Drakefyre

I would have preferred to see more interaction with all sorts of Vahnatai, not just the evil Vahnatai but more of the friendly Vahnatai too.

I also would have preferred fewer chitrachs in the Eastern Gallery and more of the "traditional" monsters of Avernum - nephilim and sliths.

I think that it would be worthwhile for Tullegolar to play some of the best scenarios (CSR 9+?) and see more of what people are talking about, but he also has very good points and is the first person I've seen to come on the boards and argue these points successfully. Props to you.

I love this thread.

Not that kind of cheesecake, silly.

And as Avernum 2 "shows", made a pact with demons.

EDIT: I prefer Exile II, where the generally accepted strategy was just to mindduel him out of SP.

For Pyrog's Lair you need to go NW from Fort Dranlon to Giant Lands.

Look here: http://www.silverchat.com/~silver/Avernum/mainmap1.html

But by Exile III, Sulfras is clearly the most powerful dragon. I'd rank them (from strongest to weakest): Sulfras, Athron, Pyrog, Khoth, Motrax.

As for the "lesser" mages, I'd go: Rone, Linda, Solberg, X, Patrick, Aimee.

For stronger mages I'd agree with you - Erika, Rentar, Garzahd.

Rentar's comeback was lame! Water monsters instead of barriers from Avernum 2, and shades instead of plagues. If she's going to come back, she should bring fire and brimstone and massive destruction! It would have been better leaving that hanging (she did say she would plot for generations) and going with darkside loyalists.

And I think something really interesting could have been done between Houghton and Starrus and that potential power struggle there. Maybe civil discord would give the Darkside Loyalists the confusion they needed to strike.

Geneforge 1, more than its successors, hits the level cap quickly. After you gain the first 15 levels or so very quickly, it takes ages to gain the next 15.

I loved Trajkov and Goettsch from GF1 - both tried to use the party for their own ends and gain control of the island. They may not have literally moved, but they tried to woo you and trick you and then kill you.

Geneforge 2 had the birth of drakons and then the eventual dark descent into GF3 and rebellion, which is in full force in GF4.

Avernum goes a different route - there is a clear hero and a clear enemy. Avernum needs a savior, and here you are. You have a motive to kill Hawthorne. You need to free and then banish Grah-Hoth. All while exploring this new setting. Great!

Avernum 2 is a great successor. There's the appropriate response to Hawthorne's assassination - war! And this theft of the crystal souls is brilliant! In come the Vahnatai - more exploration of foreign lands and you can bring peace to the caves.

Avernum 3 sees the triumphant return to the surface. A lot of people don't like the A3 plot for some reason, but I love it! The whole new surface world, people are suspicious of your pale skin, and the ultimate goal to bring your people back to the surface.

But Avernum 4 doesn't really do it for me with Rentar. I would have loved to see it go purely down the Darkside Loyalist road. There is a secret group of people in Avernum who want to take it down and you, as a member of Unspecified Services, need to find these people, discover their plots, foil them, and then destroy them. That would have been an awesome game!

They don't need any more testers - the form is down.

Unless someone tells you how to kill them or expects you to, don't try. Wait until later in the game.

A lot of happens because you don't need to do every quest and clear every area to win the game. When you try to be comprehensive and get *everything*, you gain levels quickly, which makes certain areas give low XP.

The problem is that melee is *underpowered*.

I would have actually developed the water monster angle. The fear that the shades brought was new and intriguing. But yes, I would have made those secondary to the Darkside Loyalists. Basically it would be like this:

Rentar's revenge creates chaos in Avernum. Darkside Loyalists seize the opportunity to finally reveal themselves. Party goes after Rentar, thinks everything will be done, and then finds out that the darkside loyalists are still there and threatening. Then needs to deal with them.

Put two points in mental magic, get Daze, and problem solved.

I have a feeling that Minor Heal and Heal max out at a certain level in order to make Major Heal worthwhile.

I haven't played the "Guardian" type, but melee is certainly viable. Especially alongside some of the new spells. I don't think it's been strengthened. Hard to tell when the endgame (or even middlegame) isn't done, though.

How is it broken?

I think Outcast of Redwall was my favorite.

I never play with creations unless I'm playing as a Shaper, and I hardly ever play as a Shaper. But picking up NPCs has proved useful, even though they can't match my damage they can provide me with cover.

I thought Jeff said that Avernum 5 would be smaller and set in a previously unknown part of the caves, but I could be wrong.

Oh yeah, heroic brews give invulnerability, so those are good too.

You get a new creation when you get three levels in a creation - 3 in fyora gets you a cryoa.

It's definitely worth it to put points into shaping skills.

Your spell/shaping level skill is displayed on a separate screen, which shows you that battle alphas are battle shaping, glaakhs are magic shaping, etc.

The dragons never say anything.

Try using slow and forcecage on the dark wyrms.

After a while the form gets taken down.