Old Scratch

Quote: Originally written by Ephesos: I never found Divine Retribution to be all that great... outside of A4, that is. In fact, in A3 tons of monsters are just resistant to it (either the enfeebling fails or it just doesn't affect that creature type). That, and the damage is simply inadequate when compared to Fireblast. That, and Fireblast is just more fun. Yeah, I never use status effect spells (aside from Slow) for that very reason. In fact, that's a big problem with a lot of roleplaying games, not just Avernum: It's far more efficient to cast purely damage-dealing spells, because the enemies resist the effects of status effect spells often enough that casting them is a waste of time and spell energy -- plus it takes longer to finish the fight. And the one type of enemy that status effect spells are great to use on -- bosses -- tend to be resistant to them. Like Spray Acid. Who uses that? Even at a high skill, it hardly does any damage at all. It's always more efficient to cast a Firebolt or some other attack spell, because if you just cast Spray Acid and wait for a critter to die, chances are you're going to be waiting a long time. And when you do kill him, usually you could have killed him without Spray Acid's help anyway. If Spray Acid were as strong as the Fetid Zombie acid in A3, doing 3/4 of the damage of a Firebolt on the first turn and continuing from there, it'd be good. I don't even know why Jeff continues to include it in Avernum.

Quote: Originally written by Mimir: Quote: Originally written by Old Scratch: My archer has been the most useful character Wow, really? I had an archer in my Avernum 2 party, and he was far and away the least useful of the four. Good projectiles were heavy, not always abundant, and did less damage than both my fighter's melee attacks and my mage's Bolt of Fire. Perhaps I was doing something wrong, or perhaps (cross)bows got powered up for Blades. I didn't find my archer very useful in Avernum 3, either, but Blades is low on random encounters (where you fight in a totally open field) and high on isolated enemies who are all pretty far away from you. By keeping my archer's skill fairly high, his arrows did about as much damage as my fighter's melee attacks, and a LOT more damage than Skill 3 Firebolt with well-developed Intelligence and Mage Spells, plus Natural Mage. In fact, in the cave where you have to fight through all the ice-breathing lizards (which all appeared a dozen spaces away from the party, it seemed) to reach the drake at the end, I found my archer utterly indispensable. My fighter and mage were totally worthless for most of that dungeon; the fighter couldn't get there in time, and the mage couldn't do enough damage.

I've never noticed this in Avernum 3, possibly because my priest was a warrior-priest and not quite as skillful or intelligent as my mage -- who also had the Natural Mage trait, which may have contributed to the discrepancy. In BoA, though, I haven't really been using my mage at all. My archer has been the most useful character, followed by my priest, followed by my warrior; the mage is right there at the bottom. Ice Lances and Lightning Spray cost more than in Avernum 3, and although they are useful, most of the time I can't see enough enemies to justify the cost of using them, or else my archer and fighter have already slaughtered everything. (There's no use reducing the enemies to 1/2 or 1/4 life with Ice Lances or Lightning Spray when the fighter and archer are going to mow them down in one hit at full health anyway.) In A3, though, I found the mage to be extremely useful, laying waste to the battlefield -- especially in battles with a bunch of lower level critters.

Oh, well if you'd like to know what my favorite game of all time is, that would be Fallout 2 -- I don't even need to stop and think about it. If computer games were my religion, Fallout 2 would be my Jesus Christ, Boddhisatva, Shiva, Muhammad, Buddha, etc. I've played both games all the way through at least half a dozen times each (more like a dozen in the case of Fallout 2) since the first one was released in 1997, and a better game has not been created in the nine years since. If you're a Mac gamer (or a PC gamer, for that matter) and you've never played Fallout and Fallout 2, you are doing yourself a harsh injustice.

Quote: Originally written by Garrison: Locked doors usually do not become relocked when you re-enter a town. As far as I've ever experienced, exiting and then re-entering a town (or a dungeon) in any Avernum-engine game causes all the doors to lock again -- no exceptions. I know I've seen barriers reappear, too, but only in Avenum 3 (as far as I know, anyway). Quote: Originally written by Garrison: I do not remember a single instance where it is absolutely necesary to dispel a barrier a second time, though. Just finish what you need to behind the barrier the first time. I just gave you an example of a time when I couldn't finish my business behind a barrier, silly. Quote: Originally written by Garrison: If you have not tried Avernum 4, then you might like to know that the barriers stay dispelled in it. I have noticed that (it's the same in Genforge, of course), but I'm not too sure about Avernum 4 yet. I played it for a number of hours at one point, and I'll try to play it again, but I don't think I was terribly impressed with it. It's not too bad, but I'm going to finish the other Avernums first.

