clifford the Big Red Dog Aslan Sir Topham Hatt James T. Kirk Henri IIIAyn RandCleopatra (real) Daddy WarbucksPat Sajak Cardinal Richelieu Sulla Lavos Pilgor the Goat Curious George Kikuchiyo Miss Piggy Lyndon LaRouche Lady Macbeth Benjamin Sisko Darth Vader Evil Abed Crassus PompeySpider Rand al'Thor Caligula Yosemite Sam George Jetson One of the 7 dwarves (Disney) Guybrush ThreepwoodJulie d'Aubigny Zapp Brannigan Grima, Wormtongue Yogi Bear Kylo Ren Harcourt Fenton Mudd George Wickham Ivan the Terrible Genghis Khan Morgoth The White Witch Hawthorne Emperor PalpatineDorikasElizabeth Báthory KefkaSmaug The Allied Mastercomputer I wasn't sure Smaug was going to be dethroned, but you did it, Dinti.

Important note about that dump (which I made over a decade ago): While MOST of the responses for a given NPC are all listed in a row, if the response differs based on certain conditions (for example, if you've completed a quest) it is listed in a totally separate part of the dump with no easily legible indication of which NPC it is used with. These are some of the most important keywords and responses, obviously, so beware.

1. Nero: way too much ambiguity in the historical record for me to place him with any precision. 2. Leonidas, Spartacus: inadequate detail to say much beyond "eh" 3. Burger King: zero detail 4. Cinipioatoato: despite my love of antiquity, and with apologies, I just don't care about some of these guys. I'm also interested to note that there is now at least one person on the list whom I view identically to one of the current candidates. Not only would I rank them together, I see them as having exactly the same strengths and weaknesses. Lucca Simone de Beauvoir Robo Princess Leia Henry Agard Wallace Micah Uncle Iroh Jean-Luc Picard Lady Gaga Erika Redmark Zuko Sylak Eowyn Captain America Aragorn Katara FrogGraham NelsonEmpress Prazac Abigail Adams Honor Harrington Lisa Simpson R2-D2 Magus AangLord Havelock VetinariKing ArthurCleopatra (Shakespeare) Peter Gabriel Orson Welles Mary Shelley Kathryn Janeway Puddleglum Professor Oak Sherlock Holmes Ayla Cleopatra Jones Redbeard Zaphod Beeblebrox Julius Caesar Olga of Kiev Boudica CiceroThe Doctor Toph Julius Martov Lord British Melanchion Faramir Dumbledore StarrusGladwellManfred RedmarkBillie HolidayKen Burns Eeyore MarleMultivac Sokka Pat Paulsen Seth MacFarlane Werdna Mal Reynolds Aslan James T. Kirk Henri IIIAyn RandCleopatra (real) Daddy WarbucksCardinal Richelieu Sulla Pilgor the Goat Kikuchiyo Miss Piggy Lyndon LaRouche Benjamin Sisko Darth Vader Evil Abed Crassus PompeySpider Rand al'Thor Caligula Yosemite Sam George Jetson One of the 7 dwarves (Disney) Guybrush ThreepwoodJulie d'Aubigny Zapp Brannigan Grima, Wormtongue Yogi Bear Harcourt Fenton Mudd George Wickham Ivan the TerribleGenghis Khan Hawthorne Emperor PalpatineDorikasElizabeth BáthorySmaug

1. Inadequate familiarity, sorry: Shodan, Cortana, Jonny Quest, Hari Seldon. 2. A few other minor shifts up and down. This list has gotten sprawling enough that if it's just a couple of places, I think I'm just going to make those when I see them without comment -- that's pretty minor. 3. For the Avatar folks, placing Sokka and Iroh was easy, but I actually found myself surprised by the order in which I ended up putting the four primary benders. 4. I'm also surprised that something else still hasn't happened at all. Lucca Simone de Beauvoir Robo Princess Leia Henry Agard Wallace Micah Uncle Iroh Jean-Luc Picard Lady Gaga Erika Redmark Zuko Sylak Eowyn Captain America Aragorn Katara FrogGraham NelsonEmpress Prazac Abigail Adams Honor Harrington Lisa Simpson R2-D2 Magus AangLord Havelock VetinariKing ArthurCleopatra (Shakespeare) Peter Gabriel Orson Welles Mary Shelley Puddleglum Professor Oak Sherlock Holmes Ayla Cleopatra Jones Zaphod Beeblebrox Olga of Kiev BoudicaThe DoctorToph Julius Martov Melanchion Faramir Dumbledore StarrusGladwellManfred RedmarkBillie HolidayKen Burns Eeyore MarleMultivac Sokka Pat Paulsen Seth MacFarlane Mal Reynolds Aslan Henri IIIAyn RandCleopatra (real) Daddy WarbucksCardinal Richelieu Pilgor the Goat Kikuchiyo Miss Piggy Lyndon LaRouche Darth Vader Evil AbedSpider Rand al'Thor Yosemite Sam George Jetson One of the 7 dwarves (Disney) Guybrush ThreepwoodJulie d'Aubigny Zapp Brannigan Grima, Wormtongue Yogi Bear Harcourt Fenton Mudd George Wickham Ivan the TerribleHawthorne Emperor PalpatineDorikasElizabeth BáthorySmaug

