Rotdhizon vs Rotghroth

[mok]

Anyone used both of these?

Taking the basic critters (i.e., just putting 2 pts into INT) the RotDhizon uses 303 essence vs. 152 essence for your basic Rotghroth.

So...is the big guy worth 2 of his little cousins?

Or, at least, is he substantially better than the regular rotty?

[Contra]

The rodhizon is better than the Rotghroth, but would not be able to take on two at once. Having two Rotghroth eats more XP, though.

[Drakefyre]

I never found the XP-eating effect of creations to matter much.

[mok]

I have to agree w/ Drakefyre on the xp. I haven't noticed that I'm lower level as a shaper w/ 4 creations than I was as a solo agent. I'm leaving for Gull Island in a bit and I'm level 34. And the rest of my characters always ended up right around 39-41, so I think I'm on track for that.

 

On the original question, tho, I'm just looking for pure killing power. I took a fyora and a cryoa through most of the game together and (resistances to fire/cold aside) the cryoa was a bit better than the fyora. Not much, but definately better. Problem is, to keep them at roughly the same level, you need to spend more essence on the cryoa than the fyora as you increase their STR, DEX, etc. With the Rotties, it'd be even worse as each of their stats is 15+ essence to pump it up. I'm just wondering if it would be worth my (150+) essence to kill my Rotghroth and upgrade to a Rotdhizon in it's place.

 

(setting aside, for the moment, that I'd be better off spending the 150 essence on a nice gazer)

[Drakefyre]

Personally, I never put more essence into a creation beyond the 2 INT. If I gain a level of the appropriate shaping skill or creation, I'll absorb the creations and create new ones that are one or two levels higher.

[MichaelSword]

Quote:

Originally written by Drakefyre:
Personally, I never put more essence into a creation beyond the 2 INT. If I gain a level of the appropriate shaping skill or creation, I'll absorb the creations and create new ones that are one or two levels higher.

i agree 100%. i'm no expert at geneforge3 like most of you, but it never made sense to me to put points into creations. why use 15 of my valuable essence points to get another dozen hitpoints and maybe some other really really minor benefits when i could use those 15 essence to cast several minor heal spells or get more creations? but if others found it worth their while to put anything more then 2 INT into their creations, i'd definitely like to hear their strats.

i'm really hoping that in geneforge 4, there will be a better (scratch that, viable) system for upgrading your creations. i feel in the current setup, the 2 points of INT is basically an annoying hidden cost, and there is no reason to put points into other skills. i could rant about possibilities for hours...

[Lilith]

Some people have reported good results from making a single Thahd Shade and pumping up its Dexterity as much as possible; the point is to make a creation that's impossible to hit, and it works pretty well for the first couple of islands.

 

In general, though, you're right; there isn't a lot of point upgrading creations instead of just making more or better creations.

[mok]

Actually, I was attempting to take a fyora through the whole game with me. I've seen it posted that by the end of the game they can become quite powerful. Personally, I found that my drayk started off more powerful, and continued to be so throughout their time together. However, putting a few points into strength along the way (pre-drayk) made my fyora far superior (about 20%) in hitting my foes. Now, towards the end of the 4th island I noticed that the drayk was consistently doing about double damage (though, it was still weaker in the %age-to-hit dept.) and decided that it wasn't worth keeping my 80 essence fyora around any longer (despite a mild attachment I'd formed after 5 months of travel together).

 

So, for this experiment, I found that putting points into my fyora (especially as I did so from the very start) made a fairly effective little critter for a relatively cheap cost. In the end, the damage he did just didn't come out to be enough, and I had to remove him. (Same goes/went for his cousin, the cryoa)

 

However, my original question was, and still is, has anyone every taken a comparison of damage of a rotdhizon and a rotghroth side-by-side? I'm wondering if its actually worth spending the extra 150 essence on the big, bad cousin. I can tell you my ghroth is level 33 and has 590 hitpoints, 22 Str, 20 for dex/int/end. If I kill it right now and make a dhizon it comes out as level 39 and has 880 hitpoints, 26 str, 24 for dex/int/end. The big guy also costs me 303 essence (that's with just the basic 2 int) vs the 152 ess that my ghroth cost me (still with just the basic 2 int).

 

Now I can see the benefit of having the extra 300 hps, though not much will get the chance to inflict even the first 500. But is there a real increase in damage dealt? Is it better at stunning? These are the questions that plague me.

 

hmm.... I guess since I'm in the position to try it, and no one out there seems to have done so before, I'll try it. So hello extra save spot, goodbye helpful little drayk and cryodrayk, goodbye mr. ur-glaahk -- I'll see you all soon, I think.

 

(And then I'll let ya all know the results here later today or tomorrow.)

[Contra]

There sure is a difference from the Rothghroths that you meet in Monestary Caves and the Rodhizons. Those Rodh's take about the dubble to kill and hit way harder.

But it's always like that when it comes to NPC enemies.

[Detteh Mehkej]

From the datafiles:

Rodhzidron is just a higher-level Rothgoroth.

A 40 level Rodh is exactly the same as a 40 level Roth, except

1) it costs much more essence and

2) does not need a lot of experience to get to that point.

 

I don't have the files handy, but IIRS:

Roth has base-level 34, Rodh has base-level 40.

To make a Rodh, you need +3 more to battle shaping, which makes your new Roths level 36.

Not a big diference, if you ask me - some 4d12 of damage, when the roth would already be doing around 40d12.

[mok]

Ok, for the record, the Rotdhizon is NOT worth the extra investment of essence. I didn't wander all that far with both, but the difference in damage for most rogues was from avg damage of about 110 to an avg damage of about 125. The second attack seemed *slightly* more likely with the dhizon and the stun/slow effect seemed to be roughly the same. So essentially, I was paying an extra 150 essence for 310 hps -- very not worth it.

 

For the same cost as 1 rotdhizon, I could have had 2 rotgroths which would have done far more damage, and had more (total) hitpoints.

[Walter]

I remember in the creature faq for geneforge 2 the only differences were a higher creation level, and more hp. I made one in geneforge 3 and it still seemed to be the case. It probably isn't worth it, but was rather interesting to see once when near the end of the game I casted augmentation and essence armor on it and it ended up with over a thousand hp.

[Detteh Mehkej]

Ehm ... did you *read* my post?

I already *wrote* that the only difference between them is base level ...

 

I am the person responsible for the detailed creation data in the GF2 FAQ and I already have similar file on GF3.

 

On an alternate note, the differnce in to-hit percentage is because Rodhzidron has about 4 higher level, so it has 2 higher strength, which means 10% higher to-hit chance (and +2 levels of damage).

 

On an completely alternate note, the manuals *lie* about what strength and dexterity do.

Strength governs to-hit chance and damage of both melee and ranged attacks, even for magically based attacks.

[mok]

Yeah, I've noticed the thing about the strength and dex, too. Why is that? Was it sooooo difficult to either change the text to what it ought to be or swap the percentages around to be strength for melee and dex for missile?

[Detteh Mehkej]

Was that ever *reported*?

I mean officialy, through email, not here.