Quote: Originally written by Zephyr Tempest.: There is a MUCH easier way to steal...it involves bringing up the "get item" screen, stealing whatever you want, but... slight spoiler Last time I checked, that trick was pure GOLD! Both figuratively and literally! Alas, while that is a wonderfully devious trick, it would feel like cheating to me -- although technically, if you can do something in-game without a cheat menu simply by pressing a couple of buttons, it's not really cheating.

Quote: Originally written by Clickxabbu: The fight-end-teleport glitch isn't the same as the scripts ignoring combat mode glitch. I try not to abuse either, but I'm a huge fan of the fight mode, buff, wait one round, and then step forward, trigger the horrible attack, and then use your free round to wreak havoc trick. —Alorael, who has also been known to keep skipping turns until both his fighters are not just waiting but both are also waiting with 5 AP thanks to Fast on Feet. I won't utilize a glitch if it feels like cheating. While I am aware of the ability to sneak past scripts in combat mode, I would never use it unless there was no other option. When you've been gaming as long as I have, you begin to hate cheating . . . it ruins everything. Once I've beaten a game a few times, I might just cheat for the fun of it, but not until then. Heavy manipulation of the odds using blessing spells and combat mode doesn't quite feel like cheating to me, but I usually don't do much of it until I stumble into a fight that kicks my ass and have to load a saved game. If I know a hard fight is coming after having to restore, I will use that foreknowledge to the best of my advantage! I have to say, though, that things like waiting for 5 AP to appear or loading a saved game anytime a magic lockpick breaks are things I avoid as much as possible. In Skylark Vale in BoA, I came close to saving and restoring to see what was behind every barrier and high-skill locked door (lots of those and precious few materials to breach them), but I fought the urge. I do save the game before attempting to steal anything, but at this point, I always know how not to get caught and only steal publicly if it's a great item and I have no other choice. (The Fine Waveblade near the three Vhanatai in Skylark Vale, for example).

This is something of a trivial topic, but one feature in the Avernum engine which I thoroughly despise is the fact that barriers and locked doors "regenerate" when you exit an area, even after you've dispelled/unlocked them. This bit me in the arse in BoA, when I dispelled a barrier only to discover that I wasn't skilled enough to pick the lock on the door behind it yet. And when all you have to use to dispel barriers are Piercing Crystals -- which of course don't regenerate at all -- that really sucks. Ideally, I could come back later and unlock the door after improving my Tool Use skill. As it is, I have to load the game or weep at the loss of a Piercing Crystal.

Quote: Originally written by Tyranicus: The combat mode thing is well-known. I've used it for Nethergate, the trilogy, and BoA. I'm not sure if it works in the Exile or Geneforge engines or not. If you do it the right way, you can even get into the room in the back of Erika's tower. The combat mode trick also works in Fallout and Fallout 2 (the best roleplaying games ever created), and I've known about that for years and years, but I discovered the same trick in Avernum entirely by accident. I got slaughtered in the first ambush, and so I had to load and carefully prepare myself with blessings . . . I distractedly entered combat mode, thinking my spells would last a bit longer if I cast them that way, and walked past the scripted area, which then vanished. Quote: Originally written by Tyranicus: I've also been known to push barrels and crates around. It's a shame you can't do it with chests. Also, pushing crates around is hazardous if you're anywhere near water. It is odd that Jeff added that touch, isn't it? Crates into water s a feature that almost never comes up, but it does add a nice touch to the game. I have done it a time or two by accident, though never with a valuable barrel or crate. However, I'd be willing to bet that the container returns to its original position if you exit and re-enter the area.

