A question of Class?

[ParsnipBake]

Hello everyone,

 

Apologies if this has already been touched on in a previous post/thread, but I am curious why your character class (type?) isn't listed when you are playing?

 

As a beginner, I chose the default set of 4 characters and paid no attention to what character type they were (soldier, berserker etc). Now, on restarting, I notice that if you fiddle around you can read a little about each character type and its traits before you start, which really helps me to familiarize myself with each of their strengths and weaknesses, BUT when you start the game the roster lets you see all the stats, but doesn't give you basic character type info ("Is He/She a Shamen or an Archer...I forgot").

 

Am I missing something? It would help a newbie like me to know which character is which. The pictures don't give anything away...

 

Thanks in advance, and otherwise I am thoroughly enjoying this game. Love the light humour

[*i]

Avernum games are classless. The character classes are there only to give you a decent beginner build. After that, it makes no difference whatsoever.

[ParsnipBake]

Great, thanks for that.

 

I'm a bit overwhelmed with all these stats and traits tbh. Are there any tips you can give as to what might be a balanced mix (apart from the default set-up) to start me off with?

 

Cheers

[Demseinwetter]

It's definitely useful two have to characters for melee combat, one priest and one mage. As it is quite useful to have Divinely Touched as a trait on all of them, they all get a Spellcraft Bonus so probably all should have at least one point in Priest Spells to cast Minor Heal. Your Warriors should be Elite Warrior, your Priest Pure Spirit and your Mage Natural Mage (as second trait). The traits will develop your characters in a good way, already. Apart from that, check in the Strategy Central, which skills you can learn from a trainer in exchange for money, so you can buy 3 points from a trainer before investing skill points in them (you can only ever learn three points you haven't trained yet in any given skill.) The rest is really up to you and you can't really do anything wrong. Well, maybe except for investing skill points into nothing but tool use for all characters. You'll definitely want some points in Melee or Pole Weapons because they unlock the Battle Disciplines, which are vital for organized combat. But you can train Melee pretty early on and Pole a bit later, so you might want to invest in Strength for your fighters, it has the same effect, except for the Battle Discipline unlocking thingy. Your spellcasters will need some points in either Priest and Mage Spells, the traits will add some. There is also a Unlocking Hidden Skills thread which will tell you what exactly you need to buy to unlock Disciplines like Parry or Riposte, which can both come in handy. Or training towards Quick Strike. Also, your Melee Characters will need Quick Action, I usually leave it around ten to twelve, it gives you a good chance to get a free second swing which does lots of extra damage every almost every round. Most especially with a Dual Wielder, because the off hand also gets the chance for a second swing.

But most importantly, it's really up to your own taste. On Normal, only few monsters will give you a hard time, even when your party isn't perfectly built. All skills are useful, that's why they're there and there's nothing you can really do wrong. And if you just remember to buy the skills you think you lack in combat, you'll do fine. If you die a lot, buy Endurance (raises HP), if you run out of Spell Energy, buy Intelligence, attacks to weak, buy Strength, and so on.

 

 

[Student of Trinity]

That's all good advice.

 

The only thing more to emphasize is how a few of the special skills work. Tool Use tasks (opening locks and secret doors, and disarming traps) check only the single highest level in the party. So there's literally no point in more than one character having any points in this at all. Nature and Arcane Lore, on the other hand, and First Aid, all check the party total score. So here there's literally no point in spending three skill points to raise one character's Arcane Lore from 4 to 5, when you could spend two skill points to raise another character from 3 to 4. And you can feel free to regard the whole party's skill points as a shared resource, because although XP accrues individually, later in the game there are a lot of potions and crystals to be found that just give skill points to whomever uses them. So you can use these to compensate the poor sap whose fighting skill are lagging because he put skill points into Tool Use for the benefit of all.

 

Other than screwing up those distribution issues, there's no way to actually waste skill points in the game. Everything's good for something, and while some things are better than others, getting things perfectly optimal isn't important except on the highest difficulty setting. If you haven't had a lot of experience with Avernum games, it's probably wise to play on Casual or at most Normal difficulty at first. Then the games are pretty forgiving, and you can try different traits and abilities just because they sound cool. Afterwards, if you're into powergaming, you can crank up the difficulty once you know what does what.