Ah, right, the 10-cap. It's only universally present in G1, but it persists for some stats for a varying number of games -- notably for the three shaping skills, which lasted through at least G4 IIRC.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Yeah, this is not quite accurate. Spellcraft 0 to 5 would be cheaper, sure. Spellcraft 10 to 15 would be a LOT more expensive. Remember that the cost difference between individual magic skills and Spellcraft is actually greatest for the strong magic classes. Pure magic infilitrators are great. They are close enough in effectiveness to melee/magic serviles that I don't really have an opinion about which is better. (Lifecrafters will still be stronger, ultimately, because the game is about shaping and shaping is deliberately super strong.)

1. Calling Pat Paulsen a presidential candidate seems a little misleading, but I guess he technically was on the primary ballot in New Hampshire a few times. 2. Don't hate me, but I never liked Spinal Tap, and haven't watched it in maybe 25 years, so I don't have much on those guys. 3. Just like last time I think it would be best not to include any forum members in the ranking. (Though honestly, a lot of you might end up with a relatively decent ranking.) 4. Oh good, the Marvel alternate universes are back. Initially I was going to just do one Cap for the comics and one for the modern movies. Ultimately, though, I have pretty much the same opinion of both of them. Captain America is easily one of least unfaithful of the MCU adaptations. And despite how often I hear him invoked as an exemplar of Lawful Good, and despite the flag, he's been operating shockingly deep in progressive, civil-libertarian territory since at least the 70's. 5. I think one Genesis member is enough. 6. Farscape goes in the "haven't watched, not sure I can briefly assess" category. 7. On further consideration, I'm moving Eowyn, Frog, Graham Nelson, and Aragorn down a varying but small number of steps. Lucca Simone de Beauvoir RoboPrincess Leia Henry Agard Wallace Sylak Eowyn Micah Jean-Luc Picard Lady Gaga Erika Redmark Captain America Aragorn FrogGraham NelsonEmpress Prazac Abigail Adams Honor Harrington R2-D2 MagusLord Havelock VetinariKing ArthurCleopatra (Shakespeare) Peter Gabriel Mary Shelley Puddleglum Professor OakCleopatra Jones Olga of Kiev BoudicaThe Doctor AylaMelanchion Faramir Dumbledore StarrusGladwellManfred RedmarkBillie HolidayKen Burns Eeyore MarleMultivac Pat Paulsen Seth MacFarlane Mal Reynolds Aslan Henri IIIAyn RandCleopatra (real)Cardinal Richelieu Pilgor the Goat Kikuchiyo Miss Piggy Lyndon LaRouche Darth Vader Evil AbedSpider Rand al'Thor One of the 7 dwarves (Disney) Guybrush ThreepwoodJulie d'Aubigny Grima, Wormtongue Harcourt Fenton Mudd George Wickham Ivan the TerribleHawthorne Emperor PalpatineDorikasElizabeth BáthorySmaug

Lucca Simone de Beauvoir EowynSylak RoboMicah Jean-Luc Picard Aragorn FrogGraham NelsonLady GagaEmpress Prazac Abigail Adams Honor Harrington R2-D2 MagusLord Havelock VetinariKing ArthurCleopatra (Shakespeare) Mary Shelley Puddleglum Professor OakOlga of KievThe Doctor AylaMelanchion FaramirDumbledore StarrusGladwellManfred RedmarkBillie HolidayKen Burns MarleMultivac Seth MacFarlane Aslan Henri IIIAyn RandCleopatra (real)Cardinal Richelieu Pilgor the Goat Darth Vader Evil AbedSpiderRand al'Thor One of the 7 dwarves (Disney) Guybrush ThreepwoodJulie d'Aubigny Grima, Wormtongue Harcourt Fenton Mudd Ivan the TerribleHawthorne Emperor PalpatineDorikasElizabeth BáthorySmaug Rahl: Don't know and seems difficult to briefly assess. Aslan: Boy, you gave me some trouble with this one! Robot Steve Irwin from the Future: If this is a thing I can't find it. Is this a thing? Goat simulator goat: Pilgor is a good stand-in for not having a President at all, basically.

You're speaking as if everyone here (1) is into ladies, and (2) thinks it's appropriate to objectify them, 90's fantasy artwork style.