How did you first find Avernum? I found it on a Mac shareware site while desperately searching for a Mac game worth playing that would run on my machine. (I have already played the Fallout series dozens of times, and Baldur's Gate runs a bit slow, which I find highly annoying.) Why did you play it? Just to try it, see what it was like. I'm not sure just what caught my attention about it, but it turned out to be very entertaining and I was hooked. What is your favorite game? I've only really played most of Avernum 3 and a little bit of Avernum 1, but after finishing the first Blades of Avernum scenario, I think BoA is my favorite. It has more features, a much wider array of item and terrain graphics, and just feels more immersive. The four new character models/portraits were a great touch.

I'm sure I'm not the first Avernum player to discover this, but I take a certain manic glee in looting boxes or barrels which, in their original locations, are in plain view of the public. The solution, of course, is to push all of the containers filled with wonderful "NY" goodies into an abandoned house, shut the door, and loot the bejeezus out of them. Does anyone else have any obscure tips or tricks that they have discovered? Oh, another thing: In Avernum 3, when you sneak into Blackcrag, you get ambushed by Empire Dervishes, archers, and wizards -- unless you walk past the scripted spot in combat mode, in which case they fail to appear. I suspect that other, similar scripts can be bypassed in this manner. I also use combat mode to prevent all four characters from following the lead character into something dangerous/poisonous, which they will in normal mode. I'll go into combat mode and just send my fighter to take the brunt of mines in Blades of Avernum, too.

Quote: Originally written by Dintiradan: Usually, it involves storing your soul in a vessel (denying you of the life hereafter in return for eternal undeath) . . . For future reference, said vessel is often referred to as a "phylactery".

Quote: Originally written by Zeviz: And one more thing, I didn't notice any mention of blessing magic in your battle reports. War Blessing and Shielding spells can make any fight much easier, especially if you Haste your strongest creatures. And Augmentation can help your Shaper survive getting hit. Good luck with the rest of the game. Unfortunately, I don't yet meet the astronomical energy requirement for casting Speed (100 Energy), and I didn't have enough Essence left over after making my Thahds to use Augmentation (30 Essence). Also, War Blessing wouldn't have helped much with that battle anyway, since the Thahds could kill the bugs in a single hit; I suppose the Shaper might do more damage to the Creator more often with Firebolt (or the equivalent), but I was using Ice Crystals and a Discipline Wand, so that's a moot point. As far as Shielding goes, I decided to save my last few Essence points for Healing Craft. (There's no way I'm going to use up an Essence Pod just to regain 6 Essence.) I suppose it could be useful, but I've never noticed Shielding to be particularly effective -- meaning that three Minor Heals would probably be a better Essence investment. It does do some good, don't get me wrong, just not enough to justify the drain on my tiny remaining pool of Essence. I've given up on Geneforge 3 for the time being and started Avernum 1 instead. I'm getting frustrated with always having too much weight to carry, even when I sell absolutely everything that's nonessential, and I'm constantly dying unless the enemies are garden variety. The Roamers on Harmony Isle slaughtered the living bejeezus out of me when I approached the herb sheds. Dying constantly and never having enough AP starts to take its toll on a player. Not to mention the annoyance of the Energy and Essence requirements for many of my spells, which severely limits what spells I can cast and how often. It seems to me that I can never cast anything without having to return to town to regain Essence.

With two 21-Essence Thahds, 14 Ice Crystals, and one Discipline Wand, I easily defeated the creator boss. In fact, it seemed ludicrously easy this time around. (I hadn't realized before that using crystals only requires 3 AP). I almost wonder if I should have used up all the crystals. I think I could have survived a lot longer than I did! In any case, thanks for your advice, everyone.

Quote: I mean, didn't the "You should come with me. I could use an extra blade" conversation option imply something? (Really trying to sound helpful and not critical) Ha! Don't worry, I appreciate your input. To answer the question, yes, it did imply something, and in almost all roleplaying games, I fill up my party with the best party members I can get my hands on. Just this once, I wanted to go solo, and look what happened! Hmmph.