[ParsnipBake]

Wow, thanks guys. I woke up this morning to all this useful info. I should be good to go now: )

 

One quick (possibly daft) question. Why would I want to give myself trait 'disadvantages'?? I see that it raises your experience bonus. What does that all mean? Neither of you mentioned them so I'm wondering how important they are...

 

Thanks again.

 

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. Two Melee characters are a good thing, right? But wouldn't one Melee character and one Missile character (like an Archer) be more balanced?

[*i]

Experience bonuses or penalties mean you gain levels more or less frequently. In other words, taking disadvantages means more skill points faster and overall. Nonetheless, I'm not sure they outweigh the effect of the disadvantage.

 

Missiles are okay in this game, but not horribly powerful. The best strategy is to have two melee characters and then give a couple of your characters bows as an alternate strategy. Bows are especially useful for priests.

[ParsnipBake]

Brilliant, thanks: )

One last question. I was just fiddling around just now and put together a Slith Berserker, and a Nephilim Archer, along with a Priest and Sorcerer. Anyway, on starting the game the Archer seems to be allowed Berserker Rage as one of his Battle diciplines right off the bat, whereas my Slith 'Berserker' can't access that yet as his Battle Skill is only 8. I'm confused! How are the Battle Skill numbers worked out?

[*i]

Battle disciplines are solely determined by the amount of combat skills you have. +1 for each melee and pole, and +0.5 for each bow and thrown. Remember, this game is totally classless. Just ignore them from now on.

[ParsnipBake]

Aha! I'm slowly getting my head around this 'Classless' thing. Sorry All four characters represent your build as ONE Adventurer, right? Phew...Schizophrenic stuff! Never played this type of game before hence my slowly discipating confusion

 

Thanks again

[Demseinwetter]

To get back to the bows, they are generally good on every character, they don't weigh much, you have second attack in case you can't reach the enemy in one round and some Bows have bonuses, i.e. they give you additional skills. So even if you don't use them, they'll give you points in Quick Strike, Bows,... which are quite useful.

And even though the skill point distribution is a complex thing, it's always fun to play around a little and again, the game doesn't give you a horrible time on Normal. To me, the fun of the game is not so much in the skill distribution and organizing your party perfectly, it's more in the dialogue windows, because Avernum, complex and elaborate RPG that it is, is hilarious!

[Alorael at Large]

Yes, each of the four adventurers is one character. The only skills that are truly shared are First Aid, Nature Lore, and Arcane Lore. The thing to think about is the fact that your characters aren't operating on their own, they're in a four-man group, so their skills should be complementary. Making one fighter is good. Making four is probably too many, because having a mage and a priest will increase the power of fighters substantially.

 

—Alorael, who can explain the classes. They're just different preset allocations of your starting skill points. If you want to assign the points yourself, you can choose the "Custom" class. That's really all the classes are.

[Student of Trinity]

In practice there are loosely three classes: fighter, mage, and priest. Priest spells and mage spells are each very expensive in skill points by the time you reach high levels, and you'll need to hit 17 eventually to cast the top spells. Being good in melee takes a completely different set of skills. So normally you just don't get enough levels in the course of the game to make good all-rounders, and you end up specializing. Those are the three meaningful specialties. Within the practical constraint of mainly being one of those three, any character can dabble in anything. And it's often good to cross-train a bit at least.

 

If you play with fewer than four characters, which you can, you may need to have more rounded characters. Singletons often end up doing everything in the game. And you can manage this with a reduced party, because they'll gain experience faster than a full party, and also have fewer mouths to distribute skill point potions among.

 

As explained, the 'classes' listed in the beginning have no further effect on the game. They just distribute your initial pool of skill points for you, instead of the 'custom' option where you place them all yourself. But of course if one character started out as a 'soldier', with good initial combat skills and no magic, you'll probably want that character to continue to boost fighting skills, so they'll be a fighter.

 

Some people run dedicated archers, but that's only worth it if you just love archery.

[ParsnipBake]

So, I'm really on a roll now. I've followed all your fab advice to the letter and am cookin' up a storm in Patrick's Tower. Thanks I'm just about ready to buy the full version now me thinks.

 

Side note: I like some of the decisions Jeff has made control wise in Avernum 6 (See my Geneforge 5 thread for details).