Additions in bold: Lucca Simone de Beauvoir EowynSylak RoboMicah Jean-Luc Picard FrogGraham NelsonLady GagaEmpress Prazac Abigail Adams Honor Harrington R2-D2 MagusLord Havelock VetinariKing ArthurCleopatra (Shakespeare) Mary Shelley PuddleglumOlga of KievThe Doctor AylaMelanchion FaramirStarrusGladwellManfred RedmarkBillie HolidayKen Burns MarleMultivac Henri IIIAyn RandCleopatra (real)Cardinal Richelieu Darth VaderSpiderOne of the 7 dwarves (Disney)Julie d'Aubigny Grima, Wormtongue Harcourt Fenton Mudd Ivan the TerribleHawthorne Emperor PalpatineDorikasElizabeth BáthorySmaug Adama: I have to claim ignorance, I'm afraid, having never watched any of it and not feeling like Wikipedia will be adequate in this case. A few of these somewhat obscure historical rulers I'm having to leave out because I don't know much about them and I don't feel like I can generate adequate context to rank them accurately without significant research. There are a few names now where I see the potential for them to deserve a higher ranking, but have lowered them due to concerns that might or might not surface -- as with Multivac, I suppose.

Interesting picks! This has turned out to be a bit of a difficult task, trying to balance assessments of potential governing competency with those of likely ideological approach. Here's the list so far: Simone de Beauvoir Sylak Micah Graham Nelson Lady Gaga Empress Prazac Lord Havelock Vetinari King Arthur Cleopatra (Shakespeare) Olga of Kiev The Doctor Melanchion Starrus Gladwell Manfred Redmark Billie Holiday Ken Burns Multivac Ayn Rand Cleopatra (real) Cardinal Richelieu Spider One of the 7 dwarves (Disney) Julie d'Aubigny Hawthorne Dorikas Elizabeth Báthory Smaug Multivac would be a lot higher, except for that one pesky fatal problem. I don't actually find much need to separate the Doctors on this one, though perhaps if I cared more about that property I might. I also don't find much need to separate the Disney dwarves on this one. Interestingly, while it's easy to think of some people I'd take over Simone de Beauvoir, Smaug has got to be pretty close to the bottom of the list.

Hi Abydos, friendly neighborhood mod here. Since you already have a topic where you asked 2 of these 3 questions (less than half a day ago), please just continue that topic rather than making a new one. It's confusing to have two different topics that are about the exact same questions. Thanks. Locking this topic.

In the previous topic, I ranked everything and anything. Totally subjectively. People posted whatever they wanted me to rank, and I added it to the current list. New items were inserted at whatever ranking was appropriate. This time, I'm going to rank who I'd like to see as President of the United States. But I'm not going to do something boring like only ranking the actual candidates. Instead, you can suggest whoever you want. Suggestions do not even have to be American -- or human -- or alive -- or nonfictional. (Or over thirty-five, for that matter.) Suggestions do have to be persons; I can't really evaluate Nethergate for President. You can make a few different suggestions in one post if you like. To keep things interesting, let's say no actual candidates until the list has at least 20 other people on it, and even then no more than one actual candidate per post.  Let the pointless wanking ranking begin! It is happening again!

Melee was already viable. (It just wasn't optimal.) The servile makes it better. See the thread I originally linked for a lot of discussion of how it does so.

What? I definitely didn't say melee was optimal in G4. It's a better option in G4 than G3 entirely because of the existence of the Servile. Damage dice for melee weapons are d4 and d5 in all of G3-5, IIRC. The best game for melee is easily G2, because melee dice are still d8, and Parry is so OP (and therefore the Guardian). It's also good in G1, where you get the d8's, you get Anatomy, and importantly, there are very few magic spells, making magic a lot weaker.

Uh. When it comes to attacking from a distance, it is 100% sub-optimal, because magic. As you yourself say at the end of this quote... This is obviously an advantage over melee, but magic has the same advantage over melee.

There isn't a soft cap for battle magic (well, except in G1 when everything had soft caps). The diminishing returns are because each point in battle magic adds a static amount (1 die) to an attack damage pool that starts out larger, the higher your battle magic is (+ spellcraft). Going to from 4 battle magic to 5 is going to make a much bigger difference proportionally than going from 24 to 25. With mental magic on the other hand, each point is just a flat +5 (I think) to the % chance of success. Since enemy resistance is subtractive and also increases with their level, increasing MM is just as relevant later in the game (at higher MM + spellcraft) as it is earlier in the game. Anything is viable... but if you want to know what's optimal, missiles are sub-optimal. Compared to melee, they don't benefit from Quick Action. Compared to magic, they don't benefit from the investment in magic skills that every character is going to make. They also have the disadvantage that you want to save your best missiles for when you really need them, so most of the time you aren't attacking at peak effectiveness. This is especially true with the very best stuff -- Reaper Thorns and the like are good enough to compete with melee and magic, but they are too rare to use very often.

How does a missile agent run out of spell energy? The description "missile agent" doesn't make it sound like you're casting spells all the time... For Infilitrator magic splits, you can pretty much play it any of those ways. Personally I find that pumping Mental Magic makes more of a difference, since you experience diminishing returns with Battle Magic. YMMV. For Spellcraft vs specific magic skills, even if you're only pumping one specific skill, you'll generally want to increase both and favor whichever is cheaper. Magic-attackers don't really need a secondary attack type, because Firebolt is so incredibly cheap.