Quote: Originally written by MagmaDragoon: Hmmm. There something strange here. When I defeated the Boss, (as a Guardian), I had a Fyora (not so powerful, but at least she can kill a worm in a hit) and Alwan & Greta. My strategy was: Greta and the Fyora kill the worms, Alwan and I attack the Creator. So, have you tryed to use Alwan and Greta to attack the creator, and You and your creation (I suggest a Thand) the worms? I could try that, but I've been refusing to add NPCs to my party, because the game is extremely stingy with experience points as it is. In fact, for the last level or two, I've been seeing an awful lot of this: "You gain experience. (1)" Some of those (1) enemies had been giving me a run for my money, too. Therefore, Greta and Alwan are currently at their default levels. That means that the creator would slaughter Alwan (since he's melee and the creator has ridiculously powerful melee attacks), though Greta might be able to swing it with her Firebolt. You guys are probably thinking, "Man, this guy's so negative. What a defeatist!" But during my time playing the MMORPG Final Fantasy XI, I learned how to use every single dirty trick in the book, and to utilize one's abilities to their maximum potential, in order to defeat bosses. I will try what you both have suggested, and I will do my best. I'm a veteran at boss-beating, though, and in more than a dozen tries already, I have consistently failed to succeed. The outcome looks very dim; from my perspective, the game wasn't designed to accomodate lone Shapers with only their creations to aid them. Which is ridiculous, since that's basically the flagship image of the game and the one that appeals to me the most.

Quote: Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas: I think if you have enough leadership you can tell it to kill itself. That's a wonderful idea. This boss and that dialogue option remind me of Fallout; I'd be willing to bet that's not entirely coincidental, what with the Xian Skull reference to the Master in Avernum 3 and the faint similarities between this boss and the Master, the "end boss" of Fallout. (You can convince the Master to self-destruct by convincing him that he erred by making all the Super Mutants sterile. Also, the Master was a stationary head and some arms on a pedestal, and he created lots of mutant creatures.) Unfortunately, my Leadership is "only" 6. And since there's nowhere else on the entire island for me to get experience, that's exactly where it's going to stay unless I cheat. I won't play a game where I have to cheat to advance (it ruins it for me), so that's right out. As for Ice Crystals, my Firebolt does more damage than any of the crystals I own. I do have a couple of Discipline Wands and a Wand of Inferno, but even if I used all of my powerful wands, I somehow don't foresee them getting rid of him before crawlers come to assassinate me. Did I mention that my Firebolt only has about a 57% hit chance on him, and did you know that he regenrates? Yeah. "Hey, I have the only boat! If you want to get off the island, I'm going to blackmail you into killing the dragon Zacknefain first. Here's half a meat cleaver. Good luck!"

I started playing Geneforge 3 yesterday. I've cleared every single part of the first island except for the Lair of the Creator. In fact, I'm on my very last fight in that area -- the Boss Fight™. I have a level 9 Shaper. Since I've killed everything else on the island (except for the insanely hard fights in the Testing Grounds) and completed all the quests I know of, not to mention opening every locked door and chest and investigating every nook and cranny, that's about as high as I'm going to get -- I can't leave the island yet, after all. There have been some pretty darned tough battles throughout the whole game so far. As in Geneforge 1, I often feel like death is just around the corner, and I can barely carry any weight at all, which means I have to rathole stuff all over the map until I clear the enemies and can collect it safely. So I'm on the final battle, and I can't beat it. I tried creating two 21-Essence Thahds, and they're pretty strong, but I still couldn't beat the boss; I died, because it's tough trying to fend off dozens of worms while you damage the boss, who, by the way, has about a million hit points. I tried creating four very basic Fyoras; they were slaughtered almost immediately and couldn't hit anything with their attacks (which were also weak), and I subsequently died. I tried creating one powerful Atila, and that worked OK at first, but it frickin' ran out of energy after the first few rounds. It died, and so did I. A single, powerful creature is simply out of the question, because there's no way to fend off three or four worms before the worms get to my Shaper and slaughter him. So what's the deal, guys? Am I missing something? Is it just me? I started fighting game bosses in all different kinds of games as a kid in the late eighties, and this is one of the most ludicrous fights I've ever been in. I feel as though I'm no stronger than I was when I started. I can't even leave the island to gain more experience until I beat a boss . . . which I seemingly can't defeat. Any advice would be much appreciated. I haven't been this frustrated with a game (especially a roleplaying game) in a long time.

Quote: Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas: Even so, the Aramaic junk was a load of nonsense. It has no place in Christianity and a very small place in only one other widely practiced religion in the world, a.k.a. Judaism. And where did he get the "one true name" stuff from. The name "Satan" comes from the old testament, long before the name Lucifer was ever invented. Unless he is disregarding the phrases in the old testament all saying that the word of God is truth and cannot be changed in any way and that the old testament is the word of god, it's got no basis in any religion I've heard of. Which leads to another point. All the angels that have names are named in the Torah, according to the K'tuvim, both of which are part of the old testament. And even if it weren't mentioned, all angels that sit by the throne of god (as lucifer is said to have) have the suffix -el at the end of their names (eg. Gavriel Mikhael) which means god. Calm down, friend; we're talking about something I consider to be mythology. I'm an atheist, not a Christian or a Jew. What I know about the Archangel Lucifer, of the Cherubim choir (or so I thought until hearing from you), is what I have read in relevant books, in the Bible itself, or from someone else interested in angels and demons. As with all history and mythology, different people, often using wildly different sources, come up with wildly different interpretations and explanations of the same concept. The views I expressed here are correct insofar as I know. And, in my opinion, there is no such thing as "fact" when dealing with what boils down to a bunch of winged creatures that live in the sky, written about by ancient men thousands of years ago.

Quote: Originally written by Micawber: Loss of 1 point of reputation isn't that serious. Although personally I always try to avoid the divine lucre patrols (on horseback). You know, you can even pay 5000 to join the church of the divine lucre. This also decreases your reputation, so Jeff is even-handed. You do at least get left alone by the patrols (as well as a boost to magery). You're right, it's no big deal; the loss of a couple of Reputation points and a curse that I can have removed for free in Shayder aren't terribly significant. I just think the way it's handled is rather ironic. Here's a small dialogue to illustrate my point: LUCRE PATROL: "Halt, travelers! We claim this land as our own, and demand that you pay us 100 coins for passing through it!" AVERNITES: "And if we should refuse?" LUCRE PATROL: "Why then, we'll put you to the sword!" AVERNITES: "Fair enough! Have at thee, foul varlets!" (A short, bloody, decisive battle ensues.) * * * * * * * * Later . . . * * * * * * * AVERNITES: "Ho there, Temple of the Divine Lucre! We come in peace, and wish to parley with you!" (The Divine Lucre army sneaks up on the Avernites from behind.) ARMY OF THE DIVINE LUCRE: "We know what you did to our patrol, scum! Prepare to die!" AVERNITES: "More villains shall fall beneath our cold steel! Have at thee, brigands!" (After a long and bloody engagement . . .) AVERNITES: "Well, we've triumphed. However, it seems that standing up to extortionists' demands and defending ourselves from an 8-to-1 sneak attack (and near-certain death) by a small army is considered to be evil. We appear to be cursed, and the narrator has informed us that we are 'slaughterers' and 'looters'. Figures!"

[somewhat irrelevant/read if you are interested/if not skip to third paragraph]I have to admit, I almost always choose the "good guy" approach to roleplaying games, rather than the "bad guy" approach. Except, of course, when it comes to stealing everything that isn't nailed down; but the important thing is that I don't murder and loot shopkeepers and throw rocks at crippled children, nor choose "evil" dialogue options. In the Fallout games, I usually do a lot of bad stuff, but I was still careful to end up with a very high amount of good Karma. And there was a lot of VERY, VERY bad stuff that I could have done, but didn't.[/end irrelevance] So anyway, I got near the Temple of the Divine Lucre (or was it Holy Lucre?) in A3, and a Lucre patrol demanded that I pay them cash for being on "their land". I was filthy rich by then, but I'll be damned if I simply hand money over to a bunch of greedy extortionists. Since the only other option was to "Attack!" them, I did so, and justifiably in my opinion. ("Pay us or die!" will not get a good reaction from me in roleplaying games -- real life perhaps, but certainly not RPGS). After I dispatched them, my Reputation decreased! As if I'm in the wrong for refusing to hand over my money to anyone who draws their sword from its scabbard and demands payment! What a crock! And then, MUCH later, I finally was strong enough to defeat the army of priests which attacked me when I approached the Lucre temple to talk to them. ("We know what you did to our patrol! Die, scum!") After fighting for my life and barely escaping with all of my characters alive, after THEY attacked ME with a gigantic army, the game has the audacity to say that I had "slaughtered" them and could now "loot" their temple! And the game gives me a dread curse, to boot! Anyway, let's recap: Lucre patrol demands my money because "this is our land". I defend myself from their extortionism, and lose Reputation. I then approach the Lucre temple in peace; they frigging ambush me, outnumbering me 8 to 1, and the game calls me a slaughterer when I defend myself and barely escape with my life. Mr. Vogel, the lure of the Dark Side is that it is more profitable to be evil than good. It has downsides, but they should almost balance out. Avernum 3 pretty much forces you to be totally good all the time, or else. (I know that was probably your intention, but I mean, jeez.)

Quote: Originally written by St. Ashby the Martyr: A search for "ill sick" yields three threads, two of which answer the question. I found these results on my second try, after narrowing down my terms. Search didn't lead me to Alorael's post; it led me to the thread the post was in. No worries; I'm just being difficult. (Sorry!) It's just that I've been through the whole "search for a pre-existing, relevant thread for hours before starting your own topic, lest you annoy the board veterans" song and dance a number of times before. It can be a real pain, and it almost always takes vets less time to answer a repost than it takes the newie to look for a pre-existing topic that answers his question.

This was just a mild complaint, and I did manage to get through the area all right. I'm around level six now and trucking right along. One thing worries me, though: I love to loot, and 66 pounds is a pretty tough limit. Since there's absolutely no reason to increase my Strength except to increase my carrying capacity, and since extra Stun Resistance is utterly marginal for a Shaper at best, and since, futhermore, another level of Strength only gives you a whopping 8 extra pounds of carrying capacity, this distresses me. But that's all right; I'm sure I'll survive. Quote: Originally written by Nick Ringer: Oh, are you called "Old Scratch" from Pink Floyd's secret message? I love The Wall). Now that you mention it, I do remember that secret message. I didn't choose this moniker because of Pink Floyd, though, but mainly because of a woodcut (a carved wooden "stamp" depicting a scene which old-time printers covered in ink and transferred onto paper) from a book produced sometime in the 1800s -- colonial America. I forget what the story was called, but it was famous, and it featured the Devil -- aka Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, the Prince of the Earth, the Prince of Darkness, Mammon, The Tempter, The Enemy, Old Nick, or Old Scratch, of course. Another variation on that last is Mr. Scratch, and there are plenty more where that came from -- God must be jealous, because He only has a few name variations. (Actually -- and most people don't know this -- Satan and Lucifer were two different angels. You learn something new every day, right? However, Lucifer is the one true name [albeit pronounced somewhat differently in English than in Aramaic, as with all Biblical names] for the Devil.)

Quote: Originally written by St. Ashby the Martyr: Quote: Originally written by Facsimilicious: If you have any metal bars, check them. Unidentified ones just may be uranium, which diseases your entire party. Gauntlets may be Pyrrhic Gauntlets, which also cause disease. Those are the two big mysterious sources of contagion in A1 and A2. —Alorael, who doesn't think the gauntlets are cursed and who knows the uranium isn't. Drop them and everything is fine except for very angry Avernites. The search function can save you a lot of time that would be spent waiting for a reply. Not that it did in this case, but still. Self-reliance and all that. Makes you a better person. I don't think he would have been able to find this text with the search feature, since "ill" "nausea" and "hair falling out", all key terms in the message displayed by the game, don't appear anywhere in the text you quoted. Even "sick" doesn't appear; only "disease" or "contagion" would have done the trick. So what exactly did you want him to search for? The text you found doesn't make a strong case for the use of the search function.

I started playing the demo of Geneforge 1 today, and I like it a lot so far. If I decide to buy the series, I'm probably going to play them in order, so I'm starting with the first installment. However, I've noticed that Geneforge is rather difficult. I know there's an option to adjust the game's difficulty, but I don't like to use that feature if I don't absolutely have to. Anyway, I'm in Watchhill with a level 3 Shaper, and I feel like death is always only a few seconds away. The ogre-like creatures can kill my character in one hit. I tried increasing his Endurance, and I got two whole points of bonus Health! (Yay!) I'm also wearing the best armor I can find. So I keep saving the game after every single combat, because I might die in the next, and there's really not a lot I can do about it. Is this common in the early stages of the game with a Shaper, or is it just me?